Judges and Professionalism

[Dhsu]

That's just putting words in my mouth AND taking my words out of context. I have every right to be annoyed by that. I downright HATE when people do that, no matter who/what the occation. Mono and Roz, that's different than dealing with mere criticism.

Then why didn't you say so and just leave it that?

Now, as far as *justifying* a rebuttal, Dhsu, doesn't a response as long as it's valid and sensible (plainly addresses the issues) justify itself regardless of my mood?

EXACTLY. I was pretty much fine with your post until you threw out those lame reasons.

It's not like I threw in false implications or resorted to name-calling or anything.

Besides saying that he didn't even have the capacity to understand analogies? I don't exactly blame you for saying it, but it was technically an ad hominem.

And somehow, things have been blown way out of proportion for this entire thread.

To be fair, I think that while the OP had an annoying tone, the rest of the thread was fairly in proportion before you decided to, and excuse me for being blunt, PMS all over it.

What I find funny is how others seem to be trying to find a way to be indignant for him. He doesn't need it. He's a talented guy, and I think he knows that. It's a noble intention for someone to stand up and demand that I distribute sunshine and hugs and candy to every submitting remixer, but that's not going to happen. Instead, I can only promise to give the most valid, and if called for, direct appraisal I can.

Believe me, far be it for me to white-knight anybody (especially a person white-knighting another person), it's just those three flaccid explanations especially rubbed me the wrong way. I mean, the 3rd reason amounts to "HE STARTED IT" for crying out loud. Maybe I'm being too idealistic here, but I would've liked to think a member of the panel had moved beyond playground debate tactics. (Okay that was harsh, but it sounds cool so I'ma ROLL WIT IT. )

But let me just remind everyone that this is a volunteer thing, and there's yet to be a written handbook for us. And until that time, when I have read and signed that it is my job to sugar-coat all my feedback, what you see is what you'll get.

This is pretty specious, IMO. Prot was fired for a reason, and it wasn't his work ethic.

Fixed. $A char

Don't you mean 0x0000000A char?

[Rozovian]

Guys, may I state that those rebuttals (BGC's) are not just bad, they're downright awful.

But this isn't about the vote, BGC's qualifications, TheLeviathan's mix, and not really about BGC's posts here either. As I see it, this is about how submissions should be treated, which isn't with tasteless analogies and that kind of unprofessional attitude. Next time I submit something, I hope the judges won't be in that kind of bad mood, simply because while I can take a NO and go back and work on the track, I'd be offended if I got the kind of unprofessional response that BGC provided after his original vote.

Drama? this.... is... OCREMIX!!

[Vig]

A point of interest:

We used to be SOO much worse about this. Case in point: http://www.ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2307

We would NEVER get away with talking like that now. Sure it was cathartic and fun, but it wasn't helpful to the remixer. Honestly though, one of the reasons you don't see stuff like that anymore is because the submissions that reach the panel (thanks to larry's bottomless supply of time and altruism) are much better these days. So if it seems like your mix is greeted roughly, you can all rest easy knowing that you guys totally rock the cock, even if your mix isn't passed.

[Fishy]

00:00 into it, and I already think its a verbatim rip. However, I was shocked to discover that I was right in the end. Original section at 1:40. I'll give credit for that. No wait, I wont.

Though I would never vote on anything but a jokemix like that, you've got to admit that its friggin funny.

[Tex]

But the older decisions were the best.

[DarkeSword]

This is pretty specious, IMO. Prot was fired for a reason, and it wasn't his work ethic.

It wasn't for the quality of his votes either.

[Dafydd]

Don't you mean 0x0000000A char?

Maybe... I'm not really sure. I guess it depends.

[big giant circles]

I better stop posting before I lose my nomination for "most lovable" around here. :B

And I don't want Roz to run out of tissues, either

Dhsu, I sais "SUGGESTS that you do not understand an analogy," you argumentative bastage Now you're putting words in my mouth. Also, BGC is a coverup. My real name is Prot.

And ur all fgts.

*edit*

Whoops, forgot the

Boy, that could have got ugly...

[Nekofrog]

I better stop posting before I lose my nomination for "most lovable" around here. :B

And I don't want Roz to run out of tissues, either

Dhsu, I sais "SUGGESTS that you do not understand an analogy," you argumentative bastage Now you're putting words in my mouth. Also, BGC is a coverup. My real name is Prot.

And ur all fgts.

*edit*

Whoops, forgot the

Boy, that could have got ugly...

You made your bed, now lie in it.

Who's ready to start the official "remove BGC from the panel" petition?

[Dhsu]

It wasn't for the quality of his votes either.

That was more or less my point. His actual votes were quality, but djp finally had enough of him being a arrogant, self-righteous jerkhole, which does not lend any sort of support to Jimmy's implication that since his only job is to evaluate remixes and there is no judge handbook then any sort of d-baggery past that is fair game.

Dhsu, I sais "SUGGESTS that you do not understand an analogy," you argumentative bastage Now you're putting words in my mouth.

Fine I'll concede that, but it was still an ad hominem in SPIRIT.

Also, BGC is a coverup. My real name is Prot.

Analogies are fun aren't they?

[DarkeSword]

That was more or less my point. His actual votes were quality, but djp finally had enough of him being a arrogant, self-righteous jerkhole, which does not lend any sort of support to Jimmy's implication that since his only job is to evaluate remixes and there is no judge handbook then any sort of d-baggery past that is fair game.

Except it doesn't come close to being douchebaggy. It's just being snippy/irritable. There's a difference between just being an asshole for the sake of it, and getting annoyed when someone takes crap out of context and blows something out of proportion.

[Dhsu]

On reading my post again I did imply that Jimmy was being dbaggy, but that wasn't the intention. I can definitely understand his being irritated and any sort of resulting outburst, and that's an acceptable reason in itself. Again, I'm okay with BGC's actions themselves for the most part, but saying there's no judge handbook is not a valid justification for...well, anything really.

Edit: I really am an argumentative bastage.

[big giant circles]

So, you're still willing to spoon with me at Magfest then?

[Dafydd]

So, you're still willing to spoon with me at Magfest then?

":<" for christ's sake! ":<"!!!

[The Vagrance]

ITT it is revealed that judges are human, anarchy breaks loose.

I didn't see a problem at all with BGC's comments. The judges aren't supposed to be some perfect deity whose opinions are fact. All the judges do is judge which songs are OCR-worthy or not. They're no different from you or I, they've just been doing this slightly longer and better. If you get your feelings hurt about a VIDEO GAME REMIX, then you need to distance yourself from your work more, especially considering that you didn't even do half of the work with coming up with a melody. You can't expect respect from every listener because none of them have the emotional attachment that you do.

[analoq]

I've said unnecessarily harsh things on the panel before. And I've duly received PMs from indignant remixers.

My response to them? I sincerely apologized and promised to be more mindful about it in the future. And I tried to keep those promises.

Most judges are probably open to this sort of criticism so long as it's done privately. It's a bit harder to take threads like this seriously.

[Dhsu]

So, you're still willing to spoon with me at Magfest then?

You know it, sweetcakes:

:<

^ (me and BGC)

[Dafydd]

Now you're putting what I said out of context.

[Monobrow]

Also, BGC is a coverup. My real name is Prot.

And ur all fgts.

*edit*

Whoops, forgot the

Boy, that could have got ugly...

I was scared for a minute, really really scared... Thanks for the edit!

[DrumUltimA]

I was scared for a minute, really really scared... Thanks for the edit!

loooooooooooooool

[Catullus]

Well I realize that this thread has taken a very lighthearted turn and although it pains me to take it away from that, I dont want to have missed my chance to have a serious response to some of the things that were said earlier on. I do apologize for this

First of all BGC, if this is a waste of your very busy time you dont have to respond and while I fully realize my advice is completely unsolicited there are a couple of things I just cant let you get away with and perhaps thats a sign of my own immaturity (sorry)

I assure you that while its safe for me to assume you will take this entire post as a personal attack that is not the intention

Second, read my original vote. It's plenty *professional*.

I obviously had no problem with your original post and even said so, its pretty much every single post after that at issue. First and foremost you cannot say w/e you like and then put a smiley face afterwards and think that its okay. It just doesnt fly in the real world sorry. Its akin to saying something mean and being like Just Kidding haha you cant be mad because I said just kidding.

Random Example of this and its not directed towards anyone and of course for examples purpose it is an extreme however its just to demonstrate the absurdity

Wow this music is terrible it sounds like someone inserted a penis into my ear and then violated me for 4minutes

While haha funny its just completely immature to think that because you put a its okay and wont hurt anyones feelings or make you sound like a dick.

Try it in real life, next time your girlfriend makes you some food tell her it tastes like shit but then say haha just kidding... im sure she will appreciate that! who wouldn't?

Ok moving on now

suggests that you (or anyone else who is offended by it) do not have the capacity to understand the concept of an analogy.

I'll forgive your apparent defensive mechanism as I understand why you said it... but the thing is, I understood your analogy quite well thank you. The problem is that it was a completely immature analogy and offensive... just because the analogy works isn't the problem, the fact that its INCREDIBLY F***ING OFFENSIVE is the problem. Like I said you wouldn't want someone making that analogy on one of your mixes and I know that for a fact just from reading a couple of your posts.

There absolutely had to be a better way to get your analogy across that doesn't make you look like a jackass... at least I hope so anyway.

Now I realize that can be construed as an insult let me assure you that its not meant as one. I absolutely know very little about you personally, however if I or some random person read that thread which this topic is based, it would be hard for someone not to think wow that guy is a jackass. Its just the natural reaction. I dont think you are a jackass however my initial reaction to reading that particular thread would bias me in that direction. So in the future if you wish for the random forum goer not to think wow that guy is a jackass, I suggest you maturely take an objective look in the mirror, reread that thread like you are reading it for the first time and its someone else posting those things and then actually look objectively at what was said. Maybe after all that you still dont have a problem with it, but at the very least hopefully you can see WHY someone else who read that thread would have a problem with it.

Last of all, If my post seems un-necessarily rude or condescending, then it's for one or more of a few reasons:

1) Being human, you caught me in a less than chipper mood this morning.

2) I really DONT have time for this.

3) Granted the condescending/accusatory/judgemental/whatever light of your post, I felt it only natural to return the vibe.

Well first let me apologize if my original post was overly any of those things, it was in the heat of the moment and I was upset enough to rant that long so it probably did come off slightly too harsh (but perhaps my original post also serves as a demonstration and perfect example of why we all should be careful with our words:<), the original intention was and still is that we should treat others with respect. My creed is more along the lines of if respect is given respect is shown but its more or less the same thing.

However much like Dhsu eloquently put it you shouldn't be judging mixes or posting if you are having a bad day, go eat some ice cream and go to your happy place instead (or w/e works for you)

If you dont have time for it dont do it, simple there really isnt any need to force yourself to do something that you dont HAVE to do, especially if its going to cause you to be rude to someone who honestly seems to be a perfectly nice individual from what Ive seen of him. Its undeserved and hopefully someday you will see that there is just absolutely no excuse for it whatsoever no matter what. By you having a bad day and taking it out on someone else, they are now having a bad day too... I think you can see how that goes.

Looking back, I like what Dafydd posted.

You really shouldn't, thats a very immature life view to enjoy when someone else is getting insulted. I can completely understand why its interesting to see someone get ripped on and what not and simon makes millions doing so. However I cannot believe that DJ Pretzel wants his judges ripping on peoples tracks so that the threads are more amusing to read. Maybe Im wrong but I seriously dont think that he created this great site so something like that could happen.

Also, I was never trying to offend Jake. I'm sure it sucks for him to see that I pretty well scrutanized parts of his track

I dont think that was your intent either, however intentionally or not that was the point of this thread... to think more carefully about what was said so that people weren't offended intentionally or not especially since it was unwarranted because I have this track and I know its good. If the chanting is that bad in your opinion fine, take away those few seconds and even you know the rest of the track is very good.

But let me just remind everyone that this is a volunteer thing, and there's yet to be a written handbook for us

Well in all honesty there might not need to be one, but that doesn't really mean that you get a Free Pass to do whatever you want either which is what you seem to imply. I agree with Dhsu that it doesn't really mean anything.

Summation time.

Okay look I dont expect you to take this unsolicited advice and start pissing rainbows or whatever analogy you want to use

That said if you take just one thing from it, try to be more polite. Even you have to agree that simply the act of trying to be more polite in your responses even just a little would be a good thing. Also I will say it again, if you are having a bad day or are stressed for time perhaps avoid the judges forum?

Take care

[big giant circles]

Sweet mercy, is this still going on?

*sigh*

I've already responded to everything you just brought back into the light, and re-responding is simply beating a dead horse on both sides, so I'll leave you with this.

"He who takes offense when offense is intended is a fool. He who takes offense when offense is NOT intended is a greater fool."

It's never been my intent to offend any submitters, and if they (or you it seems) insist on finding such offense that's your own choice, but I'm not going to bother losing sleep over it.

[Catullus]

"He who takes offense when offense is intended is a fool. He who takes offense when offense is NOT intended is a greater fool."

lol i got to admit i love that quote... its very ironic in of itself.

[Catullus]

What's all this, then?

1) BGC is a very even-keeled dude. The claim that he has a vested interest in rejecting ANY remix is total, unfounded bullshit.

2) I don't see why he has an obligation to be "professional." I prefer people to be direct rather than professional. When my music sucks, I want to hear about it and I want to hear ways I can fix it. I'm not implying that they're mutual exclusives, but his posts in that thread had a certain utility.

3) TheLeviathan isn't pissed off, but some other guy is. Doesn't that seem kind of silly?

4) What analoq said.

honestly your post hardly deserves a response as you didnt seem to read the thread and your post is very low brow. That said I had an issue with #1 and perhaps it also needs clarifying.

perhaps you shouldnt take my word for it then

It's true it can be said that I had a vested interest in Jake's song not getting passed in it's current form

When I said that he had a vested interest in seeing it not passed thats exactly how I interpreted his posts. He seemed to be posting repeatedly to bias other judges towards his point of view and thus not get it passed. Personally I was assuming that he was doing it to prove himself right however that was an assumption on my part and one which I believe even still to be right.

That said I think i sufficiently proved he was lobbying to get the track to receive a NO vote and you aren't up to the task to proving me wrong on this sorry.

Idealistically and unrealistically speaking the judges should be listening to this track and voting on its own merits based on what THEY thought rather than what another judge felt.

Sure of course there is going to be some influencing involved, but thats a very very fine line. When it gets to the point of a judge campaigning for or against a track its crossed it.

When you say things like

"Vig has single-handedly restored my faith in this panel."

it can very easily be construed that he respects vig and lost respect for those voting yes as if they dont know what they are doing. Oh wait he used a smiley face never mind >_>

Whether thats fair or not, is not the point. There really should be no place for comments like that in my mind and I am rather uncompromising on this point.

Thank you for playing come again soon!

[Catullus]

much better *applauds* if you have any qualms about how I insulted you, you only have yourself to blame. Personally I thought it was rather tame considering your original post.

Btw you shouldn't be ripping anyone else on their English. Mine is far superior to yours.

He give the mix a "no" initially.

But hey lets not play this game... you are obviously not qualified to judge.