Dafydd Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 I have a feeling this idea won't really be welcomed by the site staff, or it's already been done (or is covered by the submission standards), and the site staff has more than enough on their hands already, and as always, but here goes: How about an article in the site wiki on the top 10 most common reasons for submissions to get rejected, either 5 regarding production and 5 regarding arrangement/interpretation, or 10 each? Possibly even one listing the 10 most common ones for remixes that don't even reach the panel? I think this could be helpful to anyone who wants to submit a remix, and in the long run, if enough people read it before submitting, it might even make being a judge more fun (or maybe not, depending on what you think is fun, I guess). The article itself needn't be very long, maybe only a sentence or so for each of the 10 reasons. Ideally, the list would be compiled by judged who have been on the panel for some time (let's say a year or so) and who are either still on the panel or who left it less than a year ago. The reasons would be taken from the top of your head, not by going through the threads in the jd forum (unless a non-judge wrote the list, in which case this would be pretty much the only way to do it). I have a bad feeling about this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liontamer Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 We already have a top 22: http://www.ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=13470 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dafydd Posted May 26, 2009 Author Share Posted May 26, 2009 I knew you'd say something along those lines. It wouldn't hurt to put a link to that post from somewhere in the wiki though. The submission standards also don't mention the existence of a wip forum... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkeSword Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 That's because there IS no WIP forum. There is, however, a Feedback: ReMixes forum!!! (i.e. I agree, we should probably mention the WIP forum) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gario Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 Isn't that checklist that LT mentioned from the WIP forum (or Feedback: Workshop ReMixes...I'm not used to that name yet )? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoboKa Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 I think we also need a set of rules on how to critique other people's works...as there have been some issues regarding deconstructive criticism, which only serves to scare away potentially good remixers and makes other people less likely to add in their own crits. We need more TLC, not bashing. Also, we need a clearer statement on what makes a good melody, as me and several other people seem to be melody-challenged. Reason being is that not everyone learns by listening to other pieces of music, sometimes they need more guidance (I'm one of those people). Which also brings me to my last suggestion: I think it's time that we set up some form of one-on-one lessons, either through voluntary or paid incentives, as the wip forums and #ocrwip aren't sufficient for everyone. I mean, this site does make a considerable amount of money (for a fan site), surely there's some way to go about this. I know I'm not the most favored member of OCR, but please, consider my points. Thanks for reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dafydd Posted May 27, 2009 Author Share Posted May 27, 2009 I'm wondering if these people giving deconstructive crisitism are judges or not? I know once OCReMixer has showed up at least once more or less vomiting over a wip with little else to say. Obviously, not doing such a thing should be common courtesy and not something to mention in the site guidelines or forum rules. But the truth is, the difference between the best and the worst mixer in the wip forum is huge. Should the really good mixers refrain from commenting on the really bad wips in order not to scare them away? Should there be a wip playground for people who REALLY don't know how to mix? I don't see how it would work - the worst mixers usually think they're a lot better than they actually are, and being told you posted something in the wrong forum because it's not good enough would be as effective at scaring potential mixes away as anything. As for what makes a good melody, I'm not sure if there's a way to come up with a definition that everyone can agree on, and it's certainly not something I would ask OCR to do. I agree some people need more guidance, but the problem would pretty much solve itself if most people spent more time in the wip forum. I know I haven't been there a lot lately. But, and this might come off as disconstructive critisism, not everyone is capable of making good music no matter how much training they get, just like with anything else (becoming the world's fastest runner, an astronaut, or a magical wizard). If you don't have a feeling for what makes a good melody, then maybe writing music isn't the best choice for a career (just like if you don't notice if the drums and the melody in a song are playing at different tempos - it's happened right here on OCR). In your case, you have what it takes, even if you're not yet good enough to make something to pass the judge's panel. But not everyone does, I think. I like the idea about one-on-one lessons, but are you suggesting people who already have mixes on the site would offer lessons over the internet in exchange for money? That the judges should do it as a means of bringing in more money to keep OCR running? I'm not really sure where how much money OCR makes is of any relevance (also, it's barely making enough money to keep the ship sailing, as far as I've been told). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anosou Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 I think we also need a set of rules on how to critique other people's works...as there have been some issues regarding deconstructive criticism, which only serves to scare away potentially good remixers and makes other people less likely to add in their own crits. We need more TLC, not bashing.Also, we need a clearer statement on what makes a good melody, as me and several other people seem to be melody-challenged. Reason being is that not everyone learns by listening to other pieces of music, sometimes they need more guidance (I'm one of those people). Which also brings me to my last suggestion: I think it's time that we set up some form of one-on-one lessons, either through voluntary or paid incentives, as the wip forums and #ocrwip aren't sufficient for everyone. I mean, this site does make a considerable amount of money (for a fan site), surely there's some way to go about this. I know I'm not the most favored member of OCR, but please, consider my points. Thanks for reading. Well.. 1. A good melody is hard to define but often boils down to music theory. For music theory I recommend you taking some actual lessons or buying som literature on the subject. 2. one-on-one lessons doesn't benefit the one giving lessons and if we're talking about money you're better of finding a real teacher. OCR can't sponsor this since we're not really an organization that tries to CREATE remixers. The WIP forums and #ocrwip ARE the voluntary feedback. It's up to users to step up and make that feedback better. Oh, and we do not make a considerable ammount of money D: That's a lie! And let's face it, not everyone is capable of making fantasticular music. Not pointing fingers here at all but it's kind of a strange way to look at it if you're suggesting "everyone should have a chance" and that we "need to help". It's not a RIGHT to be a musician or remixer D: <3 u all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gario Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 A really good melody writing lesson, huh? If you want the short story, it's this: Write the line so it's as connected as possible. If leaps are involved (which they should be, for interests sake), try to fill the space of the leaps with connected notes inside the space. Also, please try to stay in the key as much as possible. That's the 'Melody-writing-for-nubs' guide (the short-short version). I could write something that's more in-depth, if you want, but that'll be 900$. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dj Mokram Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Should there be a wip playground for people who REALLY don't know how to mix? As the site will get more and more members, gathers more newcomers & aspiring remixers, it will inevitably get harder for dedicated WIP reviewers to focus on being fair & helpful. Because there'll be a flood of low & average quality work in this section, and so little real talent to come out of the crowd. That's the ransom of the success, even though being popular here rarely brings any kind of financial compensation... But after all, why should we ask for any? We're all here out of passion, and in an eternal quest to better ourselves at understanding each other throught a creative art process. And maybe in the course of the events, we'll join effort in the making of a better place for you and for me, and the entire human race... It's not a RIGHT to be a musician or remixer D: Got that right! But while I consider myself swimming in the low & average part of the pool, I still won't give up on making some 'fantasticular' music someday! ...and maybe even get paid for it, if I'm lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekofrog Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 I know the top issues with my mixes. 10. They're too awesome 9. They're too awesome 8. They're too awesome 7. They're too awesome 6. They're too awesome 5. They're too awesome 4. They're too awesome 3. They're too awesome 2. They're too awesome 1. They're too awesome That about does it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gario Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 I know the top issues with my mixes. ...and I'm sure those are the exact issues the J's complain about with your stuff, preventing you from ever being an OC Remixer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkeSword Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 http://www.ocremix.org/artist/4789/nekofrog <-- !??! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoboKa Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 Well..1. A good melody is hard to define but often boils down to music theory. For music theory I recommend you taking some actual lessons or buying some literature on the subject. 2. one-on-one lessons doesn't benefit the one giving lessons and if we're talking about money you're better of finding a real teacher. OCR can't sponsor this since we're not really an organization that tries to CREATE remixers. The WIP forums and #ocrwip ARE the voluntary feedback. It's up to users to step up and make that feedback better. Oh, and we do not make a considerable amount of money D: That's a lie! And let's face it, not everyone is capable of making fantastic music. Not pointing fingers here at all but it's kind of a strange way to look at it if you're suggesting "everyone should have a chance" and that we "need to help". It's not a RIGHT to be a musician or remixer D: <3 u all Well, at least you gave a detailed response there. I suppose that's enlightening, doesn't make me feel much better =p, but perhaps i will look into that theory thing. But one thing, re: your statement: "It's not a RIGHT to be a musician or remixer D:" Sure, it may not be an absolute right, but it sure as hell is not a privilege either...'cept I lack the means to support that argument because I'm tired. So on your face lol. Oh and I refute your claim that OCR doesn't make all that much money - I'm certain that DJPingish is swimming in a giant vault of gold bricks, just like Scrooge McDuck You lot of scandalous bigots! All!! ...jk don't hit me T-T <3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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