Zelda: Majora's Mask 'Deku Palace'

[Vidilian]

I worked on this a while ago when I first started making music and I still love the source tune so much I've decided to go back and improve on it with things I've learnt since then.

The many problems with it back then included: it was too muddy/cluttered, the drumline, quality of samples, arrangement too close to original, etc...

I'd love to know which of these problems is still around (probably all, lol) and other ones ofcourse.

http://vspaine.googlepages.com/DekuPalacide.mp3

It's in a different key to the original I think. Sounds better that way imo.

[Rozovian]

It starts off a bit too dry, plus there's a weird sound at the very start, probably a loop tail.

I'm having a hard time following the cymbal and shaker writing, they clutters the sound a bit imo, so simplify those. For example, restrict the shaker to offbeat quarter notes. While on the drums, you've got a weird blend of orchestral, rock, and electronic drums here. Nothing bad about combining sounds/genres, but it does feel a little schizofrenic. Maybe you should drop the electronic ones you used in the beginning, use some form of acoustic drums instead, such as toms, orchestral percussion, possibly ethnic percussion. On the other hand, the electronic drums do fit in towards the end where you're using a more electronic-sounding lead. I'll sum up the percussion feedback with a traditional rozovian "make it sound deliberate".

The sequencing is also rigid and repetitive at times, just changing the note length and velocity of the lead instruments could be enough. The guitar, or whatever it is, is probably what stands out the most - in a negative way. If you have another sample, use that one. If not, consider reducing attack, adding delay, reverb, something to soften it.

There's a lot of things here that I like, such as not beginning a section with a crash on the beat (consider having a shaker note there tho), the key, instrumentation and overall feel, the progression and dynamics of it. The source is there, to some extent at least. I got struck with my occasional source-deafness, but recognized at least something. Could be the new key that's screwing with my ears. Anyway, this does have potential, and considering the pleasant sound it has, it's worth finishing.

btw, it needs a decent ending.

[Vidilian]

Thanks mate. Helpful comments as usual.

Update. I've tried improving on all the things you've said. A few experiments that i'm not sure wor aswell as i think they do. I'll improve on the ending even more in a later update. I've noticed that it sounds a lot better through headphones (for me anyway)

[Davos-Moon]

Yeah the second version is defiantly better, but I'm feeling too much ambiance from the melody, I don't know maybe it's fine, but it seems kind of distracting to me.

[Rozovian]

Davos-Moon's choice of words made me post. Defiantly does not equal definitely! Argh! /spelling fit

I know I listen to way too many wips to keep track of stuff, but this took just a few seconds to remember. That's a good thing.

Sorry man, mixing is atrocious. Backing tracks hog a lot of room, drums are pushed back, hi-range stuff (crashes, hats) are unbalanced. I know you hit the toms on the beat, but also hit a hat or something to cover the high range. Guitar in the beginning - use reverb. Backing guitar is too loud most of the time and sounds too midi-ish, use an amp sim and reverb, or emulate one with EQ, distortion... and reverb. Just be careful not to use too much reverb.

Can't remember the old version, but what I'm hearing isn't on OCR'sw level yet. There's a lot going on, most of which is good, but you need to mix it better. Figure out what you want to have in the foreground and what you want to have as background, and cut their levels accordingly. You'll probably have to cut their EQs a bit to make sure the instruments don't intrude too much on each others' frequency ranges.

The arrangement is nice, I like the calm end. I think the arrangement could get through the panel. Mixing is gonna get you NOs, if it'd even get that far. I'm not gonna attempt to compare to source today, maybe later.

Take a backup, work on the mixing. This is a nice track that I wouldn't mind having on my ipod... At the time, it's a bit of a mess tho.

[Argle]

Yikes, muddy mix. Very muddy. Some subtractive EQ will do wonders for this song.

[Vidilian]

Thanks for replies.

Update. Tried to improve on everything said although theres definitley more to do. EQ issues should be better this time I hope, I really have trouble with that aspect of mixing. Also changed the arrangement so there is less of the guitar.

[Vidilian]

Update. I forgot to attemept to EQ the drums in the last update so they were still muddy. Hopefully thats fixed now.

[Nohbody]

Why would you remix that GODAWFUL source tune!! It's still burned into my memory from all those years ago. Yeah, it was catchy at first, but by my 30th time getting caught by those retard guards I had started to hate everything and that music most of all.

[Vidilian]

Hehe, I thought it would be challenging and I think the game is really undermixed especially considering its a Zelda game.

Update. I've had another attempt at EQing the drums since they were EQ'd too much too the high side, so the cymbals sounded annoying and still cluttered things. Also tried another amp sim on the crappy guitar which keeps it in the background more.

[Vidilian]

Update: The intro is a faster tempo and I've gotten rid of the crappy guitar during that initial part because it was too exposed.

There's bass during the first half of the song now which is the most significant change, a bit of an experiment. Also other slight changes.

[Rozovian]

The new bass you're using doesn't sound nearly as interesting as the old one. Your pads are too loud. Electronic bass drum is ill suited to something otherwise fairly acoustic sounding.

Dude, add a shaker loop to keep some high frequencies in there when you don't have anything else. Just softly, like the stuff you already had there, but... more.

Work with the adsr setting on your instruments, their cutoff, and their EQ. When working with the EQ, the main purpose is to cut frequencies that they share with other instruments, to separate them from each other.

There's something in the track's sound that's totally newbtastic, but I can't say exactly what. It's a mix/instrument tweak thing. It's there from the veyr first note and throughout the track. Could be stereo presence/distance perception stuff. Try adding a reverb on the first instrument, as well as dropping its attack. Can't promise it'll sound better, but it might.

On the plus side, whatever you've done with the EQ, the track isn't muddy anymore. Success!

[Vidilian]

Thanks for comments.

I had some time on my hands so I thought I might as well have a crack at this one more time. I'm bound to get it right sooner or later.

Update:

Re-EQ'd everything. Now every instrument has a different frequency and are no less than 20 points different from eachother over a range 0f 0 to 127 (maximum) in both the high and low ranges. In other words, this is pretty much as seperate as I can possibly make them using my keyboard. Theres probably still a little tweaking to be done on some tracks though.

Reduced volumes of melodic parts, and others, now that I know the song's clean enough for those parts to still be heard.

I don't have asdr settings on this keyboard so hopefully EQ will be enough to make sound this OK.

Arrangement-wise I brought back the electric guitar in the places it was in earlier versions and hopefully it melds better than it did in those versions. Also got rid of the acoustic guitar that was in the intro and other places to reduce clutter.

[Rozovian]

The slow attack of the :09 instrument makes it sound weird. The electric guitar sounds terrible. I understand the need for it, but you need a better sounding guitar to make this track submittable.

You still need some high-range backing (hihats or shakers) for some parts. Using a shaker has the advantage of not needing its writing adjusted to fit the crash writing. The electronic kick still doesn't sound good in the mix.

Keyboard? No DAW? Recording audio or midi? EQing seems to have improved this fairly well, but sadly, it's not submittable yet, imo. I would suggest you hand over drums and guitar midi to someone who can make it sound better. It doesn't have to be Sixto.

I really like the writing here, you've done a great job refining it, but you're still suffering from a number of production problems, most notable in the guitar sound.

[Vidilian]

Thanks again. I've taken note of what you've said about the electric guitar and drums and realise I may not be able to improve them personally, because I suck at sequencing them and the guitar sample sucks. I've tried to improve the things I can improve on though.

I only use a keyboard to do this btw. I don't even have a DAW... unless you count "Audacity" which I use to record from the keyboard.

Update:

I've tweaked the volumes, harmonic content and brightness of some instruments that were giving slight, annoying feedback when I played them back after recording. It worked well for the acoustic guitar in the last third of the song in particular

Chnaged the melodic synth thing in the intro to a normal acoustic guitar to make things even more clean.

The drums in the last half are acoustic now but, as I said, I suck at sequencing them so thats the only change to the drums overall.

Reduced the reverb and adjusted the EQ on the electric guitar to a position that makes more sense(I know its futile but I'm just making it sound better until I hopefully get it replaced some day)

[Rozovian]

Gonna listen later.

Seriously man, if you've done this much without a DAW - GET ONE! After learning the basics of the app, you'll improve the track monumentally.

[Vidilian]

Hmmm. Does that mean theres no hope with this or anything else I work on if I don't get a DAW? I'm not in a position get one of those atm so that would kinda suck...

[Rozovian]

I dont' think this track is gonna be YES-ed in this condition, and I doubt you can get it there using just the keyboard. Sorry man.

On the other hand, if you could record/export the midi, someone else might get the sound done more realistically. A collab. If you're interested, check who else would be. Good luck, with this, and whatever else you're working on.

[Vidilian]

Just a quick one time update to this one. I don't necesarrily want to get it it on OCR, I just love it so much that I wanted to make it sound as good as possible.

Improved recording allowed me to use a costum EQ and much harder distortion. The drums are also a lot punchier thanks to the EQ. Sequencing is still the same (not as good as it could be) but my priority was production with this last update.