like malz?

tensai, i agree. talon, wukong, vayne, and riven seem similar to me. however, you go into the rest of the heroes and there isn't anyone with a close-the-gap, escape mechanism, and stun/hard CC (that i can think of) - that is, a true assassin character that can get in quick, slaughter the enemy fast, and get out quick 1v1. the closest is xin but he's a hardcore glass cannon and has no escape. that said, talon, wukong, vayne, and riven are built totally different since one's mana-based melee, one's tanky dps, one's ranged dps, and one's CDR assassin.

Malzahars ult only lasts 2.5 seconds. WEAK!

It does do a lot of damage though.

Also, it's not so much that the new champions all have different builds, but they basically bring no new concepts to the table. If you compare a champion like Talon to champions like Karthus (global damage ult and casting after death are both really cool concepts that hadn't been used before) and Orianna, you'll see how Talon basically just mix and matches a few old abilities with a very very slight twist. The problem is also that none of the new champions have any truly unique roles on a team, and in most cases get outperformed by older champions that fulfill the exact same role.

Yep, agree 100%. Overall their champion design is pretty weak. Skarner, Leona, Wukong, Talon... all very forgettable. Riven seems marginally more interesting but not by much. Less champs like that, more like Blitzcrank, Orianna, Twisted Fate, etc.

I'm not on the front page yet? Lame.

i can agree there. it's a creativity thing, though - with Rise of Immortals, LoL, DotA, HoN, and all the other MOBA-style games out there, how much creativity can really go around, you know? there's only so many unique concepts that can be designed before you're really scraping the bottom of the barrel.

i'd love to see new techniques, but i think they're running out of ideas :< at least, ideas that fit within the framework of their specific game (a la why zircon's character's Q wouldn't appear in LoL).

You'd be surprised by how much creativity there is even in DotA, despite being on an outdated engine. One of my favorite DotA heroes, Tinker, has two high damage nukes and a powerful AoE push skill, but his ultimate completely changes his playing style, because it resets all his cooldowns, including those of most items.

This, among other perks, gives him the ability to use the Dota equivalent of Teleport nonstop, which makes him an amazing pusher and lets him farm superfast to the point where he can actually carry. Each of his abilities is extremely simple conceptually, having no CC whatsoever, but his playstyle is completely unique and deceptively deep.

There was actually a 20 page long thread on the LoL forums (it eventually got locked, but there's a newspost about it) where people started complaining about the blandness of LoL champion designs after watching a HoN hero spotlight (this one)

I don't think the items do enough. The only extremely interesting active ability on an item that I can think of atm is Shurelya's, which gives a big speed burst to the team.

Where are activated effects -- Stormspirit, Tablet, Hex, Kuldra's, Astrolabe, etc.? They are on summoner spells kinda (Heal, Ignite fill these types of roles) but more things like them would be great. Tablet (the ability to push characters around the map) seems like an especially big gap...there's nothing more fun than jumping the river.

not what i meant. what i'm saying is, if LoL got a Tinker knockoff, you'd complain that it was a ripoff. and it'd likely be a bad ripoff since the things that make HoN fun don't work in LoL, making his character design a bit off from what it could be.

there's only so much originality that can go around, and it's spread thin on lots of different games in this genre.

Well I'm not saying LoL should have a Tinker knockoff (it already has it btw, namely Heimerdinger, so you were right about it being lame :<), but I meant that both HoN and Dota are still releasing heroes that bring entirely new concepts to the table instead of rehashing older abilities like Riot does.

One of Dota's newer heroes can copy spells from enemy heroes with his ultimate, and another one can turn into a snowball that grows as it keeps rolling and drags allies along with him. Considering that they're achieving all of this on a 10 year old engine, I believe there's still plenty of room for creativity in the genre as long as you think outside of the box.

Nobody would say LoL is ripping off DotA or HoN for using mechanics that existed on heroes in those games. I mean, basically 99% of the LoL cast already does that. But more importantly I think anyone could come up with at least 5 new, interesting Champion abilities or mechanics. HoN is doing that every two weeks. Here are some things I came up with just off the top of my head:

* A skillshot "Reflect" ability that, if timed properly, would repel projectile attacks in a random direction.

* A Champion that is constantly followed by a small train or group of creatures. These would have some very basic uncontrollable attacks and low HP, but are immune to AOE. The champ's abilities would depend on sacrificing the creatures for various effects (throwing them, planting them on to objects, batting them at the enemy, etc.) New creatures would be regrown periodically or perhaps faster if you pick up old ones.

* A champ themed something like Heimerdinger, but focusing on generally defensive rather than offensive structures, and with more control. For example, dropping a TF2 Engineer-style supply 'orb' that allies can stand around to regenerate, planting a ward that does not itself give vision but creates an orbiting object that spirals out and gives vision over that area (and can collide with enemy champs.)

* A champion with high-risk, high-reward feint-type abilities. For example, one ability might be used on a target enemy hero and will stun them after 3 seconds IF you are able to fulfill a condition (for example, depleting 15% of their health bar.) Perhaps the ability to feign death or manipulate your own health bar to make it harder for the opponents to gauge your status.

* A new kind of "resource" (like Energy, Fury) that increases based on distance traveled, or something to that effect. Maybe a champ themed around speed, running or even dancing, encouraging them to weave in and out of battles, gank more, and so forth. Call it Rhythm, Adrenaline, I don't know. Would create some interesting gameplay though.