Final Fantasy VII: Crisis Core

[The Author]

. Its just the fact that it fit in perfectly. Coincidence or not, it is still pretty amazing

When you write a polished story (or a polished turd, really) you create a world bigger than what you show. It's kinda like you're looking through a window, there's more to outside than just what you see, and a good author knows that.

It is in no way amazing, because if they hadn't created that backstory, they would have used another element. They could make an amazing dating sim right now and make it fit with the game's bordello and tropical resort.

And you know what, it still doesn't make FF7 great writing, it's above average but not by much. So many plot elements in there were tired when they were used, it's not funny. Amnesia guy, traitor but actually an ally, tragic hero, lost his wife, tragic hero, lost his parents, tragic heroine, loves main character, tragic hero, lost everything. They reused similar stereotypes in the same game for Christ sake. And the whole "we know you're lying but hey, you might have amnesia so lets accept your lies" that was BS. The whole Cloud / Zack storyline was botched just to keep a semblance of surprise for the player, but that's piss poor writing since it forces characters outside of who they were. Tifa knew the truth and she said nothing until Cloud remembered? She's portrayed as brutal and impulsive. If you were to look at this with a critical eye, you would see that the game is pretty much swiss cheese.

[Bleck]

Which is why CC was better.

The story actually made sense. Until it got to Sephiroth going nuts for no reason - but that was covered in FF7, so there you go.

[Halt]

When you write a polished story (or a polished turd, really) you create a world bigger than what you show. It's kinda like you're looking through a window, there's more to outside than just what you see, and a good author knows that.

It is in no way amazing, because if they hadn't created that backstory, they would have used another element. They could make an amazing dating sim right now and make it fit with the game's bordello and tropical resort.

And you know what, it still doesn't make FF7 great writing, it's above average but not by much. So many plot elements in there were tired when they were used, it's not funny. Amnesia guy, traitor but actually an ally, tragic hero, lost his wife, tragic hero, lost his parents, tragic heroine, loves main character, tragic hero, lost everything. They reused similar stereotypes in the same game for Christ sake. And the whole "we know you're lying but hey, you might have amnesia so lets accept your lies" that was BS. The whole Cloud / Zack storyline was botched just to keep a semblance of surprise for the player, but that's piss poor writing since it forces characters outside of who they were. Tifa knew the truth and she said nothing until Cloud remembered? She's portrayed as brutal and impulsive. If you were to look at this with a critical eye, you would see that the game is pretty much swiss cheese.

You prove an unbelievably good point, none the less, it will always be one of my favorite games, you see. I played and beatin the game as a child 11-12ish So it has more sentimental meaning more then anything. Like the game ChronoCross, Its not that great of a game but i see that, Which I also own in my personal collection. My friend Ben, whom is playing FF7 as we speak is willing to buy one for $150.

I found my copy for $50. Hell for a game I seemed to love so much as a child i bought it. still a great game in my eyes.

my top 2 games are FF7 and ChronoCross. I feel bad for putting up in my top two. i have never beatin ChronoCross. I beat the dead sea, mem card went through the wash, and that was all she wrote. Never completed it. But, i dont know. I guess i cant say its not that great of a game, since i never completed it.

[The Author]

I still love FF7, it's not a master piece, but Ilove it with all its flaws.

[Shadow Wolf]

I doubt that the all the backstory of FF7 was as fleshed out in 1997 as it is now. So to answer the initial question, I would say no, in 97 they didn't plan for Crisis Core.

However, because of the nature of the story in FF7, there were many, many places to plug in an extra story tangent. You jump into the middle of an ongoing story, right from the beginning of the game. What's Cloud's story? That was FF7. You have this massive company dominating the entire world. How did they rise to power? There's Before Crisis. What about this Zack Kid he hung with back in the day? We only saw flashbacks of that in the game. There's Last Order and Crisis Core. What happens after Sephiroth is beaten? Advent Children and Dirge of Cerberus.

I don't think Square initially planned for the mind boggling popularity of FF7, but since it had far and away the most enigmatic (and hole filled) plot of any FF game ever, they unintentionally created a cash cow within a cash cow. You flesh out all those tangents as people demand to know more. Like RD said, they have a general idea of all the story, but they may not really clarify it until people really want it.

[TheHands]

As a writer, I can honestly tell you that you know more about each of your characters than you usually do about yourself. Even the most minor details can come into play, let alone a back story. While some characters in the spin-offs were obviously made for those expansions only (think of the ones without any depth, and the ones with a story so thin that it's probably got plot holes built into it), the vast majority of the characters in FFVII were written with back stories almost as expansive and dynamic as the game.

No spin offs are ever planned, for anything. You need to test it first to make sure it can hold its own before trying to milk it for more. If you plan it ahead of time (especially almost ten years ahead of time, from when production on each game was), then it's a sign of overconfidence, stupidity, or poor planning. None of these things applied to Square at the time when it came out, even if Final Fantasy was already a reasonably successful series. However, that doesn't mean that they can't happen easily if you want them to.

I didn't bother to read anything beyond the Tolkien comment, so if I'm repeating someone, then I apologize.

[Abadoss]

I doubt that the all the backstory of FF7 was as fleshed out in 1997 as it is now. So to answer the initial question, I would say no, in 97 they didn't plan for Crisis Core.

However, because of the nature of the story in FF7, there were many, many places to plug in an extra story tangent. You jump into the middle of an ongoing story, right from the beginning of the game. What's Cloud's story? That was FF7. You have this massive company dominating the entire world. How did they rise to power? There's Before Crisis. What about this Zack Kid he hung with back in the day? We only saw flashbacks of that in the game. There's Last Order and Crisis Core. What happens after Sephiroth is beaten? Advent Children and Dirge of Cerberus.

I don't think Square initially planned for the mind boggling popularity of FF7, but since it had far and away the most enigmatic (and hole filled) plot of any FF game ever, they unintentionally created a cash cow within a cash cow. You flesh out all those tangents as people demand to know more. Like RD said, they have a general idea of all the story, but they may not really clarify it until people really want it.

Very true. A lot of times writers will create a world that they weren't expecting. Based on what's there, the world can often be expanded without a great deal of difficulty, as long as continuity is preserved. Readers and fans tend to be the first in line to expand that world - i.e. the Star Wars and Star Trek universes for two examples. Supposing they didn't plan Crisis Core in advance, it's not difficult to imagine them being able to later see a potential expansion point and capitolize on it.

[Atomic Dog]

*possible spoilers*

So, I just finished Crisis Core. What an absolutely amazing ending.

OK - now, don't get me wrong. I loved the character idea behind Genesis - but man, that guy never shut up about that stupid poem. I mean, I appreciate the fact that it was about him - but man, I would have liked at least ONE scene where he wasn't blathering on about it. That said, there was some really great lines in there that tied in so well to the smallest minutae of the game. My favorite was, "The arrow has left the bow of the goddess." Anyone besides me beat Minerva? (of course you freaks did. It's not a win unless it's 100% completion, right? ) Way to tie it into her freakin' limit break, of all things.

Cissnei - what's her deal? We never see her ever again in FF7 and FF:AC. Is her character there just to torment our imaginations? ("I never got to tell him my real name.") Or, is she secretly someone else that I haven't picked up on yet? Someone told me it's Jessie in FF7 - but I don't know if I buy that. Another told me that it was Elena - but I buy that even less than I do Jessie.

Zack Fair - man, they sure did his character credit in Crisis Core. I mean, really. SO, SO good. But boy oh boy... I mean, you knew he was going to die. He had to. But I gotta be honest, I didn't expect him to die the way he did. Shinra really killed the crap out of him.

A+ for giving so much emphasis to the history of the Buster Sword. It almost makes it seem wrong that Cloud quickly abandons it in FFVII as soon as he finds something better.

I loved the completely unnecessary inclusion of a young Yuffie. And they really did right by her too. She was just as adorable as she was in FF7. (Personally, my favorite character from FF7.)

I'm not sure if I approve of the retconning they did of the Turks. They did this a bit in Advent Children too. I mean, they weren't bad bad guys in in FF7, but they certainly didn't have the admirable qualities they got in both AC and CC.

Can someone tell me why the PSP didn't put as much effort into the rest of their games as they did this one? The visuals and soundtracks were on par with freakin' Advent Children for christs sake. And not just that final scene. God, that scene where Genesis fights Sephiroth (and Angeal) on top of the Junon cannon? That was so good I created an extra savegame right before it, just so I could keep rewatching it.

And of course, they just couldn't help but tease us with the remade intro to FFVII - which makes us all drool for a remastered version of the game which we'll never get. Why Square-Enix? Why would you do that to us, and make us go back to the blocky graphics of the PSP1?

The one downside is the same downside that affects all Final Fantasy games. If you play for completion, by the time you get to the end of the game, you're so freakin' overpowered that the ending becomes a joke. In FF7, FF8, FF9, FF10, and Crisis Core I had to intentionally handicap myself in the final battles, just to make them interesting (and make them last long enough to see the badass limit enemy limit breaks.) But Crisis Core was really bad, because of the Mission System. In my playthrough, Zack was cutting through EVERYONE like butter by Chapter 4 - just because those missions would give me high-grade materia and level-ups outside of the storyline. Once I got my hands on Costly Punch, the "Very Hard" missions were a cakewalk.

Anyway, Crisis Core was awesome. Now I'm going to go watch Advent Children - just because I want to see that scene at the very end where Zack waves to Cloud. Aww yea.

[Flare4War]

Agree, agree, agree. Especially about the Buster Sword. I really enjoyed how they tied its significance into the story but had verbatim the same sentiment as you concerning it being so quickly discarded in FF7, at the least it should have been upgraded or given special powers at the end of the FF7 so it could be an endgame weapon. Still, I enjoyed the history behind it.

I really didn't give much of a hoot about Aerith is FF7. Cool character but not as cool as Tifa. After playing through Crisis Core though I was a little more pissed off at Sephy for goring her.

All in all I thoroughly enjoyed Crisis Core. Best RPG I've played in a very long time, Mass Effect being a very close second.

[Gollgagh]

Agree, agree, agree. Especially about the Buster Sword. I really enjoyed how they tied its significance into the story but had verbatim the same sentiment as you concerning it being so quickly discarded in FF7, at the least it should have been upgraded or given special powers at the end of the FF7 so it could be an endgame weapon. Still, I enjoyed the history behind it.

Ultima Weapon v12

or something

[K.B.]

I loved the completely unnecessary inclusion of a young Yuffie. And they really did right by her too. She was just as adorable as she was in FF7. (Personally, my favorite character from FF7.)

Woof.

Well ok, I haven't played Crisis Core, but woof at her being anything more than bearable in FF7. The only worse playable character, in my opinion, was Cid. F-ing douche. Shaddup and make me some tea you slave-woman!!!!

I don't think the Turks were played up that much in AC, though. They happened to fall on the right side that time, but they were still Rufus' thugs.

AD, have you seen Last Order? It's extraneous (if you've paid attention in FF7 you'll have inferred the basic points that are presented), but since you're talking about how Zach died and liking how much of a badass he was then you might enjoy watching it.

I really didn't give much of a hoot about Aerith is FF7. Cool character but not as cool as Tifa. After playing through Crisis Core though I was a little more pissed off at Sephy for goring her.

Aeris was aight but Tifa was better. And yes, they could have switched bodies and Tifa still would have been better.

[Gollgagh]

The only worse playable character, in my opinion, was Cid. F-ing douche. Shaddup and make me some tea you slave-woman!!!!

wut

you're kidding right

cait sith had to have been the worst

OH HAY I'M A SHINRA SPY OR SOMETHING AND I TELL SHINRA EVERYTHING THAT YOU GUYS ARE DOING BUT I CARE ABOUT YOU REALLY I DO THAT'S WHY I CONTROL THIS ROBOT CAT RIDING A GIANT MOG THAT'S REALLY NOT THAT POWERFUL ALL THE TIME BUT WHO CARES ABOUT THAT I'LL TAG ALONG WITH YOU ANYWAY

Cid was just a male tsundere

[Flare4War]

Cait Sith was without doubt the stupidest character. Cid played his part well and even had a cool story behind why he was so rude to the girl. At least there was some humor behind Cid. Anytime I had to do storyline involving Cait Sith it felt like torture.

[Bleck]

Crisis Core is a better game than FFVII in every possible way

[Atomic Dog]

AD, have you seen Last Order?

Heard of, but never saw. Because of my extreme prejudice against subtitled movies. Particlarly from Japan. However, I will get over this for an hour or so to watch this - even though that gibberish of clicks and whistles they call "Japanese" literally makes my ears bleed.

I'm 2 minutes into it, and it already seems pretty awesome. (Would it kill them to dub it though?)

[Flare4War]

It is because it is new game design but the reason the storyline is so good is because it is derived off of FF7 which has a great story behind it.

There really isn't any point in saying that it's better because they play off of one another so well. The reason Crisis Core is so good is because of the story it prequels. Moreover, Crisis Core does nothing to detract from FF7 on the contrary it strengthens the entire plot of FF7.

[Atomic Dog]

It's extraneous (if you've paid attention in FF7 you'll have inferred the basic points that are presented), but since you're talking about how Zach died and liking how much of a badass he was then you might enjoy watching it.

That is an accurate description. I did like, however, that they filled in the lines that came just before Zack in the truck saying, "Just kidding, I wouldn't do that to you."

Kinda makes you wonder who those other Turks were. I didn't see a Cissnei in there, did you? (MAYBE, possibly, the girl on the far left - but it doesn't quite look right.)

[Bleck]

Kinda makes you wonder who those other Turks were. I didn't see a Cissnei in there, did you? (MAYBE, possibly, the girl on the far left - but it doesn't quite look right.)

Assuming you're talking about Last Order, the big group of Turks is the cast of playable characters from Before Crisis. One of them is indeed Cissnei.

[Native Jovian]

Final Fantasy has an amusing habit of making backstory characters more awesome than the actual playable characters. Zack is more awesome than Cloud. Laguna is more awesome than Squall. Jeckt is more awesome than Tidus. FFIX dodges this bullet, but only because Kuja was an angsty effeminate sissyboy -- in terms of sheer accomplishments he certainly kicked more ass than the party did. (He stole Bahamut and then used it to blow up a bunch of shit! Badass.)

I haven't messed with any of the FFVII stuff besides the original and watching Advent Children, but from everything I hear they basically take advantage of this to make main characters that are more awesome than usual.

[Bleck]

Final Fantasy has an amusing habit of making backstory characters more awesome than the actual playable characters.

Agreeing with this. There needs to be a prequel to FFX that follows the shenanigans of Braska, Auron and Jecht.

[LuketheXjesse]

Would it kill them to dub it though?

Dubbing is not always a good thing.

[zircon]

Gotta agree with AD on all counts, CC was friggin' amazing. I actually didn't even bother with most of the side missions - I was so engrossed with the story that I played more or less straight through, with a few missions here and there. I think the ending was absolutely heart-wrenching. If it had been just one big cutscene, it wouldn't have been powerful. But man, once that scene started where it was Zack vs. the army, and the music switched to the guitar/violin theme... I knew it was all over.

The use of the DMW during the ending was also brilliant - as Zack is dying, his life is flashing before his eyes, and by the time he's so broken that he can barely stand up, he can only think about that one image of Aeris. So sad... man, WHAT a game.

[Native Jovian]

Agreeing with this. There needs to be a prequel to FFX that follows the shenanigans of Braska, Auron and Jecht.

I'd rather see a FFVIII one that followed Laguna, Kiros, and Ward, but I'd probably play a FFX one too. Granted, we were lucky enough to actually play some of the highlights of Laguna's story (<Laguna> *yells at the voices in his head to shut up* <Waitress> *runs away*), but I'm sure that there's all kinds of hilarity that we didn't see between "visits". Added bonus: a FFVIII one wouldn't be forced into an ending where everyone dies. Good times!

[DarkeSword]

Threads about games go in Community, not Off-Topic.

Merged this with the existing Crisis Core thread.

[Gollgagh]

but it's not just about CC :\