The Pezman Posted May 2, 2008 Share Posted May 2, 2008 My clunker of a PC laptop has given me so many problems that I'm about ready to cleave it in half. I need a laptop (as opposed to a desktop) for purposes of notetaking in classes and easy portability. Fortunately, my 21st birthday just occurred (no thread ) and my parents have agreed to pay for part of a top-of-the-line Macbook Pro (which I'll get in June, when it's revised with the Montevina chipset). I've railed against Macs for years, but they are becoming harder and harder to ignore. I like to say I will be a self-hating Mac user. One of the many perks of owning the latest Mac is the ability to still use Windows and any programs in it. However, I don't want to bother with a drive partition, since I will try and keep all the utilities and files within OSX that I can. As such, I'll use VMWare Fusion to virtualize into Windows. I'm pretty sure I'll be able to play games no problem this way, but what about mixing? Does the low latency of OSX's core audio transfer to FL Studio in Windows? How easy will it be to transfer finished wav files back and forth? Should I focus on VSTs for Windows or Mac? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analoq Posted May 2, 2008 Share Posted May 2, 2008 I use VMware Fusion on a MacBook Pro-- but I only use it for Win development (Visual Studio/SQLServer) Moving files back and forth is easy, your home folder just shows up on the Windows desktop which you can drag files into. The main problem with virtualization is that you'll have the CPU/RAM/Device overhead of OSX while you're using Windows. With dual-booting Windows has full access to resources, which may be better for gaming and music production. It depends on what kind of performance you expect to get. Obvious question is-- are you unwilling to try something other than Fruity Loops? If you have a Mac, making music in OSX would be ideal, and you have some great software to choose from. cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pezman Posted May 2, 2008 Author Share Posted May 2, 2008 I'm certainly not unwilling. I'm still new enough in all this that I could go anywhere. I've experimented with Reason and Logic before. But people extoll the virtues of FL left and right, so I wanted to see whether I could still retain access to that program with a Mac. It's really a matter of what is best for a noob to focus his efforts on. As for the overhead, I hope that dynamic resource allocation, the absolute latest chipset, high speed dual core processing and restriction of intensive programs within OSX during virtualization will make running VMWare Windows a silky smooth experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sengin Posted May 2, 2008 Share Posted May 2, 2008 Well, if you're getting a dual-core CPU, the virtual machine should run on a separate core from the OSX OS processes, so you shouldn't have much of a problem with overhead (depending on the clock speed of each core). My roommate uses VMWare and has a quad-core, and I'm pretty sure the entirety of the virtual machine is run off a separate core than his default OS (Vista at the moment, used to be Ubuntu). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkeSword Posted May 2, 2008 Share Posted May 2, 2008 If you're still a noob to mixing and you're going to end up using a Mac, then just learn to use a native Mac application. I mean I'm pro-FL all the way, but you're still at that stage where you're not really locked into an application like someone like me is (I can't imagine trying to learn an entirely new DAW). Apparently there are a lot of great audio-apps for OSX (I wouldn't know any, Vista user), so just look into that. Why bother with the potential overhead and latency issues when you don't really have to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zircon Posted May 2, 2008 Share Posted May 2, 2008 I strongly recommend against it. It's easy to use a ton of CPU and RAM doing music production, even with a dual core computer. Adding additional overhead is asking for trouble, especially since many applications and plugins in the audio world have weak multicore support to begin with. Like DS said, just learn to use native Mac applications. Logic (Express or Studio) is the best buy in the industry right now so it makes sense to take advantage of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanthos Posted May 2, 2008 Share Posted May 2, 2008 Unless you're planning to use only soundfonts (and even then, arranging for a whole orchestra might be pretty CPU-intensive), there's no reason to limit yourself further. You *will* hit limitations using native plugins and not running a VM if you use decent plugins; I don't know why you'd want to hit those limits sooner by using a VM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prophetik music Posted May 2, 2008 Share Posted May 2, 2008 just dual boot. is space THAT much of a limiter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pezman Posted May 2, 2008 Author Share Posted May 2, 2008 Logic (Express or Studio) is the best buy in the industry right now so it makes sense to take advantage of that. Even Logic Express seems like a fairly expensive program to sink my funds into at this point. If I go places with this, who knows? But unless and until that happens I'm pretty sure I'd want to start out with something a bit cheaper. just dual boot. is space THAT much of a limiter? Actually, it's more a matter of convenience. If I'm playing a game but then realize I need to run a program on OSX, all I have to do is quit the game and then the virtualization, as opposed to shutting down and rebooting. It may sound trivial, but in the moment it would keep my workflow/gameflow continuous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zircon Posted May 2, 2008 Share Posted May 2, 2008 Even Logic Express seems like a fairly expensive program to sink my funds into at this point. If I go places with this, who knows? But unless and until that happens I'm pretty sure I'd want to start out with something a bit cheaper. What??? FLStudio is $150 for the Producer edition, which is the only edition worth using. Logic Express is $200 list, and can be purchased for as low as $160 online, easily. The academic version of Logic Studio (the FULL version) can be acquired for $150 - the UPenn bookstore around here carries it at that price, for example. The only disadvantage of the Logic Studio edu version is that you don't get upgrade discounts. But this is pretty minor considering how ridiculous the deal you're getting is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pezman Posted May 2, 2008 Author Share Posted May 2, 2008 Hmmm... I'll keep that in mind. Naturally, Dickinson's bookstore doesn't have Logic, but University of South Carolina very well might. Thanks for the tip. At any rate, I didn't mean to sound like I wanted to grip on to FL Studio with all my might. Just what options I had. And if I do decide to dual-boot at some point, I will have it. Do the low-latency core audio drivers carry over to Windows? ASIO4All hasn't panned out for me on this machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prophetik music Posted May 2, 2008 Share Posted May 2, 2008 don't forget that you could get student discounts through a store like academic superstore, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analoq Posted May 2, 2008 Share Posted May 2, 2008 Irrelevant, unhelpful and garrulous system architecture basics Compyfox had no sense of tact but at least he could be helpful. This guy, however, has no redeeming values I can detect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escariot Posted May 2, 2008 Share Posted May 2, 2008 I need a laptop (as opposed to a desktop) for purposes of notetaking in classes and easy portability. Pen and paper, dude. People have been taking notes that way for years. And people seem to dislike those that bring laptops in for note-taking purposes. It's not uncommon to see someone "accidentally" spill a coffee or something on the laptop of a "greater than thou" laptop note-taker. </offtopic> <topic> Not a damn clue </topic> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prophetik music Posted May 2, 2008 Share Posted May 2, 2008 Compyfox had no sense of tact but at least he could be helpful. This guy, however, has no redeeming values I can detect. compyfox sighting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkeSword Posted May 2, 2008 Share Posted May 2, 2008 Bluefox, don't reply to a thread in this forum unless you can offer some useful advice. Off-topic, useless posts (and their off-topic rebuttals) moved to Abuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluefoxIcy Posted May 3, 2008 Share Posted May 3, 2008 Bluefox, don't reply to a thread in this forum unless you can offer some useful advice. Fine, here's some useful advice: The original question has no valid answer in the scope given. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zircon Posted May 3, 2008 Share Posted May 3, 2008 Yes, it did. It was already answered. You just have a lack of knowledge about relevant issues to audio production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkeSword Posted May 3, 2008 Share Posted May 3, 2008 Sorry. That's not useful, nor is it correct, considering people have already given some valid, helpful, on-topic advice to the original poster that's lead to further on-topic discussion. You were already warned, so see you after the weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prophetik music Posted May 3, 2008 Share Posted May 3, 2008 haha b& so, pez, what's the verdict? do you think you're going to dual, or are you gonna try the vm deal? i talked with a friend of mine who's hardcore into VMs for just about everything - he says that there's a strong chance you'll have problems with the audio stack, because of osx's general monopolization of audio within the OS (according to him). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pezman Posted May 3, 2008 Author Share Posted May 3, 2008 Pen and paper, dude. People have been taking notes that way for years. And people seem to dislike those that bring laptops in for note-taking purposes. It's not uncommon to see someone "accidentally" spill a coffee or something on the laptop of a "greater than thou" laptop note-taker. None of my classmates or teachers here seem to have an with it, as I've never given a "holier than thou" impression when I do it. Even if people did have an issue, that's their problem, because my handwriting is horrible (motor coordination - actually have a disability service for it) and the benefits of being able to easily edit them later and keep them in one place are too good to give up. so, pez, what's the verdict? do you think you're going to dual, or are you gonna try the vm deal? Given that I'm not getting the new machine until June, we'll have to see. I do know I will investigate getting Logic. i talked with a friend of mine who's hardcore into VMs for just about everything - he says that there's a strong chance you'll have problems with the audio stack, because of osx's general monopolization of audio within the OS (according to him). Thanks for thinking of me. I'll definitely consider that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgfoo Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Like others, I would definitely recommend against trying to rum FL with VMWare (or Parallels for that matter). If you're already married to FL then just install a windows partition via Boot Camp and then you'll have no worries. Of course, I'd say get Logic Studio or Logic Express and go with those instead. Since money seems to be an issue, you could always cozy up with Garageband for a bit until you have the funds to purchase a version of Logic. It's a more powerful program than most people give it credit for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekofrog Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Don't get a Mac if it's going to be such trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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