Trouble with Compressors

[Cybermouse]

I need help using the FL Compressor. I took another look at my mix from last year (see this thread: http://www.ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=19505 for more info on that) and was trying to incorporate/use some of the feedback I got on it, but I was especially having trouble using the compressor. I understand what it does ok, but I can't seem to get the sound I want out of the drums. They are way too soft at this point. I tossed out the default FL kick/clap and got a decent-sounding snare and some other random samples, but the drums, especially the snare, are too soft. I can't seem to get the compression to louden them at all. Maybe I don't know how compression works after all.

The main problem is whenever I turn up the gain knob, all the other instruments start sounding REALLY weird. For instance, I have this one section where the snare is hitting every 2 beats and it makes the pad behind it sound freaky, somehow it is affecting the volume of the pad as well, although the snare isn't any louder like it should be. I don't get it

Also any feedback on the mix is welcome too. I want to at least make this one sound good so that I know kind of what to do when/if I submit a remix.

[The Vagrance]

To be honest, you shouldn't rely too much on compression to give you the sound you want on drums. The key to a good drum sound is in the EQ and most importantly the sample you're starting with.

As for it altering the sound of other things, do you have a limiter on your master channel? What you're hearing is when the snare gets too loud the limiter has to push down the volume of other elements to compensate, this is generally referring to as "pumping" and unless used rhythmically like sidechaining (which should always be done with a compressor designed for that purpose anyway) it almost always sounds bad.

[1makes2]

http://www.ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3314

here is a nice list of stuff on remixing and processing.

compression really isnt going to make the track louder unless you crank up the output gain.

try not to set your ratio to more than 3.5:1 on a sampled snare drum and set your threshold to about 3 db below the peaks.

hope this helps.

[DDRKirby(ISQ)]

if something is too soft, turn up the volume

no, seriously. Compressors shouldn't be used to alter volume. They can be used for other things, such as:

-being used to add PUNCH (which is where the "attack" of the compressor comes in--the first part of the sound gets through uncompressed, meaning you have more punch at the beginning of it)

-being used to regulate the volume of something (i.e. "remove dynamics")

-being used as a limiter

-being used for sidechaining

the two ways, in general, that compression can make things "louder" is by

1) accentuating the first part of a sound (the "attack")

2) bringing up the soft parts of a sound (this is because the soft parts are unaffected by the compressor since they're below the threshold--the loud parts are compressed, so overall when you bring up the gain you get a more uniformly loud sound)

if turning up your snare makes everything else sound weird, it means there's no more "room" in your mix. This could be due to several things:

-if you play the snare by ITSELF, and turn the volume up, and it's STILL too soft, then either a) you have a shitty snare sample or you need to turn up the volume on your speakers/headphones

-the snare may have various unwanted frequency content that should be surgically trimmed using EQ. usually if you have a decent sample this isn't that much of a problem though, as far as volume goes.

-you may have too many other elements in the mix that prevent the snare from coming through. This is especially prevalent if you have other instruments that overlap in the same frequency range and thus cause a "masking" effect. You mentioned that you have pads, so that might be the culprit.

Or, you might possibly be slapping a compressor on the ENTIRE mix, and expecting it to selectively increase the volume of the snare. This could easily lead to the "pumping" effect you described, and is an absolute nono (why would you compress the master channel if you want to make the snare louder? o_O)

Again, compressors should never be used to increase or decrease volume. That's what the VOLUME knob is for

one trick that some people use for drums is to duplicate your drum sound and have one copy run dry while the other runs through a compressor. The idea is that the dry copy retains the original full sound while the compressed version adds the extra oomph.

we can look at your actual project if you upload it somewhere (as a .zip file).

[Zephyr]

Like DDRKirby said it sounds like you may have put a compressor on the master channel, don't do that, send your drums to their own insert and put the compressor there. Also it doesn't sound like you really know what you're doing with a compressor. For simple volume level (to flatten out the sound's dynamics so you can make it louder without peaks) you should lower the threshold to the value where most of the sound is, then tweak the ratio and attack until it's limiting the volume flow properly. Then bring up the gain to get the volume at the level you want.

[Cybermouse]

Thanks for all the help! I had a look at that, and I totally forgot that there was indeed a limiter on the master mix channel (the one FL puts there by default which I hadn't messed with). So do I just turn the limiter off and then work with the individual channels from there? That sounds like the best idea from what you guys have told me. This "pumping" as you call it is definitely the problem then, so it being caused by the limiter explains why I couldn't figure it out. I guess I need to find a better snare sample.

The drums are causing me the most problems right now, I just can't seem to find samples that fit or that sound good with the mix. It means that I'm obviously terrible at drum selection and/or beat programming, as you can no doubt hear evidence of in the mix I posted. Now that I listen to it I can't believe that I once thought it sounded good. Any advice on general drum selection, especially in terms of the genre I was going for with this mix (electronica/techno) would be greatly appreciated. In the other topic someone briefly mentioned that I need toms instead of a kick/clap beat, but I honestly didn't care for the sound of toms with the mix. Any thoughts here after hearing the original?

[DDRKirby(ISQ)]

Thanks for all the help! I had a look at that, and I totally forgot that there was indeed a limiter on the master mix channel (the one FL puts there by default which I hadn't messed with). So do I just turn the limiter off and then work with the individual channels from there? That sounds like the best idea from what you guys have told me. This "pumping" as you call it is definitely the problem then, so it being caused by the limiter explains why I couldn't figure it out. I guess I need to find a better snare sample.

The drums are causing me the most problems right now, I just can't seem to find samples that fit or that sound good with the mix. It means that I'm obviously terrible at drum selection and/or beat programming, as you can no doubt hear evidence of in the mix I posted. Now that I listen to it I can't believe that I once thought it sounded good. Any advice on general drum selection, especially in terms of the genre I was going for with this mix (electronica/techno) would be greatly appreciated. In the other topic someone briefly mentioned that I need toms instead of a kick/clap beat, but I honestly didn't care for the sound of toms with the mix. Any thoughts here after hearing the original?

Putting a limiter on the master channel is usually a GOOD thing to do. You just want to have it do nothing except limit--i.e. you dont want to turn up the gain and make it try to squash everything--you only want it there to prevent clipping. you can also use the "soft clipper" for this instead if you want (i know beatdrop does/used to do this).

again, posting a project zip file might allow us to take a closer look at what's going on.

listening to your mp3, it's not clear what you're going for in terms of drums. You just have eigth note kicks for most of the piece which is somewhat jarring. You could potentially either go with UUNST UNNST drums, as in a trance track, in which case I have a bunch of advice i could give for that, or you could be going for more of a...zircon-esque, style drum beat, for lack of a better term (some might call it breakbeat, though at times it's not quite as aggressive as actual breakbeat). Or you could go for rock-style drums, in which case the toms might be necessary.

I'd be happy to give you some more concrete advice and even guide you through some concepts and tricks, but you're gonna have to work with me here, otherwise the best i can do is give pretty vague suggestions. I've sent you a PM with details.