Turtle
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Hey again, just thought I oughta bump this topic rather than make an entirely new thread for very closely related subject matter.
As it turns out, my first assignment of the term for my aforementioned study is to find 5-10 recommendations that my school's library should make available in the way of actual books on digital sound. Mixing, mastering, etc. Basically, what I was asking about for tutorials I'm now asking about for books: what's the shortlist (or long, if the "shortlist" is short relative to 5-10 items) of recommended books on digital audio?
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Yeah, it's definitely more work for me at the moment, since I don't enjoy mixing and mastering the way I do composition and arranging. I'm less than great at both, mind, but at least I enjoy one.
But I am willing to put in the work if I feel it's actually teaching me something, hence my putting together this independent study.
http://soundonsound.com is your friend too.
Lots of cool production articles there.Definitely going to be using this, if only because my professor also has recommended it before.
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Well, rather than learning any specific DAW, per se, I'm also looking at the principles involved in a good mix. Like, how to EQ most effectively, good uses of stereo field, etc. But concepts that aren't limited to just one piece of software.
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Hello, OCR, making a semi-annual post on these forums before slinking back to obscurity.
That post being about my upcoming independent study at school, self-explanatory in its title: "Audio Mixing and Mastering." Making a mix sound professional has long been my biggest failing as a primarily digital musician, and I haven't made any new music in quite a while (mostly due to an insane workload this past semester), so I'm hoping this course can get me on my feet again.
Which brings me to this community. Logging in on a whim as I research some good studio headphones, I almost immediately came across Zircon's FL Studio 101 topic. I thought "hey, this might be good 'curriculum' to use in my study next term, I wonder if there's anything else OCR can point me to?" So that's my question. What would you folks say are good, preferably "curricular" digital music tutorials out there, especially related to production values? I'd say I could probably swallow something intermediate, but am also open to beginner stuff since I undoubtedly have holes in my experience.
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Hm, that might just be a doubled octave where the bottom pitch is too low, rather than the reverb. Or I'm just not hearing the difference when I raise the low cut.
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Got the Fluid R3 soundfont after seeing Zircon use it to good effect in his stream. I can't mix/EQ/stereo nearly that well, but it's definitely fun to compose with.
I wrote this with primarily Fluid R3. I'm at that point in the process where I've been working on it for so long that I can no longer effectively discern what parts of the production need work. Doubtless I'll take another look after I've had a break but I also wanted to post it here.
Thoughts welcome.
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I've always been wary of too much reverb in my mixes because I'm well aware of the mud it can track in and drag all over the aural carpet. So this might be too little.
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I have the demo version of Fruity Soundfont Player, which actually led me to find sfz in the first place. Unless I'm really missing something, it's gonna go the way of all demo software in this DAW as soon as I close the project.
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When you say that the bass is the main offender, do you mean that you can't hear it, or it's too overpowering? From context and from my own struggles with it, I'd guess the former.
I don't actually have ASDR envelope controls on my soundfont player (sfz)... or did you not necessarily mean the controls on the player itself?
And oh my I can hear that low/mid muddiness now, looking back. Amazing what stepping away for just a few hours can sometimes do if you've been "in the midst" for too long.
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At this point I think I might just be too afraid to spring for better quality samples that may be easier to mix. I mean, here I am using SNES soundfonts for pity's sake. That said, I want to train myself more. It's tricky, is all.
More panning stuff re:suggestions, volume levels changed. Little less widened, maybe too much so the other way again...
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Out of curiosity, for what length of time have you been producing music? I've been at it in one form or another (albeit only the most basic of General MIDI early on) for at least four years and should probably know more than I do. >_>
What is actually meant to be the lead is the piano/pan flute you hear coming in during the next iteration... which may be too late, looking at the tracking bar, but then I do have a habit of introducing leads later rather than sooner. The thing about the brass does make sense, but I'm wondering if unpanning it alongside changing up the first pad might be overdoing it in the other direction.
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Gah, where do you learn this stuff? This is mostly the first I've heard regarding theory on where to pan stuff, other than a few tips on percussion...
In any case, either I don't have "strings" in the conventional sense or I don't have "pads" because whichever they are, both are labeled as "Synth Strings." How should those be panned, then?
The brass actually isn't even as high as 40% left, let alone hard-panned.
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This is what it sounds like having panned a couple more things to center, moved the bass up an octave to make it audible, tweaked a couple percussion things, and took off just a little of the high range.
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The timpani is actually panned center already. The bass is where it is mostly so it's more audible. Which I suppose speaks to the mixing suffering in other areas if I should be able to hear it in the center... but then, mixing is by far where I need to improve.
On a related note, did you think the high frequencies were a bit too emphasized? I didn't even realize they were until I toned down the higher range on a whim...
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A little more like so, maybe? I hadn't actually attempted too much stereo-ification(?) at that point yet.
Also added a bassline.
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Lately I've really been intrigued by SNES sounds. Super Metroid being one of my favorite styles of this category, I find myself using its Soundfont for compositions.
This one, though, is the first that makes exclusive use of Super Metroid instruments, and nothing else.
Any thoughts? Still shaping up, but I'd say it's turning out fairly well so far. Still needs a bassline. I do feel that I have yet to grasp that "true SNES" feel - e.g., William Kage - but I'm not entirely sure what I need to do still to capture it.
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Chiptune!
http://truttle.bandcamp.com/track/mega-crisis
Mega Man inspiration, not sure how much of it shows from an outside perspective.
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This, and mostly because of the riffs beginning at about 25% through rather than because I knew anything at all about how chords worked back then. I think in a lot of ways General MIDI helps you care more about the composition and arranging because production values are a lost cause anyway.
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Exactly what it says on the tin. I'm by no means very active in this particular community but I have stayed somewhat (still probably not to a sufficient degree) active in writing music. You'll find what I've created in the past couple of years on my Bandcamp artist page:
It's all free to listen to. For what it's worth, I hope at least some of it is entertaining.
What I'm looking for here, especially, is insight into just what my problem is with production values. To this day I haven't come even close, in my own estimation, to making something of the sort of quality that might be accepted on this site as a remix submission. And I've been into digital music for several years now (the appropriate smiley to sum this up would be
).Where am I going wrong? I need to learn to EQ? Get better samples? Better mastering plugins? Just plain be more meticulous across the board? Is it all in my head and I'm not as bad at this as I think I am? That'd be wonderful to hear too!
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Well, you don't want to use SNES spc soundfonts if you have something "better-sounding" lying around.
I love the sound of synthesizers, warm analogue strings, and stuff like that, so I often eschew realism because I know I don't have the budget or samples to pull it off all that convincingly. You always have to play to your strengths.
My FL "mentor", whom I learned a lot of my starting-out stuff from, told me that 99% of your sound from the DAW will come not exactly from your samples or instruments, but from filter effects and how you use them. I have found that this is the case, and I tend to just, mix, match, and tweak the preset filter options to get things that sound interesting or good to my ear.
Heh, as far as my strengths go, I often use chiptunes because it allows me to arrange to my heart's content with comparatively little focus on making the mastering sound "realistic." Synth is deeeefinitely my friend. That said, I do want to be a bit more versatile with "real" instruments and need to know what I'm missing in terms of those filters (even after a few years of this, I'm afraid it probably just comes down to inexperience) that make the base sounds perform better. This is because, down the line...
When you want to make money. That's when you start using quality samples. When you want to make a job of it.It would be fantastic to make a job of writing music for games or film or TV; heck, even commercial jingles. Long shot though it may be.
Composition skill is a never-ending staircase--there is always up. In the beginning, each step to a new level is small and easy, you can make breakthroughs with relatively minimal energy and effort. But for me, it takes months or years to work to the next level. There is always up and always someone to be inspired by, always. This aspiration really has nothing to do with making money.
Higher quality virtual instruments are about saving time and reaching higher production value with less effort OR designing production sounds with more flexibility.
You spend money on virtual instruments when you want to make money. If you're not interested in making money, then the only reason to do it is for your own ear pleasure--and that's not a decision other people can make for you.
And let me tell you what: It doesn't end. I am constantly sacrificing entertainment opportunities and travel opportunities to acquire tools.
Even now I'm contemplating buying a bicycle or buying 2CAudio's B2 reverb plug-in. I live in LA and I don't have a car, so a bike would be nice--but B2 will let me do this specific thing I want to do with my existing tools that I haven't been able to do with any of my current reverbs (at least not to satisfaction).
Do you want to live like this? Like me? Constantly under pressure to sound your best as quickly as possible? Because this shit stresses me out.
But also, it SOUNDS AWESOME!
Are you saying there's no real balance to be had? Like, you can't get moderately good-sounding samples and then learn a moderate amount of production (honest question, coming from someone who has tried for as long as possible to go as cheap as possible)?
I do want to learn more of how to make something sound good given the tools already available. But I'm skeptical that, for example, some guy working with the 128 general MIDI instruments would never need to just plain "get better software" to improve past a certain point.
I agree with Dan.I think that the other posts are coming mostly from a musician's point of view rather than considering the listener's point of view. I think both must be considered. How does it sound to your ears, but....
If you're making music for someone else or lots of people are going to be listening to it, you need something that sounds very good. It's like, if some indie game developer wants as close to Hollywood film soundtrack as possible, but you can't afford to book the Hollywood Studio Symphony, you should be able to sound as close to the real deal as possible. If you can't, you will probably lose out to the person who can.
So yeah, in that kind of a situation, you can screw around trying your best to make some soundfonts sound as real and "high quality" as possible, or you can just buy a sample library that makes it easier to sound like how the client wants the final product to sound.
The only magic "sounds super awesome AND real" button is a killer live performance and that shit don't come cheap n' easy.
Hits spot-on, because in the future I would probably like to compose for some smaller game projects to really learn what it's like to build a soundtrack.
It seems like it'd be a better, if more grueling, exercise in the long run to just push harder at making a better pot with lower-quality clay. Which in turn makes it a question of "how does one learn this?" Not really a helpful question, and one that gets asked here countless times a day, but nonetheless I find that even being no longer as self-taught as I was a year ago, something's not clicking... I may not want to hear it but maybe I'm just not applying myself enough?
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I'm right now seriously considering buying LA Scoring Strings and/or the Sample Modeling brass set to improve my orchestra template, so my thought process may be helpful to you.
IMO, the time to upgrade your samples is when you can discuss the specific ways in which your current samples fall short and the ways in which the new samples will address those failings, and you are at the point where spending money to fix the situation actually seems like a good idea to you. For example, some of my motivating issues are that my current VSL brass section has a lot of awkward velocity layer breaks that make it a pain to program, and I'm not comfortable with how the horns and trumpets sound when used for solo lines. And my VSL strings have neither divisi nor the lush Hollywood-style timbre that I want.
For discerning sample problems vs. production problems, it may help to step back temporarily from whatever samples you're currently using and try to write a track using, say, just several instances of one synth. Don't try to be realistic in any way; just try to make something that sounds good. If you find that you still run into the same sorts of problems that you do when using samples, then your sticking point is probably production technique and/or composing ability.
This is good insight. Especially the last paragraph. I should probably give it a try and simplify, simplify. Then if it's the production that's the problem, I'll have to find some excuse for not getting any better at that for a year or so, despite having taken at least two college classes in that time about digital audio. >_>
The reason I'm even bringing up that it might be my samples is that the only element of my package that I've paid for since getting FL Studio is FL Studio itself. I'd like to think I've done pretty well for myself on what I can find for free but the cheap stuff is cheap for a reason...
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Have you tested the headphones on something besides the computer?Test on another device besides your computer to make sure, but most likely it's the cord becoming loose (or broken, but probably just loose). The wires are tiny so they're not easy to solder back on, but someone who fixes electric stuff for a living can do it much cheaper than the brand's official service.No mid means either the left or the right audio channel is phase-inverted. I guess you could use the fruity phase inverter plugin on your master track to listen to your tracks properly.
Google suggests this might be a jack problem. Test it on some other audio devices, if there's still no mid, try replacing the jack (or the entire cord if your headphones have a detachable one).
Yep, I had tried them on my mp3 player as well. Same result. I guess I should see about replacing the jack or cord. But general consensus seems to be "it's not the expensive part that sucks," so small mercies, I guess.
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As in, as opposed to good production ability? Is there ever a point where you've learned what you can with sub-par instruments and hit a ceiling with how your work sounds? I ask, of course, because it's recently become relevant to my experience. I will be the first to admit that I am possibly the worst digital musician I know at the technical aspects of audio production, but now I'm also wondering if it's reached the time where I should shell (heh) out for Actual Instruments, the kind for which you have to pay Actual Money Dollars.
More importantly, how do I tell? Accurate self-evaluation is even harder than the work I'm trying to evaluate. I could just say "I'm in a rut and don't know how to EQ," which is true, but I'd be joining in the collectively whiny "how do i shot web" without being conducive to improvement (and by "web," I mean "good production values for my music"). In the interest of trying to make this a legitimate thread for advice on the issue - instead of simply voicing my frustration at not seeming to improve in the last year - is this a familiar phenomenon? Does anyone else find that it was better in the end to stop working out with crunches and pushups and just get the darn Bowflex?
And most importantly, have I just posted a sentiment that's come up half a dozen times already? Probably. Stay tuned to hear the answer.
8-bit Spellbook: A Game Soundtrack
in Post Your Original Music!
Posted
Time for my bi-annual post to these forums, I guess!
First off, yeah, I know it's not "real" 8-bit music. Second, even though it's video game-related, the game in question is my own project rather than a title whose soundtrack I'm remixing.
https://truttle.bandcamp.com/album/8-bit-spellbook
Some tracks were a bit rushed, but it came together all right considering I wrote the album for FAWM a few months back. Lemme know what you think.