So Star Wars pops into my head...

[Wacky]

This completely blew my mind.

After having the Star Wars "Rule of Two" for the Sith explained to me (As I was never a fan and know the series only in passing- but strangely enough because they are awesome games I know the KotOR universe far better than I do the movies) The thought that Anakin Skywalker, that is, Darth Vader, would bring "Balance" to the force strikes me thus:

1. Assume there are 2 Sith at any one time.

2. Assume there are >2 Jedi at any one time.

Through episode 3, Anakin Skywalker goes nuts and kills every other Jedi except for Obi Wan and Yoda and turns to the Dark side, that is, turns Sith, so:

2 Sith = 2 Jedi by the end of the 3rd movie.

Where the next 3 go,

2 Jedi vs. 2 Sith

1 Jedi vs. 2 Sith after Obi Wan Dies, but because of Vader's actions, Luke becomes a Jedi, so

2 Jedi vs. 2 Sith

And then in Return of the Jedi Yoda dies, so

1 Jedi vs. 2 Sith

Vader kills Palpatine, so

1 Jedi vs. 1 Sith

And then Vader dies, and can't affect the number of Jedi vs. Sith any more.

Anakin Skywalker has, indeed, brought Balance to the Force! Every time he's acted, he has balanced the equation!

You would think when the Jedi outnumbered the Sith by several thousand they'd not want Anakin around, but clearly they don't teach enough Jedi discrete Mathematics or Logic systems and instead teach them kumbaya and that "balance" is always good.

[Bagel Fuzzynuts]

You must have a lot of time on your hands.

[Wacky]

This entire revelation took approximately 45 seconds to work out and 5 minutes to type.

Yes, my brain tends to work on overdrive figuring out useless shit like this.

[Gollgagh]

in other words, wacky shat a brick

[CarnCarby]

Yeah, I was always amused by the fact that everybody seemed to be reading this prophecy about "balance" as just a great all-around thing. I mean, once Anakin's purge starts, you wonder about the Jedi scholars sitting around saying "Oh yes, well, I guess that is another possible reading of the prophecy. Ha! Our bad."

[Buttercup]

Luke brought balance to the force by allowing himself to use the dark side during his battle with Darth Vader in Return of the Jedi, but not allowing himself to turn completely to the dark side. He's a Jedi that was able to harness the power of the dark side without becoming a sith.

[Kizyr]

Is it one-to-one, though? Does 1 Sith = 1 Jedi?

I'd think that some Jedi would be much more powerful than average, and likewise for the dark side. So, considering Vader's power (or the Emperor's), he could be worth several average Jedi.

I mean, at the end of most JRPGs, it takes the entire party to defeat one single bad guy. And in DnD, you'll add the party's levels to figure out the right CR for their enemies. KF

[DarkeSword]

Bringing "Balance" to the force didn't really have anything to do with mathematics.

Plus when Vader killed Palpatine/Sidious, he was no longer a Sith but a Jedi, so you could argue that the score was 2-0, in favor of the Jedi. Then he dies, and then you're left with 1-0. That's still unbalanced, mathematically speaking.

Bringing "balance" to the Force isn't about evening out the Light Side and the Dark Side. The Dark Side, specifically in the manner that the Sith practice, is chaotic and upsets the Force. By destroying Palpatine/Sidious and dying, he removed the Sith from--and this is a really poor word choice I'm about to make--the equation. With no Sith practitioners, the chaos is gone, balance is restored, and everything resets back to zero.

[Native Jovian]

There are three ways to interpret the "balance" thing as far as I know.

1) What Darkesword said. Sith are "unbalancing", so "bringing balance to the Force" means killing all the Sith. Vader turned away from the Dark Side and killed Palpatine (thus destroying the last of the Sith), thus bringing balance. IIRC this is the official Lucas-approved interpretation.

2) Anakin/Vader enabled Palpatine to kill (almost) all the Jedi, which ended up with two Jedi (Obi Wan and Yoda) and two Sith (Vader and Palpatine). Balance. All the various side stories where gobs of Jedi survive the purge sort of screws this one up, but using just the movies as evidence, I actually like this one best.

3) Luke was actually the object of the prophecy, because he was the one who turned Vader back to the Light Side and motivated him to kill the Emperor. So while Vader did the actual deed, Luke was the one who really brought balance to the Force, because without him Vader would have never done what he did.

[Jam Stunna]

I always thought that Anakin fulfilled the prophecy by bringing balance to the Force. Even though he took the detour as Vader, it was him that ultimately destroyed Sidious.

[Triad Orion]

Then there's the whole other bullcrap in the expanded universe with various Jedi constantly surviving Order 66 and the subsequent Jedi Purge. It all blows, but it is officially generally considered canon, which blows. But as far as I'm concerned, it was Luke Skywalker who ultimately brought balance to the Force. While Vader was the one to kill Emperor Palpatine, and he had been plotting to do so for a long time, Luke convinced Vader to let go of his hatred and return to the Light.

Vader may have been the one to destroy Palpatine, but it was, as one interpretation said, only because of Luke and his attempts to redeem the good man within. In the case of bringing Balance to the Force, it was not simply destroying Palpatine, but defeating him without using the corrupting influence of the Dark Side.

Of course, this good theory frequently gets thrown away because of much of the idiocy involving the Jedi and the Force in the Expanded Universe.

...This is why I only like the Zahn's work, the X-Wing series, and Republic Commando.

[Kenobio]

I always thought that Anakin fulfilled the prophecy by bringing balance to the Force. Even though he took the detour as Vader, it was him that ultimately destroyed Sidious.

Exactly. He kills the last Sith (aside from himself) and saves his son, and in the process reverts back to the "good" side of the Force (as he's dying he even states that there is still some good left in him). Thus, according to the original balance theory that Lucas proposed (See: Darkesword's explanation) the prophecy is fulfilled.

[Thin Crust]

Geez, I figured this out a long time ago. No Offence Wacky.

[Wacky]

Dude, Star Wars isn't Science Fiction, it's Science Fantasy. Replace Jedi with Wizards and and stormtroopers with uruk hai and so on and so forth and seriously, would anyone notice the difference?

[DarkeSword]

Then there's the whole other bullcrap in the expanded universe with various Jedi constantly surviving Order 66 and the subsequent Jedi Purge. It all blows, but it is officially generally considered canon, which blows.

They're officially considered C-canon (Continuity Canon).

Lucas Licensing actually organizes everything into different "levels" of canon.

G-Canon (George Lucas Canon) is all six movies and anything that comes from Lucas directly (production notes, etc).

T-Canon (Television Canon) is Star Wars TV stuff, like Clone Wars and the upcoming live action series.

C-Canon (Continuity Canon) is the current "Expanded Universe." Republic Commando books, New Jedi Order, Fate of the Jedi, Darth Bane novels, all the Old Republic stuff.

S-Canon (Secondary Canon) is old stuff that doesn't necessarily fit. Marvel's old Star Wars comics are a good example.

N-Canon (Non-Canon) is all the off the wall Star Wars stuff, like Infinities and all those kooky Star Wars Tales stories (like Jedi Chef and that one Pulp Fiction spoof with Yoda and Mace eating burgers).

G, T, and C technically all form one overall canon, but for the purposes of discussing Anakin's role as the Chosen One and the prophecy about bringing balance to the force, you should just concern yourself with G-Canon.

[Ferret]

Where can I get those? I wanted to read them...

I also used to have a couple issues of the Marvel Star Wars comics but they got lost in a move somewhere.

[JCvgluvr]

Are all those canons really necessary? It seems like far too much to bother keeping track of...

[Rambo]

The "Jedi Apprentice" children's series is awesome. lol

[Red9]

G-Canon (George Lucas Canon) is all six movies and anything that comes from Lucas directly (production notes, etc).

T-Canon (Television Canon) is Star Wars TV stuff, like Clone Wars and the upcoming live action series.

Viruses from a specific franchise comes to mind...

[DarkeSword]

Are all those canons really necessary? It seems like far too much to bother keeping track of...

Star Wars is a multi-million dollar franchise with tons of new material coming out all the time: novels, comics, games, etc. Keeping track of continuity and minimizing contradictions is extremely important when so many creative minds are involved. The Expanded Universe would be a nightmare to follow if Lucas Licensing didn't make a concerted effort to keep things relatively consistent.

[Antipode]

Yeah actually I've always been extremely impressed with how much material they've managed to organize and arrange into their universe over the years. It's so easy to get lost in reading about.

[Toadofsky]

Read an article in I think a Sci Fi magazine or Popular Mechanics, and Lucas has enlisted guys to make a database of all the Star Wars stories, characters, planets, time-line, you name it, it's being put into it.

Of course, a good sum of it, just as it has been summarized, is not part of official cannon.

It was funny, because in the interview with the guy (and yeah, he gets paid to do all that), he typed something up, that showed something that isn't even out yet, or has yet to be shown in at least another year or two (he had to cover the monitor up so as not to spoil it).

I agree, Timothy Zahn's work on Star Wars, as well as Karen Travis', is excellent. The Republic Commando books really show a side of the clones that you don't get to see. I can't wait for the next Republic Commando book.

Man, I wish they would bring another Clone Commmando game out, that first one was incredible.

[DarkeSword]

That would be Leland Chee, the Keeper of the Holocron.

Talk about your dream job.

[The Acolyte]

I had always thought of it this way: With the characters always talking how the Force is strong with so and so person, I had attributed the imbalance in the Force to the fact that Lord Sidious was so powerful as to be the embodiment of the Dark Side. When he turned Anakin into Darth Vader, the Dark Side became all the more potent with Anakin being a prodigy among Force-sensitives. Further, Mace Windu had acknowledged that the Jedi's ability to use the Force had diminished. In short, Jedi were getting weaker, and the Sith were getting stronger.

Combined, they were more than a match for the Jedi Order at the time the Clone Wars came to an end. After Order 66 reduced the Jedi numbers from thousands to fewer than 20, the contrast between the light and dark power became rather stark.

When Luke comes of age and is trained in the Jedi Arts, that in itself BEGINS to bring balance to the Force. Luke appeals to the shred of Anakin that remained in Vader by accepting that Vader was his father. Later, when Sidious is about finish off Luke, Anakin decides he will not allow his son to die and destroys the Emperor. In doing so, he returns to the light, vanquishes the personification of the Dark Side of the Force, and thus brings the Force back into balance.

[Native Jovian]

The Expanded Universe would be a nightmare to follow if Lucas Licensing didn't make a concerted effort to keep things relatively consistent.

That implies that it's not a nightmare to follow now.

Seriously. Once I tried to figure out how many times Scooby and the gang had saved the Alliance/New Republic/Galaxy/Universe/whatever. I gave up after about twenty.

(Scientific fact: the X-Wing novels are the best part of the EU. Specifically the Wraith Squadron half, because Corran Horn is such a Mary Sue that it causes me physical pain.)