Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon

[DJMetal]

So, it looks like they're remaking the first Fire Emblem game for the DS and that it's coming out for the U.S. sometime next year. I think this is pretty sweet. I'm a big fan of the Fire Emblem, and I'm stoked that they're making another 2D one instead of more of the 3D ones...So yeah! Thought I'd share. Also, if there is a thread about this, I missed it. If that's the case, my bad.

[Triad Orion]

There are a few features in Shadow Dragon that kind of irk me. When Radiant Dawn was released they gutted support conversations and I wasn't pleased with that. The news that those conversations will be absent for Shadow Dragon as well are unfortunate, though more understandable given the original game and its first remake didn't have them to begin with.

Second? I'm not keen on the idea of how to unlock the Gaiden (or X) Chapters. Having done a little reading on the game, it sounds like you have to *lose* a certain number of units to unlock them. To me, that seems like a detriment and a completely counterproductive way to play the game. I don't really think it's a good design choice to allow more of the game to be open to those who make poor tactical choices.

On the plus side, the Class Change feature sounds exciting and can really serve to make your units more useful based on their statistics. And I am looking forward to seeing Marth's tale play out.

[SirChadlyOC]

I love me some Fire Emblem. It's one of the few games I buy on the day they come out. I keep thinking that if Fire Emblem DS is as much of an improvement over the GBA versions as Advance Wars DS was over its GBA editions, it should be ridiculously sweet.

Of course, a new game from scratch would be even better, but I'm just pleased they keep sending these games State-side. Radiant Dawn didn't sell too well.

[Triad Orion]

I love me some Fire Emblem. It's one of the few games I buy on the day they come out. I keep thinking that if Fire Emblem DS is as much of an improvement over the GBA versions as Advance Wars DS was over its GBA editions, it should be ridiculously sweet.

Of course, a new game from scratch would be even better, but I'm just pleased they keep sending these games State-side. Radiant Dawn didn't sell too well.

Well, that's in part because Radiant Dawn's difficulty settings were... unclear, to say the least. Most people who play through the game set it on Normal, which is in reality the Japanese Hard setting, which makes the game needlessly frustrating and difficult. So really? American Easy mode is actually Japanese Normal mode, the difficulty the game's meant to be played on.

Second, I suspect part of the problem comes from target audience. Radiant Dawn and Fire Emblem in general appeal heavily to a different audience than the Wii typically caters to. The GameCube had enough backing to support Path of Radiance, but Radiant Dawn had to deal with being on a system with supply problems and a more expanded market share. It didn't help that it was a sequel to Path and if people knew, they may be less likely to buy it without playing its prequel.

[LuketheXjesse]

They need to remake Fire Emblem Gaiden (NES) instead. Now THAT was a good game!

[TheHands]

A friend of mine has been playing a Japanese version of a FE for DS, probably this one. It looks like a lot of fun, with natural integrations for the touch screen. It's going to be great, if it's the same one he's been playing.

Maybe now I can take my copy of Stones out of slot 2.

[Jam Stunna]

I'll definitely be picking this up, and I'm glad it's 2-D. Going to 3-D seemed like a huge step backwards for the franchise.

[Triad Orion]

How so, Jam? Really, I thought in almost every way Radiance was an improvement over Sacred Stones. Though the character development was arguably better in Blazing Sword, Path of Radiance had excellent mechanics, a better tooled Normal difficulty with concepts that made *sense.* For example, making penalties for heavy weapons being based on Strength rather than Constitution, adding in more magic, and throwing in Laguz for the heck of it. Yes, you lost the Tower and Ruins portions that you had in Sacred Stones, but those were oddities in a Fire Emblem game, and you got less story for those side maps. Radiance was longer than Blazing Sword/Sacred Stones and arguably had better level design. In addition, most of the characters were usable and there were no obvious benchwarmers. They also reinstituted the Skill system present as far back as Thracia 776, which deepened customization further. The only negative thing they added in Radiance as far as I'm concerned is the arbitrary Biorhythm system which changed your accuracy for no apparent reason. I loathed this feature because I have bad luck with the RNG anyway.

Radiant Dawn took a few steps back with some obviously bad or underleveled units (Meg, Fiona respectively), further bolstering of the Biorhythm system, and the absolute *gutting* of Support Conversations, but again, Dawn ended up refining some elements present in Radiance to make a largely better mechanical frame for the series. They added new weapon types, new weapons within those types, new effects, etc.

Personally, I've viewed the console Fire Emblems as steps forward for the series in general, though I'd like to hear why you didn't care for them as much? I'd like to know if there was a flaw I've overlooked.

[wiredzombie]

The only fire emblem game i ever bought was the one for gameboy advanced

and from waht i remember, it was pretty challenging, but good

Its probably cause i got really into final fantasy tactics that i like it so much

I never got to play radiant dawn, but i still need to get it

[Aninymouse]

How so, Jam? Really, I thought in almost every way Radiance was an improvement over Sacred Stones. Though the character development was arguably better in Blazing Sword, Path of Radiance had excellent mechanics, a better tooled Normal difficulty with concepts that made *sense.* For example, making penalties for heavy weapons being based on Strength rather than Constitution, adding in more magic, and throwing in Laguz for the heck of it. Yes, you lost the Tower and Ruins portions that you had in Sacred Stones, but those were oddities in a Fire Emblem game, and you got less story for those side maps. Radiance was longer than Blazing Sword/Sacred Stones and arguably had better level design. In addition, most of the characters were usable and there were no obvious benchwarmers. They also reinstituted the Skill system present as far back as Thracia 776, which deepened customization further. The only negative thing they added in Radiance as far as I'm concerned is the arbitrary Biorhythm system which changed your accuracy for no apparent reason. I loathed this feature because I have bad luck with the RNG anyway.

Radiant Dawn took a few steps back with some obviously bad or underleveled units (Meg, Fiona respectively), further bolstering of the Biorhythm system, and the absolute *gutting* of Support Conversations, but again, Dawn ended up refining some elements present in Radiance to make a largely better mechanical frame for the series. They added new weapon types, new weapons within those types, new effects, etc.

Personally, I've viewed the console Fire Emblems as steps forward for the series in general, though I'd like to hear why you didn't care for them as much? I'd like to know if there was a flaw I've overlooked.

I agree with you 100%. If anything, Dawn represented a new direction in the actual combat system that I really appreciated. Sure, Biorhythem screwed your ax users most of the time, but then Dawn could only feasibly nerf axes after the way they tore through Radiance with wild abandon.

Shadow Dragon looks pretty nifty, and I'm sure it'd be a step or three above Sacred Stones, but I can't see spending the money on it... Even though it's a remake of a game we've never gotten on this side of the ocean before, it still doesn't offer much that feels fresh besides the amazing battle sprites -- even those aren't all that incredible if you consider the sprites in the SNES games.

What an I looking for in a new Fire Emblem game? Well, overblown effects and spells certainly aren't what this franchise needs; too many other RPGs have that cornered. A more exciting musical score sure would be invigorating, for one. The tactical strategy and the perishable, unique units and rock-paper-scissors combat really are strong points already, but perhaps Fire Emblem could take some hints from Tales of and add to the options your fighters have in encounters beyond luck manipulation. The skill system is already really nice, and the redistribution of skills in Dawn opened up a cool level of customization to even the more "overlooked" units, but maybe what it needs is, like, adding in "attack," "guard," and "parry" options, say, and combining these actions with timing or skills will open up new combos and expand the feel of battles beyond this "glorified chess" that the game's settled into.

Now, granted, there are a LOT of individual fights in any FE map mission, and you need them to go fairly quickly in order for players to be able to manage the maps in a reasonable amount of time. On one hand you have the "minisave" function from Dawn that allowed you to play at a less dedicated pace for the busy, but it also serves to minimize risk and allow player exploits as well, which just screws with the difficulty... HOWEVER, for the perfectionists out there, it allowed you to micromanage the outcome of battles, which results in more resets but fewer map plays. Truthfully, they probably take about the same amount of time in the long run, and I probably prefer the way Radiance handled it in the long run.

Random stat gains and bonus exp are alright, but I wouldn't miss them if they were replaced by more dynamic battles with more HP and bigger combos.

[SirChadlyOC]

What I would like to add/change in Fire Emblem:

The biorhythm was a good idea, but executed horribly. The EFFECT biorhythm should have had is that you chose to use or not use certain characters depending on certain situations. Instead of using the same characters on every map, Fire Emblem should encourage sitting certain "all-star" players on certain occasions and using less-used characters ever once in a while.

In most play-throughs, I only have 2-3 characters that I rotate, and the rest are used every map, but it'd be awesome if some maps were more heavily toward using one class. For example, if most enemies used swords one map, lances the next, then axes, etc. I realize they do this somewhat, but I'd like it if they did it more prominently and intentionally.

I think biorhythm could have done the same thing without focusing on weapons, but it should have been easier to decipher. It should have just said, "Marth has -3 accuracy today, but tomorrow he'll have +3 accuracy" instead of a graph that meant nothing without looking up what it means somewhere else.

[LuketheXjesse]

I'll definitely be picking this up, and I'm glad it's 2-D. Going to 3-D seemed like a huge step backwards for the franchise.

Mega Man X

[Triad Orion]

Mega Man X

Yes. Not Legends though, that game was awesome.

But still, Shadow Dragon should be fun, but I really want another new game, with a new Lord and new story. Granted, I liked Ike a lot, but you have nowhere left to go with him after Radiant Dawn. It's unfortunate that he'll be retired if and when the next "new" FE comes out; he's going to be hard to top as a likable character and as a totally freaking badass unit.

[Aninymouse]

How to top Ike? Don't compete directly with him.

Something that hasn't been done in a long, long time (I think FE2?) would be to combine a melee weapon class and a magic weapon class (besides, say, swords or knives). Bows and Magic together have pretty amazing synergy, since you could give him or her a custom longbow early on for faraway enemies while reserving your magic for close combat, mostly.

The only lance-weilding Lord was Ephriam, I believe. Wouldn't mind revisiting his unique class type, that's for sure.

[Linkjing Donuts]

How to top Ike? Don't compete directly with him.

Something that hasn't been done in a long, long time (I think FE2?) would be to combine a melee weapon class and a magic weapon class (besides, say, swords or knives). Bows and Magic together have pretty amazing synergy, since you could give him or her a custom longbow early on for faraway enemies while reserving your magic for close combat, mostly.

The only lance-weilding Lord was Ephriam, I believe. Wouldn't mind revisiting his unique class type, that's for sure.

lets call her "Shanoa"

oh wait

[Jam Stunna]

You bring up alot of good points Triad, but the main problems I had with PoR were aesthetic. The 3-D models were mediocre, the battle animations were boring (I actually turned them off on my first play-through, before I'd seen them all, which I never do).

And the story had no impact on me whatsoever, which is strange because I REALLY like Ike as a character, but the rest of it didn't move me in the slightest. It was neat to see that alot of the heroes are racists, but that was the only interesting thing I encountered. When Mist talked about her mother's pendant and it started glowing, I think I audibly groaned. I only got through about half of PoR, then I let my friend borrow it and he never gave it back. I really didn't mind.

I beat FE 6, 7 and 8, and out of those 7 was definitely my favorite. I really liked 6 too, and I feel that Fire Emblem lost alot of its intangible charm in the transition back to 3-D.

[Triad Orion]

Ah, I see. This makes a lot of sense. Radiance is much slower off the ground than Blazing Sword. Even in the Lyn Campaign, you're thrust into a succession blood feud immediately after the prologue with a handful of interesting characters already in play. In Eliwood and Hector Mode, you're almost as quickly thrown into the potential of civil war in Lycia, which lead to one thing after another...

In Radiance, you're taking odd jobs for the first four or five chapters, then pushed into the story after that, and even then the progression is slow. You know immediately who and what are responsible for what happened, so there's no mystery. It's just a matter of getting back at the bastard who beat the hell out of Crimea. You uncover intrigue and so forth later on, but it's all a part of this invasion you're dealing with, often enough.

The highlight of Radiance is its characters, many of whom are rich and deep people who are fun to learn more about. The problem was, Blazing Sword had this too and a more compelling storyline because it was all about figuring out what you were dealing with.

And yes, Radiance's use of 3D was disappointing in battle. The battle maps were fine the way they were, but the in-battle sequences were more disappointing because the animations were frequently stiff and lifeless by contrast to the vibrant and over the top sprites on the GBA. Things got better in Radiant Dawn somewhat, but the character models were still too stiff. I would like to see the battle sequences be buffed out more and be more smooth. Dawn took it in the right direction, but it still has a long way to go.

That said, I still generally think Path and Dawn are taking the series in a good mechanical direction, but I will agree with Jam that the games need the heart Blazing Sword did.

[Aninymouse]

lets call her "Shanoa"

oh wait

Fire Emblem: Order of Ecclesia

Also, it's pretty obvious that the in-battle animations for Radiance were boring garbage. Things only got interesting later on when the scenery turned into something that wasn't a building interior, boat deck or castle.

Dawn looked like they actually put some decent effort into the battles, as the animations segued MUCH more fluidly. Sure, they weren't all that amazing, but the level of detail was upped, Characters were more recognizable, and special moves looked much more devastating.

If the next FE is going to be on a console, I still think the entire battle system could use a slight overhaul. Better graphics would be nice, but I'm not going to hold my breath. Dawn was "good enough," and that's where Nintendo likes to sit unless it's a blockbuster title (hint: FE games aren't blockbusters by any means).

Dawn was a lot of fun, though.

Sacred Stones I own. I think the biggest problems were the terrible story and the easy difficulty. I mean, I think I restarted because of a fallen comrade, what, maybe once early on? Dawn was kinda an oddball, since it went from very hard in Part 1, easy in Part 2, and comfortable in Part 3.

[Triad Orion]

Also, in Dawn there was that nasty fiasco about US Normal Mode being Japanese Hard Mode. That probably had a lot to do with why the difficulty was so uneven. US Easy Mode is Japanese Normal, so the difficulty's far more balanced and generally much more comfortable throughout. That's really the difficulty you're generally supposed to play on, but NoA decided to mistranslate the difficulty levels.

Though, the animations in Path of Radiance got a little better when your units started classing up, and the Occult Scrolls helped. Ike activating Aether for the first time remains a defining moment in the battle system, even if the scenes were generally otherwise plain.

[Jam Stunna]

Were the stores in PoR and RD actually good in the end? Like I said, I never actually finished PoR, and my experience had been so negative that I never played RD.

[Triad Orion]

Yeah, by the end of the game you could generally buy Silver Weapons along with the Blade Type weapons for Swords and there were usually a couple of different types of magic tomes and a decent number of staves. That was Path of Radiance.

Radiant Dawn has a similar system. You don't get Silver until surprisingly late which sucks, but you get access to Steel everything long, long before that, which included Poleaxes and Greatlances. They also fleshed out Knives for thieves considerably, including Daggers for melee combat and throwing knives to give rogues a ranged attack. The additional choices are worth the gold, generally. Radiant Dawn also introduced "bargains" or rare items that can only be purchased once and the list changed from chapter to chapter. Sometimes you could buy stat-up items or rare weapons such as a spare Florete sword for Mist or an extra Kard for Sothe. This was one of the only ways to get some of the rare stuff, but rarely were buying Stat-Up items cost effective, considering they cost you 8,000 gold which could go toward a Forged Weapon which could be better for a lower price.

In neither game were you ever able to buy like, Bolganone or Tornado Magic, unfortunately. You had to just make do with what they gave you in that department. But who cares, Soren was powerful enough to rip through everything with basic Wind Magic anyway, so...

[Jam Stunna]

Damn it, stupid me. I meant to type STORIES, not STORES.

God I suck.

[Aninymouse]

I never thought the story in PoR was anything to be proud of. It was pretty meh. Dawn's story wasn't too much better, but it was an improvement, if only because you controlled units on both sides of a massive war at certain points, quite often having to fight units you used just a few chapters back.

Then again... Oliver came back. So yeah.

[DJMetal]

Because of the crazy ass difficulty on RD, I haven't beaten it yet, but as far as the story goes for PoR...no, nothing worth playing the game for. When I played PoR I was in an "advance wars/Fire Emblem" TBS game frenzy, so I pretty much overlooked the story in exchange for the game play. In that respect, I was fairly satisfied.

[Jam Stunna]

Yeah, I figured as much. That's one reason I didn't really enjoy The Sacred Stones, because it wasn't a particularly good in it's own right, and couldn't hold a candle to FE 7.