This applies to some of the OCR HoN crew as well and a good chuck of why I quit playing.

idc, I play DotA now, i plan to play this when it comes out.

I read the article. Honestly it doesn't even matter that it's essentially a remake. Giving it the typical Valve treatment with stuff like

is really all that's needed imo.

HoN falls woefully short when it comes to matchmaking, so I'm hoping that Valve can improve on that.

It'll be funny when HoN players start playing this and ask what the items and heroes' HoN names are.

Well the OCR crew is all but dead, but SHZ is still pretty active (Scytheful even switched to their clan). Join us!

I realize that, but seeing as though DotA seems to specifically attract worthless immature assholes, I believe it's fathomable that Icefrog is King Of All Assholes.

Also LoL is better than HoN because creep denial is a really dumb "mechanic".

I will likely be one of the people reeducating HoNfgts

also

Creep denial isn't a stupid mechanic. The strategy of laning falls into several decisions that you must make constantly; do you try to harass enemy heroes? Go for a kill? Try to get more xp/gold for yourself? Or deny the enemy xp/gold? It's fascinating, tactically. What sucks is the fact that denials and last-hitting is a rhythm game. In the past I've advocated something where instead of XP/gold going to the last hit, that you have to do, say, 25% of a creep's lifebar in damage (or more) to get that credit.

Creep denial is a thing that rose out of the WarCraft 3 engine being incapable of removing it without significant alterations to the game.

It is in the game and you have to work with it, so the strategy is there - but to argue that games aren't better off without it is just pandering to nostalgia. It's the same reason that this thread even exists - people who play MOBAs are too pedantic to maybe admit that some things need to actually be changed from what they know.

Saying I'm just nostalgic for DotA doesn't make sense, because I've never played DotA. I came into HoN (my first MOBA game) with a completely fresh perspective. I had no idea what I was doing. Also, the argument that denial was an unavoidable artifact of the WC3 engine IS true, but that doesn't mean that it's bad. Mouse control of your hero was also unavoidable, but even though we have more options now (WASD for example) that doesn't mean those other options are better. WC3 only had 3 stats, but that doesn't mean we need more or less than 3.

What people don't like about creep denial is that it's a timing game - a pointless, twitch-based mechanic interfering with an otherwise interesting tactical decision. The ability to attack your own forces thus depleting the opponent of XP/gold and drawing in enemy forces is great for strategy. Sometimes you want to do it, other times you want to push the lane forward. Creep denial isn't something that you should always do 100% of the time, because if you did, you'd sacrifice your own XP and your lane might be adversely affected (either due to creep positioning, or your lack of focus on harassing/ganking enemy heroes.)

So, what needs to be changed is how you EXECUTE the decision... in other words, it shouldn't be a needless twitch game-within-a-game where you have to estimate your attack power compared to a creep's remaining life and your own attack animation time. The entire decision or tactic shouldn't be removed just because it wasn't done that well in DotA/HoN.

Hopefully they can continue using the same kinda shop system that S2 developed for HoN because that was a huge improvement over the dota shops.

interested at what may come.