Voltrox747 Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Just want your thoughts on the matter. It seems to me that most of the great platformers of the snes era have gone downhill in quality, especially play control, and others are dead altogether (I hear nintendo won't be making another 2D metroid). For me, kirby has been a big disappointment, since the main reason I liked superstar was that you had a good variety of moves for most of the powers, and the newer games took many of those out and dumbed them down a bit. Megaman Zero also seems to be a poor replacement for the X series, though I'll admit that many of the bosses were much harder. The X series itself is also much worse after going 3D. What do you think of newer games compared to their older counterparts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OverCoat Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 yes, at least until Cave Story 2 comes out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrumUltimA Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 yes, at least until Cave Story 2 comes out Quoted For Emphasis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antipode Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Some games will never outgrow their roots. Just look at mario galaxy for instance - there are many points in that where the perspective shifts to side-scrolling and you play it just like a classic mario game. Plus, New Super Mario Bros. was incredibly successful so I don't think they'll just ignore that - they'll probably make more. As for Metroid, I don't think the 2d games are over. The Prime series is finished and Retro is moving on, and I definitely don't think Nintendo will attempt to create a Prime-like FPA without Retro's help simply because the experience would be very different (and simply because I don't think Hunters-like games are going to completely hold up the series). I don't personally think Nintendo will abandon the side-scrolling metroid format that was so popular even through like 2004 or whenever Zero Mission was. It was a successful format that they left behind only because Retro was making the popular Prime games at the time. Don't be at all surprised if you hear something about this rumored Metroid Dread within the year. I don't know about many other franchises (oh, Contra 4 comes to mind, and the new Sonic Rush games), but I don't think side-scrollers are dead. Perhaps you'll only see them rarely, but they were so popular that I'm sure they won't be left behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zircon Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 No, it's not dead... primarily because of the GBA & DS. Megaman ZX is excellent overall, and I've heard Advent is even better. Castlevania games have been going very strong for the last 5 DS/GBA games or so. While I haven't played them, the new Sonic games for GBA/DS are supposedly good as well. Plus, Contra 4! I don't know if you count this, but XBox Live and the Wii's Virtual Console have revived interest in many oldschool games too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMT Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 I'll agree that 2D gaming is in a bit of a decline, but it's by no means dead. The Megaman Zero series was fantastic, and ZX seems to be continuing a similar level of quality. I really really hope there's another 2D Metroid though, because the 3D ones just aren't the same. Even so, there are still some great 2D games that have been coming out, like Contra 4, the DS Castlevanias, and that one Chrono Trigger looking RPG, for example. Sure, there could definitely be more, but it's something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BardicKnowledge Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Megaman ZX Advent was pretty good, as was the (slightly old now) Castlevania duo for DS (heh). Kirby Squeak Squad's gimmick of combining powers was pretty cool (I really enjoyed ice bombs), but I agree that we need large movesets in a Kirby game. I see 2-d platforming re-emerging via WiiWare and Xbox Live Arcade -- or at least, I'd like to. EDIT: Great minds think alike, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zircon Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Guys, just remember we're talking about 2D platforming - not 2D gaming. 2D gaming is unquestionably thriving, especially with the flood of casual games out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1337 1 Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 While ever flash, handhelds and the like exist, as well as open source and other programs (things like "Game Maker" come to mind) exist, no. There are so many platforms that make extensive use of the genre, especially to appeal to the casual gamer. Maybe on the console it might be dead, but no way in hell is it dead outright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltrox747 Posted January 16, 2008 Author Share Posted January 16, 2008 good to hear about the metroid series, I thought they were going to stick with the prime style games from now on. I haven't tried the ZX games yet, mostly from my disappointment with zero. It felt like you couldn't dash as quickly as in the X games (though this was probably because of the smaller screen) and the extra weapons he got were mostly useless. I miss the armor upgrades from X, especially the ninja armor in X6. I also loved how Zero got extra moves instead of selectable weapons, giving him more of a smash bros feel. I'll agree that contra is still going strong, along with the advance and DS castlevanias (though collecting souls takes way too long). Anyone miss mischief makers? Now THAT was some fun play control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Jarna Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 So long as Nintendo continues to make handhelds, the platforming genre shall NEVER be allowed to die. Heck, there's always some new quirk to be added - Canvas Curse and Yoshi's Island DS are the ones that come immediately to my mind... Also Flash games, as someone mentioned earlier. Oh, and "I Wanna Be The Guy". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Israfel Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Oh, and "I Wanna Be The Guy". And frankly, if I Wanna Be The Guy can't kill 2d platformers, nothing can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triad Orion Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Personally, I think that once Mega Man Zero got its kinks worked out by its second game, that series really was a great entry into 2-D platforming. Until Zero 4, which took a couple of steps backward, in my opinion. Mega Man ZX is excellent, and Advent improves on it, even if my opinion of Model A is much lower than that of Model ZX or even Model X. Sonic Rush, New Super Mario, and the Symphony of the Night style Castlevanias have also proven to be supremely addictive and lasting. Also, Dracula X Chronicles on the PSP sticks out as Old-School 2-D platforming still surviving. The remake of Rondo of Blood is stupidly hard as Richter but extremely satisfying at the same time. I love it. So no, I don't think the genre is dying, nor do I think it's in any sort of decline in quality. I look forward to more of these games with time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walrii Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 2D Platforming isn't dead, and I don't think it'll die (like adventure games kind of have), but it certainly is being replaced. Let's face it, people aren't interested in how 2D graphics and gameplay when we have such amazing 3D technology. 2D graphics will always have something special that 3D graphics never can because they can be beautifully hand drawn and animated. 2D graphics are art but 3D graphics are just graphics. Yes, some games look pretty beautiful but it isn't the same. We all know the Playstation 3 and XBOX 360 (and even the Wii) are capable of some SUPERB 3D graphcis. I sometimes wonder what things would be like if they used that processing power to create truly beautiful 2D games that looked like living paintings. Also, even if 2D platformers aren't as common today, people still like to mess around with the old ones (which are still great fun): http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1797226 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devyn Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 It's not dead, but I think there should be way more 2D side-scrolling and platforming games on home consoles. Viewtiful Joe, Odin Sphere, Alien Hominid, and Super Paper Mario are all great. Back around 12 years ago, when everything went 3D, developers and gamers just assumed that the natural transition for everything should be 3D, which is wrong. A lot of the attempted 3D revivals of games failed because those games were never meant for 3D in the first place. Old school 2D gaming + new technology = Fun. By the way, I am so getting the Vanillaware Wii game / Odin Sphere sequel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vidilian Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Who'd love for a new 2D Metroid to be announced? Not for the DS though, the Wii. Obviously they'd be able to go all out with the graphics. Maybe even make the graphics 3D but gamplay 2d like Smash brothers. I agree about the Megaman Zero series being great. Zero's a much cooler character than Megaman ever was. Plus the art for that game was incredible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shikigami Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 no, and i dont think it ever will be, since its far superior to anything 3D. Who'd love for a new 2D Metroid to be announced? I certainly would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devyn Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Zero's a much cooler character than Megaman ever was. Bull shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeepChild Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 I'd have to say 2D platforming is alive and well. I'd argue it is in large part due to the success of the handheld market. The DS has been a haven for quality 2D platforming releases, many of which have been mentioned in this thread already. I think Castlevania: Portrait of Ruin deserves special mention, as I've enjoyed every bit of that game from the graphics to the gameplay. Oh, and the soundtrack is spectacular. I'd love to see a new 2D metroid on the Wii (sans motion controls, I want old school), but I'd be just as pleased with a DS release as it has proven a very capable system (sans touch controls, I want old school dangit!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Author Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 I don't know if you've seen these 2-D platformers for PC that use a keyboard and mouse setup? You know, you use WASD to move, and you aim the gun using the mouse. I see that as the future of Metroid on the Wii. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayc4life Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 I don't know if you've seen these 2-D platformers for PC that use a keyboard and mouse setup?You know, you use WASD to move, and you aim the gun using the mouse. I see that as the future of Metroid on the Wii. Agreed, I seen this method used on a flash version of Portal (which is brilliant I must say) and Stickman Sam (possibly a parody of Serious Sam using stickmen?) and both of these employ that control scheme rather well. Wouldn't be a bad idea for Metroid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vidilian Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Yeah, great idea for the Metroid control scheme there. Speaking of Nintendo franchises that could return to their 2D platforming roots, Zelda could be a candidate. I played Adventure of Link a while back and it was better than I thought it would be (too damn hard though). For the new one hey could basically just rip the controls and model for Link in Smash brothers (if it was a sequel to Twilight princess) but the B moves would be interchangeable depending on what items you've got equipped. I think it would help out the franchise a lot since its definately gettin a little stale. Just an idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramaniscence Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 There's a LOT of 2D platforming in Mario Galaxy. Where were you guys for that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkeSword Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 I've seen a few games try to implement it and to be honest, it was really confusing controlling a guy and aiming a reticle at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltrox747 Posted January 17, 2008 Author Share Posted January 17, 2008 A few of you have mentioned games that use 3D graphics for 2D gameplay. Personally I think this is a bad idea for the most part. In many cases, such as the new super mario bros, the 3D graphics look much worse than good 2D sprites would and did. Also, the 3D graphics tend to make it more difficult to differentiate between background objects, foreground objects, enemy fire, and whatever else is on the screen. I'm sure those of you who have played the newer contra games or space shooters have noticed this. Even some games that are not viewed from the side can look much better with well drawn sprites than 3D models. Final Fantasy Tactics, Disgaea, and many other Atlus games are good examples. Anyone else agree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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