[Rozovian]

The obvious problem with stems being that we can't actually go and screw with the settings of the source samples/patches, but it might help with the mixing side of things.

[ShrackAttack]

Meteo, I tend to think/hope stuff like this is (for the most part) only in your head. I believe most people can be over critical of their own music to a point. I know I still do this and I also have complained in the past about tracks I wrote that just felt too stiff, as if every instrument just stuck out too much. There's certain songs that just don't seem to "have" it and they don't really feel like music, at least not to the person who wrote it. It's like there is some secret knowledge you somehow haven't figured out, but most everyone else already seems to know. So I feel your pain :P. However, I still haven't come to a definite conclusion if it is at least partially real or just 100% in my head either.

This will be a pain in the ass, but you may want to try finding a good example of what you want to imitate as far as the transients go and literally try to remake that piece 100%. Spend an entire week on it if you have too adjusting every little thing until it is exact and figure out what you did.

Also for certain samples that actually have dynamics, try keeping the velocity super low, but raise the volume so it balances out. It will usually keep the soft transient you're going for but still have it stand out in the mix.

On a similar note, I'm still trying to find a piano sound/setup that I just really like. Literally everything I use almost always sounds too harsh to my ears and I can't seem to get the full piano sound I want either. I've been mainly using EWQL pianos

[Moseph]

Originally Posted by ShrackAttack

Also for certain samples that actually have dynamics, try keeping the velocity super low, but raise the volume so it balances out. It will usually keep the soft transient you're going for but still have it stand out in the mix.

Speaking of this, I often link a low-pass filter to my expression/volume automation so that when a sound gets softer, it also gets more muffled. (Specifically, I do this with VSL instruments because the VSL sampler makes it really easy to set up.)

Meteo, I'm not sure whether this addresses your issue or not, but the thing I'm hearing in the mixes you linked that makes the instruments sound -- I don't know, too substantial -- is I think more a stereo imaging/illusion of depth thing than a transient/ADSR thing. It doesn't sound like the instruments are in a real acoustic space; it sounds like there're all the same distance from me and all playing through guitar amps that are pointed at me. My thought on this is to maybe try playing with stereo spread plugins and carefully controlling the stereo spread on different frequency ranges (e.g. bass stereo could be less wide than the treble range). I'd really have to play around with it myself to see for sure what would work.

[SnappleMan]

From my experience it all comes down to the most basic of mixing tools: volume, panning, EQ. Worrying about transients and whatever else is fine once you get into the real details of it all, but you get your basic mix done with just those 3 essential tools.

When you go into ADSR editing you're really working on the timbre of the sound and that should be mostly taken care of before you even begin to get "into the mix". As stated before in this thread, the key is in choosing the right sounds before you start mixing.

Also you have to be able to listen to the mix without bias towards that which you're trying to solve. If you focus on the synths then they'll always be either too loud or too soft or too SOMETHING other than "right". So learn to take yourself away from focusing and start listening to the entire picture.

[avaris]

Ok Meteo, listened to the examples. Two big things jump out to me:

1. Transitions, or lack there of (in your tracks it just feels like, oh hey there is a new sound in here; and oh yeah this sound was just dropped. It makes the adding/subtracting of sounds and parts feel jarring)

Some good tutorials w/ audio examples:
http://audio.tutsplus.com/tutorials/...d-transitions/
http://audio.tutsplus.com/tutorials/...earch_index=10


2. The sounds themselves, mainly the realistic instruments sound a little too robotic. This makes them stick out in a bad way. (that added to the lack of transitions makes your example songs focus the listeners attention in an area that is strong)

Some quick tutorials on improving the composition and feel of natural instruments:
http://audio.tutsplus.com/tutorials/...earch_index=12
http://audio.tutsplus.com/tutorials/...earch_index=16
http://audio.tutsplus.com/tutorials/...-to-3d-mixing/

Also anything by this dude:
http://audio.tutsplus.com/author/george-strezov/


I hope those help a little bit. There isn't just one trick to solve your problem. It is a multitude of smaller problems adding up to create a larger glaring one.

[Meteo Xavier]

Well, that particular project was full of really old songs I did on commission for game guys who, for the most part, really didn't know what they wanted or were doing (and expected me to puppet their visions of music), and so I just wanted to clean up the mixing and literally get it out of my system.

All the same, I still could use all the help and teaching on transitions and non-robotic feel that I could possibly get, so I definitely need to take a look at those links. Transitions and realism I'm still fairly weak on.

Thanks Avaris

[Garpocalypse]

Originally Posted by avaris

Ok Meteo, listened to the examples. Two big things jump out to me:

1. Transitions, or lack there of (in your tracks it just feels like, oh hey there is a new sound in here; and oh yeah this sound was just dropped. It makes the adding/subtracting of sounds and parts feel jarring)

Some good tutorials w/ audio examples:
http://audio.tutsplus.com/tutorials/...d-transitions/
http://audio.tutsplus.com/tutorials/...earch_index=10


2. The sounds themselves, mainly the realistic instruments sound a little too robotic. This makes them stick out in a bad way. (that added to the lack of transitions makes your example songs focus the listeners attention in an area that is strong)

Some quick tutorials on improving the composition and feel of natural instruments:
http://audio.tutsplus.com/tutorials/...earch_index=12
http://audio.tutsplus.com/tutorials/...earch_index=16
http://audio.tutsplus.com/tutorials/...-to-3d-mixing/

Also anything by this dude:
http://audio.tutsplus.com/author/george-strezov/


I hope those help a little bit. There isn't just one trick to solve your problem. It is a multitude of smaller problems adding up to create a larger glaring one.

Favorited. Thanks alot Avaris, some really good idea builders in those.

[timaeus222]

There are some things I find important when creating an (as) seamless (as possible) blend of instruments:

- Internal EQ for editing the EQ of the source/patch, rather than using external EQ to edit a static source/patch. Sometimes a sound is just missing a frequency, and it doesn't sound quite right. You can't just add it back using external EQ, so it's nice to be able to customize the patch's original sound.

- Reverb. I know this sounds general, but there are some facets to reverb that give a sound a realistic feel if done correctly. Probably the best reverb tool I've found is ArtsAcoustic Reverb. Although it costs money, it's completely worth it. You can use it to edit properties such as Spread, Room Size, Diffusion, Damping, Wet/Dry ratio, etc.
http://www.artsacoustic.com/images/aar_front.gif

- EQ. Essentially, make sure each instrument has as much in each frequency range as necessary; no more, no less. Let's say if the mids in a lead were less than -8dB loud, then the lead sounds like it's missing the mids. In that case, you have too little mids, and you're going to have to bump it up enough so it sounds full enough, but not too much so it takes up the space where other instruments could fit, like band passed pads for backup, or a decently loud, dynamic arpeggio that constantly shifts frequencies and, at some point, passes by the mid-frequency range.

- More about EQ. Make sure each instrument's EQ overlaps with others' EQ as little as possible, so that you don't get a "muddy" sound in a specific frequency range that's overloaded with multiple sounds of similar timbres. A trick I like to use is to put an EQ on the master track so I can evaluate what's going on. If I can see everything that's going on and recognize exactly when each instrument is playing, then the EQ is either really good, close, or already there.

:D