[megadave]

It's cool derrit. I think everybody gets a little pissed off and lets it ride on the internet sometimes (just look at my post history). It really is a sad situation. Though I will agree with whomever who just stated that bands shouldn't really have to deal with this issue - playing an instrument is hard enough - it's still a loss of life.

[Brandon Strader]

Originally Posted by AngelCityOutlaw

The metal community, being the ironic sheep that most of them tend to be

You're dumb.

Originally Posted by The Derrit

metal divided by chance of metal fans being mature (or having any sort of common sense/idea of how to be a normal human being) = impossible.

You're dumb.

Originally Posted by Gario

People get knocked offstage like that all the time at a metal concert. It's a shame someone died due to that, this time around, but in all seriousness calling that manslaughter is a little extreme.

You are correct.

Originally Posted by DaMonz

So my first thought is that the poor guy shouldn't have been able to get on the stage in the first place. I don't think it's the responsibility of the band to handle situations like these.

You are correct.

Originally Posted by Clefairy

Basically this. If they had security at the show, then said security didn't do their job. If they didn't, then they should have.

Security are not miracle workers. Many of them don't even have a ton of experience. You can walk in off the street and be hired for the job. They make around $7.50 an hour. They are not to blame any more than the band is.

Think of it this way. The stage is West Virginia. The band are holding rifles instead of guitars. Someone trespasses on their property, they've got the right to shoot and defend themselves. Not only was what Randy did the right thing to do, but he barely pushed the guy if you watch the video. He's a weak little bastard, I figure most of the actual pushing came from the security guy. Either way, in that scenario, they were doing the right thing.

This guy broke the rules 3 times.

I worked security at Mayhem Festival a couple years ago. The bands playing on the second stage I was working were All That Remains, God Forbid, and Trivium. During All That Remains' set, I had just finished catching a crowd surfer who had knocked my glasses off, and subsequently stomped on them when I set him down. They were squashed flat and I was unable to fix them quick enough, so I went back to work without them, barely able to see. One of the fans must have noticed this, because a bit later he ran passed me and hopped up on the stage. I didn't see him until it was too late but 2 other guys caught him my the belt and pulled him off the stage backwards. Someone put him in a headlock and they booted that guy from the venue. All the way out, no second chance. No third chance.

So is the band responsible for what happened to this idiot kid? No. Is the security responsible for giving him another chance after what he did? No. This idiot kid is responsible for breaking established rules 3 times in a post-Dimebag Darrell world, and not having good enough balance to land on his feet instead of his head.

[OA]

The comparison to what you are claiming would be some random person reading some of the old and vile unmod posts and thinking that is what OCR is all about. Sure, there were some terrible people posting there, but it was not what the great majority of the site is about. There are extremists and crazies in every religion but they do not speak for the majority there either.

There are thousands and thousands of metal bands. Almost anyone in the world can just start a metal band. Just because you've seen a few idiots spouting off doesn't mean the whole community is like that.

[BardicKnowledge]

I can tell you that there is certainly a small subgenre of metal music focusing on racial hatred.

However, to judge a very large group by reading a faq/wiki page on one small subgroup just makes you look foolish. It would be similarly foolish to say that all Christians are bigots because you saw the Westboro Baptists protesting something.

As far as metal players being nuts, there are a TON of musicians who engaged in incredibly risky and deviant behavior in the 1970s (when metal emerged) across rock genres. Example: I wouldn't describe The Who as a metal band ever, but Jim Morrison did crazier stuff than anyone from a significant metal band (we can argue if peeing on your audience during your rock concert is more or less crazy than eating a bat on stage if you like, I suppose).

[Bahamut]

Treading into more offtopic waters, I agree with OA. I have been to plenty of metal concerts and many of the concertgoers I have met are pretty good people - heck, even many of the band members for various metal bands I have met are extraordinarily humble. I have heard plenty of stories of great things many band members have done for their fans as well. I've also helped and seen many others help those who fall during mosh pits and get them up on their feet quickly to save them from injuries.

Generalization about a culture it seems you don't know much about is pretty unfair overall.

There are some shitbag metal fans out there to be sure, and I've seen and heard of them as well (certain black metal bands are notorious for promoting some of it) - I've found them to be by far a minority in my experience though.

[Brandon Strader]

Plus I want to point out that they're reporting this kid was in a 'metal band' himself (even if it was just a tiny garage hobby thing), so he should have known that what he was doing was wrong.

[jnWake]

I wonder why everyone takes the time to respond to people that are clearly trying to start a flame war.

The situation is quite sad. The guy that tried to get on the stage was clearly wrong but some people try to make it like he deserved to die in order to defend the musician. I'm not familiar with the name of law charges in english so I hope the guy isn't punished harshly.

[AngelCityOutlaw]

Originally Posted by Brandon Strader

You're dumb.

You're dumb.

I've been hanging around with various metal communities all across North America and Europe since I was a kid and I can safely say I have witnessed more blind-following, musically narrow-minded elitists in that subculture than punk, goth or anything else I know of.

There is a lot of positive things I can say about the metal subculture too though.

[theshaggyfreak]

The metal community as whole is a strange place. I used to be more into it when I was in college in the early to mid 90s and from what I hear on the front lines, things aren't much different today. There's a lot of cool people out there in the scene but there's also way too many guys who are dicks for the sake of being a dick. This doesn't go for just the people in the crowd either. Bands are rude and discourteous to other bands like it's a badge of honor.

As much as I love me some metal and support all of my buddies who are still doing it, I've never been amidst another scene where there's more general hatred. Thankfully, I do still occasionally see pull each other out of the floor of a mosh pit. That's the way it should be.

I honestly don't have a hell of a lot of respect for those who climb up on stage knowing full well that it's off limits. This sort of thing doesn't only happen at metal shows, though. Lots of booze plus a rowdy crowd always equals someone doing something stupid. Add the given percentage of plain ol' stupid people and you have more problems. It's the nature of the beast. Stupid happens.

With that being said, I don't really say whether or not the dude is guilty of any wrong don't since I wasn't there. Even though there might be video footage, that perspective can be deceptive. If I blame anyone, I blame the venue. They should be providing a safe environment. If your'e worried about kids jumping up on stage, you either need professional security around the stage and have it barricaded. The kid should have never been able to get up there in the first place.

[The Derrit]

Originally Posted by OA

The comparison to what you are claiming would be some random person reading some of the old and vile unmod posts and thinking that is what OCR is all about. Sure, there were some terrible people posting there, but it was not what the great majority of the site is about. There are extremists and crazies in every religion but they do not speak for the majority there either.

There are thousands and thousands of metal bands. Almost anyone in the world can just start a metal band. Just because you've seen a few idiots spouting off doesn't mean the whole community is like that.

yeah i get that. so where are the nice people? like literally all i want from this is someone to tell me i'm wrong and show me *HOW*. it seems like the people who have been a part of the metal community agree with me, such as:

Originally Posted by AngelCityOutlaw

I've been hanging around with various metal communities all across North America and Europe since I was a kid and I can safely say I have witnessed more blind-following, musically narrow-minded elitists in that subculture than punk, goth or anything else I know of.

Originally Posted by theshaggyfreak

The metal community as whole is a strange place. I used to be more into it when I was in college in the early to mid 90s and from what I hear on the front lines, things aren't much different today. There's a lot of cool people out there in the scene but there's also way too many guys who are dicks for the sake of being a dick. This doesn't go for just the people in the crowd either. Bands are rude and discourteous to other bands like it's a badge of honor.

As much as I love me some metal and support all of my buddies who are still doing it, I've never been amidst another scene where there's more general hatred.

those both seem pretty concise.

Originally Posted by theshaggyfreak

The kid should have never been able to get up there in the first place.

yes. that is definitely the point of this conversation, he really shouldn't have been able to.

so WHY with any other genre of music does this type of thing not happen? yes people have died at other concerts, absolutely, but come on if the status quo at a metal concert is to run into the middle of a brawling crowd (a.k.a. moshing) it really seems pretty pointlessly violent. metal concerts are meant to be out of control and dangerous by design.