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The Evolution of OCR


Bahamut
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Cripes, such a harmless subject seems to be turning sour fast.

Alright, if anyone has anything against people critiquing music even if they don't have anything posted (hell, even if they don't compose themselves) get a grip. Seriously, composing and critiquing are not the same thing, by any stretch of the imagination - don't confuse the two. Being a composer helps critiquing, and critiquing music certainly helps composers with their own processes, but neither is a requirement for the other. Great critics do not need to be composers (and vice versa).

Don't judge the judges due to their 'posted music' count - in case you haven't noticed, the quality of OCR has increased substantially over the years and they are the ones to thank for that. The only thing they do is insist that the production hits a standard of excellence so the people don't need to listen to arrangements that sound like they were thrown in a grater.

If it's anyone's fault for the supposed 'lack' of imaginative music on the site, it would be the composers. From the current front page, here, it's easy to see that OCR still accepts imaginative, creative music - it's just that they want to make listening to it as easy as possible for the listener. If an experimental, creative music comes up and is rejected due to production quality, do you know what the composer should do? Fix the production of the song! Seriously, good production can only make a piece of music better, not to mention make the composer better (there are very few exceptions to this and I believe the J's take those special scenarios by a case-by-case basis).

Alright, I believe the pre-1000 music had it's charm, but I'm grateful for the heightened standards that have been imposed over the years. I don't believe that it's the judges fault that the 'charm' of the past has whittled away - it's the composers fault for not cleaning up their music. Don't be lazy, fix up your production problems; you'll be a better composer in the end.

EDIT: Huh, the one I was addressing was banned... for a month. Well, I guess he'll read it later, then :P.

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I think there's no question that production values and technology have improved, and that's only natural. But I don't think that overall arrangement quality has gotten necessarily better or worse on the whole. There are gems and duds in the old stuff and the newer stuff alike. Simple as that.

[Edit]If there's any difference in arrangement quality, it's likely due to higher standards and fewer duds making it through the judges now than was once the case. But I don't think that the really good mixes these days are necessarily significantly better, except perhaps in production values and technology used, than the really good ones from back in the day.[/Edit]

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I think there's no question that production values and technology have improved, and that's only natural. But I don't think that overall arrangement quality has gotten necessarily better or worse on the whole. There are gems and duds in the old stuff and the newer stuff alike. Simple as that.

[Edit]If there's any difference in arrangement quality, it's likely due to higher standards and fewer duds making it through the judges now than was once the case. But I don't think that the really good mixes these days are necessarily significantly better, except perhaps in production values and technology used, than the really good ones from back in the day.[/Edit]

I agree wholly with your edit addition.

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Yeah I've never really considered if I like the older music more than the newer music.

I'm going to stick with "I have no opinion either way" because I have always approached music by whether I like the way it sounds or not. I guess I mean...there's no "better" or "worse" for me, just "I like this" or "I don't like this" I probably don't have a critical enough ear to distinguish between older music I like and newer music I like.

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I've been thinking about this recently too - Mustin's first post has most adequately expressed what I would want to say. The music now adheres much more tightly to much stricter standards, and the result is generally better production quality - but it can be left there. My personal favorites are also from '03/'04, interestingly enough.

I do feel that these days with the different standards, certain genres are accepted far more easily than others - such as tracks which feature live instruments and/or vocals. I can understand why, because those tracks demonstrate a certain musicianship and will become harder to reject if they follow the standards of a remix well enough - but it also (for whatever reason) means that many other tracks seem to not be accepted as often (though we do still see them around from time to time). Of course though, it's hard to say something like this when I haven't heard all the tracks that have been rejected - but the end result either way is a certain trend toward some genres and away from others. Of course I'm not trying to say this trend JUST leads at times to (personally) boring music - there's also some new avant-garde kinds of remixes I HAVEN'T seen before, and I think DJP was saving a few of these up for recent posting to freshen things up a bit (the percussion mix, the bottle mix, etc). But those seem to be the exception and you get my point - the change in genres resulting from the new standards may be part of the change a lot of people talk about.

The other main thing I think has impacted the music over the years is what Jam brought up - the longtime members who remain on the site have definitely gotten a lot better in skill and focus a lot more time on detailing, while many other recognizable longtime members have left or don't seem to submit anymore. That changes the overall "sound" of the site too. There are a lot more floods of new submitters which can freshen things up, but there's something to be said for having a lot of recognizable artists submitting around here to look forward to. It was ALWAYS exciting for me to see a new Prot track on the frontpage, and things like that just don't happen much anymore. Some of that is probably a combination of me not being quite as "into" the newer music and just plain missing the old artists, but there's definitely more to it.

I also think the evolution of OCR goes much deeper than the music. It's on a much bigger stage now - it's a well-known site, it's officially made a soundtrack as an organization for a major Capcom game, and it has regular panels at conventions! Those are all awesome, crowning achievements, in my opionion - but they do lead to a number of things. One is that now, I'm seeing some artists are more regularly USING remixes as a conduit to gain attention to their other, personal projects, instead of remixing for the sake of the site and the music. This isn't necessarily a bad thing (though it can really get irritating sometimes) because usually these artists are what I'd personally label "top-tier" anyway (and it still leads to more remixes anyway), but it does contribute, for me anyway, to a certain change of atmosphere. More of these things are the stricter standards, the more vigorous promotion of site album projects on all fronts, the recent final mix removals and cleanup, the changes to the site design, the recent (and already well-talked-about) changes to the forums, and changes in the style of the mix release writeups. It all lends to making the important transition to the appearance of a more professional organization, but I also feel a lot of that takes away from the community togetherness and devotion to music the site once had. I think these changes in atmosphere can easily get mixed up with how much people like the new music (as it, too, is part of the site) - and many people don't like the new music as much as a result - but I'd call that just another reason and not the only one.

Just some thoughts, didn't mean any offense.

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What? Thasauce is still up.

And well! ThaSauce.net just had a HUGE update that I've been meaning to make a post about once I clean it up a bit more, and ReMix:ThaSauce is next on the list for a full recode.

One thing that's very important to mention though is that R:TS is NOT "dead" because I'm not paying attention to it, or approving new remixes, R:TS isn't moving BECAUSE NO ONE IS SUBMITTING ANYTHING. The queue is EMPTY right now. Maybe there's fall through, I don't know, but if no one follows up on that I don't know either :|

The music is out there, I'M just not getting it. I do what I can to go out of MY WAY and email people in the WIP boards, and sometimes the judges decisions boards (though it gets hard when you don't have a link to the actual mix. I can usually get a good idea whether R:TS'll take it based on the judge's decisions though.) I know some other people like Rozo on the WIP boards make sure to point people to R:TS when they feel it's appropriate, but it's just not enough.

The site is only as active as it's users. Songs aren't going to magically appear on their own if no one submits. And no one will ever consider it viability until it gets some REAL actual content. Sure the design could use a little work, and I'm working on it, but it still needs content.

There is absolutely NO REASON to NOT submit your music to R:TS. The more people that can hear your music the better.

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Cripes, Rami, your right! I never thought of it that way...

I'll get something for you today - it's being processed at OCR, atm, but there's no harm at having it at R:TS, as well. Gotta support the music sites out there :).

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I think there's no question that production values and technology have improved, and that's only natural. But I don't think that overall arrangement quality has gotten necessarily better or worse on the whole. There are gems and duds in the old stuff and the newer stuff alike. Simple as that.

[Edit]If there's any difference in arrangement quality, it's likely due to higher standards and fewer duds making it through the judges now than was once the case. But I don't think that the really good mixes these days are necessarily significantly better, except perhaps in production values and technology used, than the really good ones from back in the day.[/Edit]

Thread winner, right here.

I also do think that it's sad that a lot of 'no resubs' don't take the time to fix up otherwise awesome mixes. The judges panel is there to help people, but mixers have to meet them halfway. I personally owe the panel a lot for not only encouraging me to step up my game, but giving me some direction to get there. There was a lot of frustration in learning to do some of this stuff, but a lot of fun too.

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I think most of the mixes I really enjoy are newer, in the 1k+ range. There are some golden oldies too, but I agree with Wes that some haven't aged well. It could also be because as I've learned more as a producer, I've realized that some techniques I thought were basically magical are really quite simple. Arrangements have definitely gotten better across the board though; there's almost no question about that. The early years of OCR had a ton of covers.

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Repeating a couple people here, but I'd say the only thing that has changed about the remixes we post now is that we enforce a set of standards more uniformly. There are plenty of mixes from the pre-1000 era that could be posted today, but you'll also find great arrangements with so-so productions, or great near-covers, or goofy stuff that makes you smile even though it's short or repetitive. I still like a lot of that stuff, but it makes sense that over time the site would find its niche and try to perfect that, and in addition, the increasing volume of subs meant that it made sense to gradually raise the bar to devote the same attention to the ones we pass. Certainly something lost, but a lot gained.

Keeping in mind that I only started submitting and lurking in 2003, I think the much more impactful change has been the ever-growing size of the site and community.

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I have to say, I take great offense at the title of this thread.

To reflect everyone's views, it should be retitled "The THEORY of the evolution of ocr"

evolution has never been proven

I agree, can't you for a moment stop to consider the possibility of ocremix being created through Intelligent Design? Seems at least as valid as this so-called 'evolution'

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I've been floating around OCR since late 2003. The quality of the music has improved greatly since then. Its astounding to hear the differences between mixes being released then to those being released now. However the facade of putting together professional quality work has hurt some of the fun. The older mixes often have something behind them that makes them more enjoyable. They were more casually made, and have more imperfections. The next step will be to recreate the fun of the older mixes with the quality of the newer ones. Admittedly the lack of similar communities at the moment is probably hurting some of the creativity. I am excited to see what is going to come to OCR and happy for past accomplishments.

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To reflect everyone's views, it should be retitled "The THEORY of the evolution of ocr"

evolution has never been proven

I agree, can't you for a moment stop to consider the possibility of ocremix being created through Intelligent Design?
No. Intelligent design is stupid, evolution has been proven, and this site is a result of various useful parts coincidentally coming together over the millenia to form what is known today as Overclocked Remix. You should all know that.

Get with the times people, geez...

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No. Intelligent design is stupid, evolution has been proven, and this site is a result of various useful parts coincidentally coming together over the millenia to form what is known today as Overclocked Remix. You should all know that.

Get with the times people, geez...

Heh, Evolution vs. ID or Creation or whatever is an argument hotter than whether Peanut Butter or Jelly came first. It's also a topic that everyone has an opinion on, and right or wrong in it can't easily be determined yet. Also Faith comes into play for some.

Oh wait, we're talking about a different usage of the word Evolution, when applied to structures in a smaller non-aeonic timeline.

Nevermind. :tomatoface:

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