[Anorak]

Well, I'll be the next opposing vote then. Not that it will matter, since I have no mixes on the site and the poll is already heavily tilted in the other direction.

Personally I don't have any problem with drawing up a legal policy to protect Overclocked. It really is a good idea to expand the proceedings beyond a handshake agreement. But like Kai, I can't agree to the termination rights that favour OCRemix. Maybe it's my predisposed nature of assuming that everything will go wrong, but I can't help but imagine a scenario where mixes will be eternally trapped in a glass cage; their makers want them down, but because they once had an altercation with the site staff or their reasons are declared "too selfish", their request denied.

From here on out, god help you if you didn't read that other topic.

I'm guessing that this policy is being put into place because of the exodus, virt, etc.. If so, I can't help but feel that everyone who has ever (and ever will) submit a mix here is being punished for their actions. And consequently it feels like we are all being lumped into that group. Like you're all assuming that as soon as we tire of the site, we'll pull our mixes and be gone. Not all people are like that.

On Wikipedia (wait, I'm going somewhere with this) they have a policy called AGF. If you didn't bother to click the link, it stands for Assume Good Faith. Now, OCRemix and Wiki are completely different sites, with different content, rules, yada yada. But the rule is an interesting one. Summarized, it describes that when a good intentioned edit is made that is incorrect, one should NOT assume it is vandalism. You should assume they are trying to help the site.

The idea of a mix getting removed helping Overclocked is completely bizarre, of course. But take the rest of that policy into account. If I may rephrase it into terms which apply to our current situation:

"Not everyone who is requesting that their remixes be removed is trying to harm Overclocked Remix."

DJP went over a few reasons why someone would want their mixes removed in the other thread. In the same post, he said, concerning remix removal: "The actuality is that we don't make any profit and do this for fun, so "hurting" us per se won't work, and the end result is that fewer people will be exposed to your music." Then why is the one sided termination clause in the contract anyway?

To wrap up, and summarize this wordy mess, I just wish that the site would have some more good faith concerning its mixers. We all aren't plotting a mass exodus on a VBulletin Board somewhere. Having this clause in the agreement is going to keep a lot of remixes on the site, but it's going to drive a lot of mixers away too. I like this site a lot and I just hope there is some reconcilliation between those two numbers. But I'll have to be in the second group.

There, that's my reason. I know nothing about law, but you asked for it, and there it is. I hope you can forgive my emotionally vague, idiotic, embarrassing, and drawn-out ramblings. Now you know why I didn't post before.

P. S. When this passes, please place it where every remixer can see it - right before they submit a mix.

[Dhsu]

This license may be terminated at any time if both You and OverClocked ReMix agree to the termination. OverClocked ReMix reserves the right to refuse license termination.

I still hold that the second sentence is redundant. :P

I'm curious, though...does this mean that a situation could occur in which OCR wants to terminate the license, but the ReMixer doesn't? :D I don't see this EVER happening, as it's a rather silly scenario to be honest, but the implication here is that OCR would be stuck with the distribution rights (ohgnoes!).

[Tenucha]

I would agree to these terms.
They seem fair to me for both the artist and the site.

I have included a couple remixes in a video but gave credit to the artist and (OCReMix) in the credits (I'll get the video online for viewing purposes and then get the attetion of the YouTube group).

Originally Posted by Anorak

The idea of a mix getting removed helping Overclocked is completely bizarre, of course. But take the rest of that policy into account. If I may rephrase it into terms which apply to our current situation:

"Not everyone who is requesting that their remixes be removed is trying to harm Overclocked Remix."

On this note... if a remix is violating any form of applicable laws including copyright infrignment... then it would benefit OCR to remove the conent from the website.
It doesnt mean it will happen or not however this gives the site the right to remove it.
An instance would be if a submitted remix were to pass and get hosted here and, later on down the road, someone from the team or just a listenier realizes that there is too much original work being used (this is just for aguments sake... I know the Judges Panel wouldnt allow a remix thats so obvious like this haha) from the original source.

I dont think this constrans the artists or anything... I think it gives everyone a heads up.
This really is no different from any other "Dont cross our content policy" on any other website or community's Terms of Service.

[DragonFireKai]

Originally Posted by Dhsu

I still hold that the second sentence is redundant. :P

I'm curious, though...does this mean that a situation could occur in which OCR wants to terminate the license, but the ReMixer doesn't? :D I don't see this EVER happening, as it's a rather silly scenario to be honest, but the implication here is that OCR would be stuck with the distribution rights (ohgnoes!).

It is redundant, and I'm fairly sure that some of the remixers who got their mixes ganked during the lockdowns would have prefered to keep them up.

[Dhsu]

Nowhere in the license does it imply that OCR is obliged to distribute the ReMixes. And removing a mix doesn't necessarily mean relinquishing the right to distribute it. So I really can't see a situation in which OCR would actually want to terminate the license.

[Broken]

I like the idea of a quasi-legal document that spells out some of the un-asked questions that I've had about this site for a while. I may or may not ever submit anything here (or I should say, I may or may not ever be accepted here,) but if I ever were to submit something I now have a better idea of what I'd be getting myself into.

And thank you for clarifying some of the more intricate details of this agreement. I'm sure there is still plenty of grey area left and other details that could be covered, but I know that I have no authority or experience with this area of music (ie. rights, legalities) so I'll just leave my opinions as stated.

[Shadow Wolf]

I think the idea here is this: If I submit a mix to OC ReMix, I am saying to Dave and the judges that I think this mix is good enough to be hosted as an OC ReMix. In turn, if this mix makes it past the judge's panel and onto the site, that mix is officially accepted as good enough material to bear the name of OC ReMix. That is an agreement entered into between the site and the mixer.

Therefore, if a mixer comes back later and simply says "I think my mix should be removed for this and such a reason," the mixer is basically telling Dave and the judges "I think, in retrospect, that it was a mistake on your part to allow this mix to be posted." But if Dave and the judges allow it to be posted, what the mixer personally comes to think of that work later is, to a great extent, irrelevant. Dave and the judges said it was good enough. It will remain so, even if your personal taste and/or musical skills have moved past the style or complexity of the mix.

They're not saying there will be a refusal to remove a mix if, for instance, a mixer wishes to update it with a version they feel is better. I think what they're trying to avoid here is a situation like JD Harding, who (in my understanding of the situation) had 7(?) mixes on the site and consistently requested removals of his own materials because of his personal taste.

As such, I endorse the new policy. Nice work.

[Kanthos]

The only thing I can see that might need changing is that the submission licence implies that mixes can be distributed by OC Remix without using the OC Remix name.

[Shael Riley]

Though I'm made uneasy by the irrevocableness of the agreement's terms, this second draft is, at a glance, seemingly comprehensive in its attention to preserving the safety, stability, quality, longevity and expandability of the Overclocked ReMix project; and well-written for clarity. Offsetting my fear, though, is my trust in Dave's, and, (to a slightly lesser extent) the Judges' and Judges-to-bes', intentions to not fuck up my shit, or the shit of others. Considering the afformentioned,

I approve.

[DCT]

Looks a lot better than the original draft. I can rock with this.

-DCT