Silent Hill Discussion

[StarZander]

The doublehead enemies are supposedly representative of the twins in question, as detailed in the victim files on the official website.

Hmm.

So why weren't they all floaty like everything else?

Why turn them into a big-ass demon that flaunts the laws of physics like they were the speed limit.

Maybe the victims that fly around, were sacraments 12+? Since the first 10 were killed differently, and were in a different phase of it all. Or maybe just for fun.

[M@]

Harry was in SH2?

SH2+3 SPOILERS! (but not really)

He turned up in the UFO ending and abducted James. Also, it's worth pointing out that James is in SH3...he's having a tea party with Harry and an alien in the UFO ending just before Harry wigs out and blows up Silent Hill)

Ah... Having the original PS2 version, I've only seen the 'Dog' ending. I’ve seen the UFO ending in 3 though. That song rules!

]I think Ghost-Cynthia is pretty much a reference to The Ring in itself, with the hair and the crawling and whatnot.

Well yeah, but that's not the TV.

Half-way through the game it'd make perfect sense to do something weird with the TV like show that video or have the hand woft out of it...

(When you get that far, you'll understand why)

I've gotten that far and get what you mean, and agree, but there're probably loads of references they could have put in from that point in the game onward. It took me a game or two to figure out that taking the Doll isn't too great an idea, too.

Damn kids. Get out my wall!

[ifirit]

Silent Hill 4 Spoilers

I'm beginning to see what the complaints are about Silent Hill 4, but from the majority of issues, it seems that this game lacks the level of detail and motif that the previous games involved.

Again, my biggest complaints were the lack of character involvement and development. The two biggest characters that stood out in my mind were Gasper and Richard. Eileen had some development, but not really enough to understand what was going through her mind. I know that in Henry's description, it says that he is a reserved person, "who does not show his emotions," but there was almost no reactions or connections between himself and the characters, (particularly, the victims who pleaded again and again, to save them).

As to the monster designs, the Old-type victims will attack you using only two types of attack. And that's by trying to take your heart and causing your life to decrease by being close to them. (An interesting point I want to make when people begin discussing the story.) The New-type victims, however do use varying attacks to confront you.

Victim 16 - uses its hair to trap you, making you unable to move until it claws you.

Victim 17 - is unaffected by the use of Saint Medalions and Holy Candles, as the fire protects it. (Putting the fire out makes it vulnerable to other attacks.)

Victim 18 - Floats incredibly high out of the range of your malee attacks and then "cannonballs" toward you as a counterattack.

Victim 19 - Uses arhythmic timing and teleportation to attack you. (You can glitch the game by facing your back to a wall and getting the ghost to teleport into the wall, trapping it and saving you a Sword of Obidience.)

There are also some variations in the Old-type victims, though only slight.

Victim 04 - Uses a shovel to attack you instead of stealing your heart. This is a clue as to the identity of the victim.

Victim 10 - Will continue to attack you even when you use the Sword of Obidience.

Another interesting thing to notice is that there aren't a total of 19 victims in the game. Part of this is due to the relationship between the ghosts and some of the other characters. Victim 15 is not a monster for obvious reasons.

As to Victims 7 & 8, from the way they are designed, they look like they are trying to float by having no feet, but since were underdeveloped in their real life, maybe their ghosts are also underdeveloped (unable to have the same types of physical [metaphysical?] properties as the rest of the ghosts). You should also notice that the "Bottoms" are merely the New-type version of Victims 7 & 8. I'm not sure yet what that means in terms of the story, but it is interesting to note.

To find out more information on the identities and background information regarding the "Victims," check out the link in the Translated Memories site, here.

EDIT: Looking back at the picture of the "Abstract Daddy" in SH2, I see now that there are two figures inside the frame. It looks like there is one is on top of the other, if you know what I mean. I guess I never saw that before. :slides away:

EDIT2:

Harry was in SH2?

SH2+3 SPOILERS! (but not really)

He turned up in the UFO ending and abducted James. Also, it's worth pointing out that James is in SH3...he's having a tea party with Harry and an alien in the UFO ending just before Harry wigs out and blows up Silent Hill)

Ah... Having the original PS2 version, I've only seen the 'Dog' ending. I’ve seen the UFO ending in 3 though. That song rules!

Pick up the Greatest Hits version released on the PS2. Should be only $20.

[I-n-j-i-n]

I'm beginning to see what the complaints are about Silent Hill 4, but from the majority of issues, it seems that this game lacks the level of detail and motif that the previous games involved.

I don't think that's quite it. It's just that the dogs, the ghost and the other enemies are EXTREMELY ANNOYING when you have to go on escort missions (SH4 players know what I'm talking about), and you get so few bullets in the entire game. That, and pipes seem to do a lot less damage than they did in the older games. Definitely annoying since most monsters tend to fly at you far away from your melee attacks. That, and the melee attacks are usually weak to begin with, even when you charge up your attack to full.

The art, the graphics are all well done, except the storyline, the atmosphere and the gameplay are just attrocious and seem to me made hastily.

I'd say the game is still pretty creepy in overall atmosphere, but as a game that you PLAY and INTERACT with, it is awfully flawed.

No surprise, since SH4 was made back in June to cater to the Japanese holidays there.

[ifirit]

Anyone need an explanation of the "21 Sacrements," the ritual, not the ending (though, I'd be willing to discuss that, too)?

[StarZander]

Anyone need an explanation of the "21 Sacrements," the ritual, not the ending (though, I'd be willing to discuss that, too)?

Post it anyway.

[ifirit]

Well, I finally got around to posting this after a long weekend of work and homework. I've found out several things about the game, and I have some answers to the strange questions from the game, so enjoy and discuss. This is another long one, so grab yourself a drink or snack, if you'd like.

Silent Hill 4 Spoilers

First, is understanding the ritual of the 21 Sacraments, which is entitled the "Decent of the Holy Mother." (The full text is found in the basement of the "Wish House" after the fire.)

Here is the original text:

"The Descent of the Holy Mother -- The 21 Sacraments":

The First Sign

And God said,

At the time of fullness, cleanse the

world with my rage.

Gather forth the White Oil, the Black

Cup and the Blood of the Ten Sinners.

Prepare for the Ritual of the Holy

Assumption.

The Second Sign

And God said,

Offer the Blood of the Ten Sinners and

the White Oil.

Be then released from the bonds of the

flesh, and gain the Power of Heaven.

From the Darkness and Void, bring

forth Gloom,

and gird thyself with Despair of the

Giver of Wisdom.

The Third Sign

And God said,

Return to the Source through sin's

Temptation.

Under the Watchful eye of the demon,

wander alone in the formless Chaos.

Only then will the Four Atonements

be in alignment.

The Last Sign

And God said, separate from the flesh

too, she is who is the Mother Reborn and

he who is the Receiver of Wisdom.

If this be done, by the Mystery of

the 21 Sacraments, the Mother shall be

reborn and the Nation of Sin shall be

redeemed.

Under the first "sign," the person performing the ritual of the 21 Sacraments must perform the standard offering of the white chism and blood in the obscidiene (sp?) goblet while speaking the words of the cult's bible. However, the 21 Sacraments requires the blood of 10 "sinners." I believe that the blood is used to cleanse the conjurer. In other words, that this is simply a preparation for the actual ceremony. Using blood as a method of cleansing is seen in certain Native American religions, particularly those of the Aztecs, who used human sacrafice for everything.

Walter also needed to go through this cleansing ritual. Therefore, Walter Sullivan killed 10 people he deemed as "sinners" and offered their blood as the cleansing rite. The hearts of the 10 Sinners were needed to obtain the most amount of blood. (Probably so that Walter could cover his body with their blood as these rituals sometimes call for.) These "sinners" were choosen by Walter as mostly random people from places he was familiar with, such as the college he was attending, the buildings across from South Ashfield Heights, and his hometown. With exception to the first victim, Walter did not know any of his victims (at least there are no connections saying so).

Under the second "sign," the conjurer is to perform the "Holy Assumption," which would free him from his physical body and he would obtain divine powers. After preparing his body with the rite of the 10 Sinners, the conjurer must kill himself. (I will discuss some disreprency about how Walter killed himself and where.*) As a soul without a body, the conjurer has to travel beyond the Darkness and Void, through Gloom and into Despair who is also the Giver of Wisdom. After traveling through these, the Giver of Wisdom would prepare the final rite, the Receiver of Wisdom.

What the second rite entails is that Walter must kill himself and then his spirit makes a journey through the "netherworld" and the dark aspects of the soul. Unfortunately, Walter didn't travel through them, but removed them from his path, i.e. killing the people he believed represented these things. So, four new victims were discovered as a result. Walter only vaguely knew these people, or at least knew about them, from the translated Victim files on www.translatedmemories.com. Also, by doing this, the ritual allowed Walter to create his "world" within and without the Lord's world. This is the alternate universe, in which Henry travels through. However, it is hard to tell if the "world" hasn't already consumed the apartment.

Under the third "sign," the conjurer must bring four Attonements in alignment so that the final rites may be performed. This means returning to the origin of the rituals calling, i.e. the place where the ritual was first performed. He must overcome Temptation and return to the Source, being Watched while passing through the Chaos. By doing this, the final rites will be ready for sacrafice.

Again, Walter kills four more people in order to perpare the final rites. Again, I don't believe that Walter had to kill these four victims: Cynthia, Jasper, Andrew and Richard. It seems that Walter believes that he must continue to kill people in order to complete this mysterious ritual. One thing though, unlike most of his victims, Walter knew and had met these victims before. (If you read the story of "He and the Victims," which I posted earlier on page 36, you'll see their first encounters.) These had great personal meaning to Walter, which may have been why he didn't kill them out right, or maybe he was just toying with them. Either way, the rites were completely and he just needed to finish the final two rites.

Under the fourth "sign," the conjurer must offer the sacrafice of two important people: The Mother Reborn and he who is the Receiver of Wisdom. After this is done, the "Mother" will be reborn and the "Nation of Sin" will be redeemed. This suggests that the ritual is used to revive a world once lost, thought not guaranteed.

Walter attempts to kill Eileen by beating her up. Eileen accounts that the younger form of Walter Sullivan helps her, but doesn't completely stop the attack. Henry was lucky, but Eileen's life still hung in the balance. He had to keep her safe from Walter, but if he doesn't his control on her would begin to surface. By the end, where you meet Walter at the very center of his being, Eileen has fallen completely under his control. If she dies, she will die in St. Jerome's Hospital. Although Henry is unaware of it, he too is under Walter Sullivan's control. Henry is tied closely to his apartment and as the demons and ghost begin to "haunt" it, they begin to take his life, as is what happens when you approach the haunted items around your apartment. So, if you fail to purify your room, you too will die.

Unfortunately, what happens after the completion of the 21 Sacraments is beyond me. I can't say for sure what happens besides allowing Walter's younger self to enter "the Room." However, from the news report on the radio, it seems that something similarly must have happened in Silent Hill. We'll see.

Walter Sullivan's Body:

*As I mentioned above, Walter had to kill himself in order to perform the "Holy Assumption." However, there is a problem in the timeline and events of the story in SH4 and the article in SH2. From the superintendent's diary, we see that Frank has a dream about the "man in the long coat." He says that he saw him going up to Rm. 302 with a bloody bag, a heavy tool and a bowl. We later find that Walter was going into Rm. 302 to perform the Holy Assumption. However, in the gossip magazine James finds (nice twist, by the way, Konami), it says that Walter's body was found in his prison cell after stabbing himself with a spoon. It's hard to say whether the superintendent dreamed that he saw Walter or if he actually did, since the writing is a little ambiguous. Also, from Joseph's notes, we see that he tried to find Walter's body at the graveyard in the forest of Silent Hill. The grave had been dug up and no body was inside. Though the numbers 11121 were painted on the inside, I don't believe that Walter rose from the grave to go to Ashfield, since he had not performed the Holy Assumption yet. I'm still unsure whether that was Walter in the prison, or if that was someone else (falsely accused).

"Skinning Mike":

I'm sure everyone is trying to understand what the heck happened to Mike when Richard Braintree "skinned" him. From the audio tape, it's hard to say what happened exactly. However, I was able to find the translation to the page containing Richard Braintree's bio in the "He and the Victims" storyline. (Thanks to excuse17 on the Silent Hill Heaven forums for the translation.) It translates as follows:

Richard Braintree

"Hey, Richard's gone nuts again"

"He lost his temper this time"

"Next time would be more fun"

The residents of South-Ashfield Heights enjoyed talking about him.

He was famous for his short-temper.

It was the most terrible when Mike, the resident of room 301,

ran against Braintree in his shoulder at the corridor of the apartment.

Mike didn't mean for it happen, but he just ran into him, unfortunately.

At the time Richard was more moody than usual.

He yelled "Who the hell do you think you are?!" and dragged Mike into his room, Room 207, by grabbing the collar of his shirts.

"Not again" said the crowd of the apartment, and they went to Room 207 to see what was going to happen anyway.

Suddenly, the door opened and stark-naked Mike came out of the room.

Right after that, Richard came out of the room, holding Mike's shirts and jeans soaked in blood.

"How do you like that, you sick little freak? You had it comin' to you!" said Richard.

Mike run away from him.

Richard threw away Mike's clothes and said "These clothes are disgusting. Get 'em outta my sight!"

Then, a middle-aged woman in the crowd said, "I know...It'll be perfect to wrap his body in," and she took the jeans.

"Hold it! Hold it... I think I'll keep that one for myself..." said a drunk, and he took the shirts.

After that, Richard took a look at the crowd and noticed a little kid among them.

"You!! You snoppin' around again?!"

"Get your ass outta here before you really piss me off!" said Richard.

Apparently, Richard took Mike into his room, beat the crap out of him (which explains why his clothes were soaked in blood [they weren't literally soaked in blood, just bloodied]), and then "stripped" him naked while throwing him into the crowd gathering outside his door. I'm sure it was a demeaning and humiliating experience for Mike, so he ran away. Richard Braintree apparently kept Mike's underwear, as you find it in the Alternate Apartment Building in Room 207. (I guess Mike wasn't the only "sick little freak," now was he?) Mike's jeans went to the old woman whose cat had been killed by the gun-enthusiast, which she used to wrap its body in. I forget what happens to Mike's shirts. Mike later recants in his diary about how they were his best clothes.

That explains the story well enough to me. It was completely different from what I thought happened. I find this version much more creepy, fun and amusing than my idea, so it's going out the door...naked.

EDIT: If you're interesting in reading the rest of "Another Crimson Tome," which includes the "He and the Victims" story and the "Locations" descriptions, check here. (This is only a partial translation, but will be completed soon. You can read the non graphic translations on the Silent Hill Heaven forums.

[StarZander]

*bump*

We can't let this glorious (well, it was in it's younger days) thread just die out. We need to get some theories going here! SH4 didn't leave room for many though.

[Eccles]

THATS BECAUSE IT SUCKS LOL!!1

[The Instrument of GAWD]

oh, cool. glad this was revived, i'm near the end of SH3 (i think).

--Possible Spoilers?--

this time i'm predicting that the ending will be altered by the choice i had in the confessional and i didn't give Douglas his note book back yet.(just predictions, i'm playing without a walk through... first time around at least.)

i can understand how SH3 bothers some people, but i'm liking it. it doesn't give me the sense wide open lonely spaces as the other two before it did, and instant death moments didn't exactly sit well with me (took me three trys to figure out the roller coaster one).

after SH2 i was starting to think that none of the games were connected to each other, but i was kinda glad that this one did, and i sorta like Heather now as well.

--End--

[StarZander]

THATS BECAUSE IT SUCKS LOL!!1

Quoted for emphasis on LOL

[ifirit]

oh, cool. glad this was revived, i'm near the end of SH3 (i think).

I decided to revisit the games in the past week or so, after finishing SH4. (You know, to develop some theories about the connections to the games.) And, out of all the games, I've really enjoyed playing SH3. It's true that there are some weak points in the game, but overall the experience is true to the series, creepy in its own special way and does a great job of character development, unlike some games (SH4).

As to the issue of posting new theories on The Room, I'm unhappy with the direction that the developers pointed us, but since I'm having trouble stating anything right now, I'll just propose questions.

Silent Hill 1, 2, 3, Possible Spoilers

Silent Hill 4 Spoilers

1.) We know that Ashfield (and South Ashfield) is about a half-day's drive away from Silent Hill, what does that mean in terms of distance and actual time?

2.) What is the actual timeline of the series now that we can gage the time passed between SH2 and SH4? (Use the articles about Walter Sullivan's suicide from SH2 and Joseph Schieber's article on the Wish House investigation from SH3 as reference points.)

3.) If the events from the 21 Sacraments Ending are similar to those that occurred in Silent Hill many years ago, what really happened in Silent Hill? Were the mysterious deaths of the construction crews, during the tourist development era, part of another 21 sacraments?

4.) If the 21 Sacraments is successful twice, does that mean that there are additional Alternate Silent Hills around? What does this mean in terms of the characters and who is drawn into these alternate dimensions?

5.) Was Henry's room already in Walter's Alternate Dimension? Should we start refering to this as Alternate Ashfield, since it is somehow different from Alternate Silent Hill?

6.) Although we don't know how far the drive to Silent Hill was from Heather's apartment, do you suppose Heather lived in Ashfield as well? (I haven't verified it, but I've heard a rumor that you can see Heather walking the streets of South Ashfield from Henry's apartment window.)

7.) Is Henry dreaming? Why or why not? If it is a dream, does that mean that the other "Victims" are still alive? Are the portals enterances into other people's dreams?

8.) Why does Walter's body appear as a form of God? at the end of the game? Is this another premature birth, or is it the "Devil?" What is the significance of jumping into the black liquid? If you are actually going into the deepest part of Walter, is Henry in Walter's dream, or is he actually inside a part of Walter himself?

I hope to hear some of the responses to these questions, since I'm a little confused as to how they all tie together.

[Eccles]

THATS BECAUSE IT SUCKS LOL!!1

Quoted for emphasis on LOL

What?

I'm allowed to say Lol...

oh, cool. glad this was revived, i'm near the end of SH3 (i think).

--Possible Spoilers?--

this time i'm predicting that the ending will be altered by the choice i had in the confessional and i didn't give Douglas his note book back yet.(just predictions, i'm playing without a walk through... first time around at least.)

--End--

You'd think so, wouldn't you? Well you're kinda right.

There're only 3 endings in the game...Good, Bad and UFO (Which is the best VG ending ever).

It pretty much gets explained to you halfway through the final dungeon how to influence the games ending...but I wont ruin it further.

[StarZander]

6.) Although we don't know how far the drive to Silent Hill was from Heather's apartment, do you suppose Heather lived in Ashfield as well? (I haven't verified it, but I've heard a rumor that you can see Heather walking the streets of South Ashfield from Henry's apartment window.)

Heather lived in Portland. Not Ashfield. They say this in SH3, didn't you ever notice?

[ifirit]

6.) Although we don't know how far the drive to Silent Hill was from Heather's apartment, do you suppose Heather lived in Ashfield as well? (I haven't verified it, but I've heard a rumor that you can see Heather walking the streets of South Ashfield from Henry's apartment window.)

Heather lived in Portland. Not Ashfield. They say this in SH3, didn't you ever notice?

Common mistake. Heather grew up in Portland before Harry shot the "crazy occult guy". She moved after the incident. The name of the town where the first half of the game takes place is unknown. Many people overlook this fact and assume that it takes place in Portland. Now, stop doubting my information!

[StarZander]

6.) Although we don't know how far the drive to Silent Hill was from Heather's apartment, do you suppose Heather lived in Ashfield as well? (I haven't verified it, but I've heard a rumor that you can see Heather walking the streets of South Ashfield from Henry's apartment window.)

Heather lived in Portland. Not Ashfield. They say this in SH3, didn't you ever notice?

Common mistake. Heather grew up in Portland before Harry shot the "crazy occult guy". She moved after the incident. The name of the town where the first half of the game takes place is unknown. Many people overlook this fact and assume that it takes place in Portland. Now, stop doubting my information!

Alright alright, I shouldn't doubt you, but we all make mistakes. I've seen you do it too

But okay, here's a question...

Alessa was one of the children from Wish house, and she got her powers, but did she have them since birth, or did they evolve throughout her years at that place, just like with Walter?

Also, about Alessa... She seems to be a neverending cycle of rebirth (like a phoenix) because when she dies, she is reborn. She is both the mother, and the child of god, right? Been a while since I played SH3, but I think that's how they said it. But... Did this cycle begin with Alessa? Or were there others like her before her? And if not... Why did it begin with her?

[ifirit]

Silent Hill 1, 3, 4 Spoilers

There are several things that you are asking at once. First off, a correction, Alessa was born with special powers (Heather stated so in the car ride to Silent Hill). Walter gained his divine powers from the Holy Assumption, which occurred after his "death." The Wish House orphanage did not develop any special powers in any of its children (as far as stated in Silent Hill 4). Now, as to whether Alessa's powers came innately or from the god born within her, is a different discussion altogether. Also, Alessa grew up in the Gillespie residence, not the Wish House.

With regard to the cycle of reincarnation, this only occurs with the person who has god within them. In SH1, Alessa/Cheryl had god within her, thus Heather was able to be reincarnated from her/them. In SH3, god was transfered to Claudia, so the obvious conclusion would be that Claudia would bear the next reincarnation. However, something happened when Heather "aborted" god. I'm not sure if this weakened god's power, or if it prevented Claudia from being able to achieve reincarnation, but I assume the cycle stopped there. (Can't say for sure, but I think that is the case.)

I am pretty sure that the cycle of rebirth began with Alessa, as Heather explains that it was Dahlia first tried to summon the god by offering her daughter as sacrafice. It is also likely that this is true since it wasn't until just before the construction of the resort that the cult became active, revived from the ancient Native American beliefs as stated in the Lost Memories. As I've stated before, there is a difference between the religion of Silent Hill and the cult of Silent Hill.

Also, the cult has gone through several incarnations itself over the years. There was a small cult that appeared in Silent Hill at the beginning of the twentieth century that mysteriously disappeared (as stated in SH2). The second rebirth came during Dahlia's time, when the area was still just a small mining town. This cult reached a small peak then quited down during the construction of the tourist resort. The older members kept the cult a secret, while the younger members simply moved on to other things (as stated by Lisa). As an attempt to bring happiness back to the people who were losing jobs and the youth, the older members attempted to "bring paradise into the world" by bringing god into the world.

In this era of silence among the cult, whose numbers were cut down to the extremely devoted, they raised new children (Alessa, Claudia, the Wish House, ect.) However, after Dahlia's house burned down, Alessa had been lost and the attempt to bring god into the world failed (seemingly), the remaining few members of the cult scattered, with exception to the Wish House, which still operated directly until the cult's influence. Seven years after that, god awoke breifly and it sparked a revival among those who were aware of this event. The Wish House then became the central base for the cult.

It was here that Claudia spent the rest of her teen years. Claudia seemed to be the one who continued pushing the cult further and recruited Vincent to increase the cult's status and members. This was the third revival of the cult. The cult had three sects which made up it's members: the Holy Mother sect, the Saint Ladies sect, and the Vatiel sect. I know that the Vatiel sect was created some time between the arrival of Harry to Silent Hill and Claudia's taking over of the cult. (The Holy Mother sect ran Wish House. I believe Dahlia belonged to the Saint Ladies sect, though I could just be guessing.) It was under the oversite of Claudia that the persuit of the Holy Mother was founded. It was during this search that the cult gained enough status as to invoke the investigation by Joseph Schieber.

Walter Sullivan lived through most of this. He grew up during the time when Dahlia ran the cult up until just before Claudia took over. At that time, Walter had turned 18 and was no longer allowed to stay at Wish House, so he went to college. It would be 14 years later that Henry enters the picture. Only a short time after the events of SH3.

So, in conclusion, Alessa's cycle of reincarnation ended with Heather (which could have been carried on by Claudia). For the most part, it seems that the story of the cult in Silent Hill ends at the death of Claudia. It is possible that the story may have picked back up, if you believe that the 21 Sacraments Ending is the true ending of SH4. But, if you're like me, then you think that Walter failed and that is the end of the story. Until the next reincarnation of the cult comes back around.

[StarZander]

I'm not sure if that made me less, or more, confused. But I'm hoping for less.

The part where Heather "aborted" god, she swallowed whatever was in the pendant that she got from Harry. What was this pendant, and what was it that she swallowed? Where did Harry get this? (sorry for just adding questions, but I haven't played the games for a while, so I don't remember enough at the moment, to add to a discussion)

[ifirit]

Silent Hill 1 & 3 Spoilers

As you may recall, Heather uses the pendant to retreive the red jewel inside. She swallows this jewel, whichs prompts the following "puking" scene. Because of the research from the various books found all over the Alternate Chapel, we can assume that the red jewel was actually a piece of crystralized Agalophotis, a substance used in the exercism of demons and possessions.

The pendant itself is just an ordinary pendant made of silver. It does closely resemble the Saint Medalions from SH4, which have a picture of a mother and child engraved in it. As far as we know, there is nothing special about the pendant itself.

With regard to how Harry obtained the small sample of Agalophotis, it depends on who you ask. Some people, like myself, believe that it was just the same sample of Agalophotis from SH1 that you retreive, but are supposed to use on Cybil when she was possessed. But, if we assume that Harry doesn't use it on her, he will still have the sample on him after the Good Ending, which eventually crystalizes over time. Others, like DDE, believe that Harry did use the sample on Cybil to save her, but that Harry somehow also was able to obtain a secondary sample of the plant that is used to produce Agalophotis, and created the crystized sample himself. I doubt this theory since it requires a belief that Harry knows more than he should. Still, it's up to you which you believe.

[Vilecat]

About SH1/3 ending...

If you follow the story to SH3, in SH1 it'd mean that Harry didn't save Cybil but kept the Aglophatis.

... But i've been wondering for a while, if in SH1 Harry would've used the Aglophatis to save Cybil, and since in SH3 there's an ending where Heather doesn't use it and becomes possessed or something (kind of meaning if her dad wouldn't have been able to save any of that red stuff), what could happen? =P

[StarZander]

About SH1/3 ending...

If you follow the story to SH3, in SH1 it'd mean that Harry didn't save Cybil but kept the Aglophatis.

... But i've been wondering for a while, if in SH1 Harry would've used the Aglophatis to save Cybil, and since in SH3 there's an ending where Heather doesn't use it and becomes possessed or something (kind of meaning if her dad wouldn't have been able to save any of that red stuff), what could happen? =P

Didn't ifirit just cover all that?

[Masa_and_Mune]

i have not

[ifirit]

About SH1/3 ending...

If you follow the story to SH3, in SH1 it'd mean that Harry didn't save Cybil but kept the Aglophatis.

... But i've been wondering for a while, if in SH1 Harry would've used the Aglophatis to save Cybil, and since in SH3 there's an ending where Heather doesn't use it and becomes possessed or something (kind of meaning if her dad wouldn't have been able to save any of that red stuff), what could happen? =P

Actually, that is an interesting alternative to the two theories above. It is possible that if you believe that the Good+ Ending is basis for Silent Hill 3, then it is possible that the resulting ending is the Game Over (God is Born) ending, since there would be no Agalophotis to save Heather from Claudia.

Therefore, you would also have to consider that the true ending of Silent Hill 3 is that God? is born from Heather and that Claudia's dream becomes realized. Unfortunately, it's hard to say what happens after that, since in every previous encounters with God? resulted in it trying to kill the main character. This being said, it is possible that the god born from Heather would then try to kill Claudia.

Unfortunately, Team Silent did not give the players enough information to determine what would happen after the birth of God?. We just have to imagine the results. Therefore, if you want to believe that God? then creates paradise and all mankind is saved, then do so. There is nothing to really say that that doesn't happen.

As an extra idea to note about the series, I don't believe that the 21 Sacraments creates another God?, but creates another Holy Mother to birth God?. So, it just creates another host for it to exist in this world. An if you are considering what happens if you perform the ceremony several times, consider the case of Alessa and Cheryl. All it does is divide God?'s power between the hosts. I think then that this is why the Crimson Tome refers to the Sacraments as being "Herecies," since it divides God?'s power and brings it into this world unaturally.

As mentioned in the "Origins," god decided to be born between two people, not the other way around. So, though it is possible to bring god into this world, people should not, and that is why the religion created the Crimson Tome to counter any attempts to defy the natural order of things.

I need to stop now, this is becoming too much of a dogma, and less about general metaphysical ideas. I guess this is the reason why I didn't like the direction that the producers were taking the Silent Hill series.

i have not

Who are you? Are you trying to take my identity?

[Eccles]

Here's one that's been bugging me.

In the opening video (the one you see before you even begin to play the game) you see a ghost floating about in a room with a table/chair set. Later on you find that this is an actual ghost in an actual room in the game...in fact, it is the room in which you find your first sword of obedience.

What I'd like to know is why do they show this ghost? He serves no purpose to the game at all...he's just another regular run of the mill ghost...

[Ramaniscence]

I've played SH4 for like...30 minutes, max, because I just got it, but there's already something I don't understand.

Dude's been locked in his room now, for 5 days.

He has recurring nightmares, where his house is COVERED with rust, and blood, and faces on the walls.

His phone don't work, his TV don't work, all he's got in his fridge is chocolate milk and white wine.

So this guy's on the verge of insanity. He's gotta be. His got a 2 room apartment and nothing to do for 5 days straight.

So he's sittin' here, the door's shackled shut, he looks out the peep hole, and BAM, hot neighbor girl, sittin' outside his door, talkin' to herself.

What does he do? Just sits there. Nothin' big.

Now, I'm thinkin', I've been locked in my apartment for 5 days, and it's turning into Suvivor: The Room, and I see someone outside, why don't I...

BANG ON THE FRICKEN DOOR AND GET SOME ATTENTION.

I mean SERIOUSLY? What kind of person would just SIT THERE and watcha rescue attempt walk away?