A Realm Reborn: Final Fantasy XIV Online

[DusK]

Generalization, again. I guarantee you, if that's all the game was full of, I wouldn't be playing it.

[EdgeCrusher]

I love WoW players cause they are about the close-mindedest people around. All you hear is them talking about "Oh, EQ sucks, Oh FFXI sucks, Oh Guild Wars suck". They think their precious WoW is the end all be all, when in fact, just about every MMO sucks. The fact is WoW is the Hot Topic of of MMOs, but from the look of your sig, you seem to fit right in with that horrible crowd. It's horrible graphically, and gameplay wise too. Plus the community in general is about as great as a 1st grade class room full of asperger monkey children. Just because something is "popular" doesn't mean its great. If that was the case we'd all be on AOL right now.

[Bleck]

yeah see basically any game that forces you to do a bunch of boring shit before it actually gets entertaining is a shitty game

[DusK]

I love WoW players cause they are about the close-mindedest people around. All you hear is them talking about "Oh, EQ sucks, Oh FFXI sucks, Oh Guild Wars suck".

I never said that. I still play GW, I don't think that sucks, I actually think it's really good. And I did like FFXI's battle system in the fact it still felt like a Final Fantasy game and not every other MMORPG out there. All I said is that WoW is still superior in terms of overall gameplay.

They think their precious WoW is the end all be all, when in fact, just about every MMO sucks.

I guess it all depends on what you want out of games. I guess that's how opinions work.

The fact is WoW is the Hot Topic of of MMOs, but from the look of your sig, you seem to fit right in with that horrible crowd.

Yeah dude, I play in a metal band, so that automatically makes me a Hot Topic clone.

It's horrible graphically, and gameplay wise too.

1st part yes, second part no. WoW has far more diversity in its gameplay than any other MMO I've played. The massive amount of content keeps things interesting.

Plus the community in general is about as great as a 1st grade class room full of asperger monkey children.

You must've played Alliance. It's generally not like that Horde-side.

Just because something is "popular" doesn't mean its great. If that was the case we'd all be on AOL right now.

So why did WoW's player count skyrocket while FFXI's player count plummeted? Or am I supposed to believe that just because people stop playing a game doesn't mean it's bad?

[Bleck]

opinions

oh god you're one of these idiots

So why did WoW's player count skyrocket while FFXI's player count plummeted?

same reason so many people play halo 3 over team fortress 2

because people

are

stupid

[Arek the Absolute]

i was gonna use a final fantasy example but yours is actually better

but anyway yea what bleck said

people are pretty fucking stupid

[DusK]

As far as I know, TF2's population never dropped. Halo 3's did, though. If a game's good, people don't stop playing it. Unless, of course, something better comes along.

Am I gonna get a decent argument out of you guys, or is it all gonna be "WoW players are stupid and WoW sucks end of story lalalalalala"? Cause all I'm seeing are piss-poor arguments and unmerited bias. The only one of you that's come close is EdgeCrusher, and his was still more hate-spew than anything.

I'll make this easy for you guys. Explain how FFXI is better than WoW. Educated answers preferably, none of this "omg everyone who plays wow is stupid because i said so" crap. Examples of gameplay mechanics, community interaction, ect.

Or is the "close-mindedest" person the only one who's capable of civility in a debate?

[Arek the Absolute]

hey guess what

wow sucks

[EdgeCrusher]

Why is FFXI better? Cause its not WoW. That's why.

[Bleck]

Explain how FFXI is better than WoW.

yeah see basically any game that forces you to do a bunch of boring shit before it actually gets entertaining is a shitty game

hoidoihoidoi

[DusK]

I guess that argument is understandable. If every game with a lengthy tutorial section is "shitty." But to people who haven't done those sections, it's usually what hooks them.

But, let's see. You can start doing instances at around level 15, which is pretty much right around the time you'd get done with the tutorial-ish quests of the game. And then around 17-19 is a good time to start doing BGs. So yeah, if you don't think dungeon-diving with a party or don't think PvP is fun, it would take a while to get into something entertaining.

Then again, if the former is boring to you, how would you like FFXI? Most of the early game is getting into groups for the sole purpose of leveling. Not that I didn't mind it too much, but there's not much of a sense of progression as compared to an instance in WoW. You get in a group, go over to Valkurm Dunes or wherever you're grinding at the time, and just kinda... sit there. Wouldn't that classify as "a bunch of boring shit?"

I personally love instances (one of the reasons I love GW). I think they're one of the best aspects of the game, and I can't wait to get into raids.

[Malaki-LEGEND.sys]

Well whether we find WoW to be entertaining or not isn't much of an issue, as it has around 10 million subscribers compared to FFXI's paltry 500 thousand.

Square-Enix and the dev team have taken notice, and I'm sure they'll be taking a few ideas from it. This whole armory system for example sounds a lot like a skill tree system a la Diablo/WoW and the guilds sound like their way of incorporating instances into the game. I'm sure they'll just retool and bring a few innovations to the ideas that'll make 'em seem pretty fresh and Final Fantasy-esque(I.E. better than WoW) and good times will be had for all.

[Bleck]

I guess that argument is understandable. If every game with a lengthy tutorial section is "shitty."

grinding in an RPG is not a 'tutorial'

You can start doing instances at around level 15

if WoW was designed by people who actually new how to make a good video game than you'd be able to do instances from the very start, if that's the fun thing

Then again, if the former is boring to you, how would you like FFXI?

I never said anything about FFXI

if you can't defend your shitty game without denouncing another one than you must be really desperate

Edited August 11, 2009 by Bleck

[Arek the Absolute]

fuck grinding

also yea its kinda funny that he keeps doing that

[DusK]

Oh, I have no doubt that FFXIV could beat out WoW if Square-Enix gets it right. In fact, I HOPE it does. There were a lot of things I liked from FFXI that I missed when I played WoW (job system and battle system, for example), and I like the art style a lot more compared to WoW. I'm actually with tweek on this one.

I have high hopes for this title, and I'll definitely be taking a break from WoW upon its release to give it a whirl.

One of my main gripes is still the complex account setup. I'm actually reinstalling FFXI to see what's changed (I heard a LOT did in the past 4 years), and if Edge and Zeal are right about not having to buy another copy, I shouldn't have too much trouble getting back into the game. I still haven't finished installing PlayOnline; It'll take about 4 1/2 hours to update, so I'll just leave it running overnight and continue tomorrow.

[ZealPath]

WoW and FFXI are basically apples and oranges imo. FFXI is an old school MMO which is clearly based on the model of the original EverQuest, which is basically, go out and kill stuff, do the odd quest, and kill some tougher raid type mobs for the best loot. A tooooooon of your time is spent just grinding on the same mobs over and over again, and quests do not give experience points.

WoW is more like EQ2, do a shitload of quests, in some cases, the same ones over and over, and you'll level up. Now, presumably in doing many of these quests you'll also be killing things, but generally speaking, these things are easily soloable regardless of class (whereas if you wanted good exp in say FFXI, you want a party of 6). FFXI has actually tried to add something like this (it's called Fields of Valor), but it isn't really anywhere near as developed as what you have in EQ2 or WoW.

A lot of this is major generalization, but the way I see it, we have the casual friendly games, and the not-quite-so casual friendly games. The casual friendly ones are loaded with simple quests and generally easier to level up in, while the others are a little more focused on grouping/grinding to accomplish your goals. They all share the concept of raiding to acquire high end loot, with some of the progression techniques more interesting than others.

I prefer the oldschool type game a lot more, which is probably why I'm still playing FFXI, but I certainly got enjoyment out of EQ2 when I played it, just not in the same way I enjoyed EQ1. A lot of people, most people I would say, are the opposite, and just want to come home from work and do some quests and make meaningful progress without having to look for a party or whatever, hence the overall popularity of a game like WoW (in short, play what you like, and if you think something sucks, that's fine, we probably don't care though).

So to get back to FFXIV, it seems they are stepping away from grinding, if nothing else. I don't think anyone truly enjoys grinding so that's cool, for me, I just hope it's somewhere between hardcore group only grinding and painfully easy quests anyone can solo.

[Bleck]

WoW and FFXI are basically apples and oranges imo.

in the grander scheme of video games WoW and FFXI are more like applecores and orange peels

yeah there are weird people who eat them anyways but there is just much better stuff out there to be doing

[DusK]

This is a thread about MMO games. In particular, one about to be released, FFXIV. If you don't like MMOs, why would you come into a thread just to bash them? I'm sure there's "much better stuff out there to be doing."

I can definitely see where ZealPath's coming from as far as the apples and oranges thing. I guess I just preferred that questing element of WoW more. If FFXIV is indeed stepping away from the grind I knew in FFXI, it should end up being a very enjoyable experience.

I watched the trailer not too long ago and showed it to my girlfriend. She didn't like it when I said "Wanna quit WoW with me?"

[Bleck]

This is a thread about MMO games. In particular, one about to be released, FFXIV. If you don't like MMOs, why would you come into a thread just to bash them?

no actually this thread is about FFXIV, not MMOs

FFXIV, like all unreleased games, has the potential to actually be good

I could discuss what they would have to do to make an MMO that doesn't suck but frankly making people look stupid by pointing out how bad WoW is and getting them all in a tizzy is just too funny

[DusK]

So the only way a game is good is for them to put in what YOU'D want to see, and everything else is automatically crap. Gotcha.

[Bleck]

So the only way a game is good is for them to put in what YOU'D want to see, and everything else is automatically crap. Gotcha.

yeah see basically any game that forces you to do a bunch of boring shit before it actually gets entertaining is a shitty game

you haven't actually tried to dispute this fact which naturally leads me to believe that you can't

[DusK]

That's because I really don't see it. I'm having fun from the moment I roll a new character.

[Bleck]

I'm having fun from the moment I roll a new character.

that's because you're an idiot

which I think has been pretty heavily established already

[Arek the Absolute]

That's because I really don't see it. I'm having fun from the moment I roll a new character.

How is that possible?

warrior - auto attack till 10

mage- firebolt then auto attack cause you are out of mana till about 10

warlock - shadowbot then auto attack caus eyou are almost out of mana

fuck every class does that until they reach about 10 or above

that seriously is fucking boring as shit. just as you *stupidly cause you didnt fucking read correctly* called bullshit on me, i call bullshit on you. there is no way thats fun

Link to characters from the Armory? Or maybe some elaboration on what aspects of WoW suck compared to other MMO's?

Why is this necessary? I don't need to link you my characters to prove anything. And who said I am saying WoW sucks compared to other mmo's? All mmo's suck.

Edited August 12, 2009 by Arek the Absolute

[DusK]

So my taste in gaming makes me an idiot, simply because it differs from yours. Gotcha.

And you're a dickhead. Which has also been pretty well established.

EDIT: Didn't see your post, Arek.

If you're a warrior, and you only auto-attack until level 10, you're gonna die.

If you're a mage and you only use firebolt till level 10, you're gonna die.

If you're a lock, and you only use shadowbolt till 10, you're gonna die.

It's more complex than that. And it's fun when you're playing a new class, as it gets you up to speed on what playing style that class needs to succeed. 1-10 is pretty much there to get new players used to the game, or their class.

And even then, reaching 10 takes such a short amount of time it's almost negligible. Anyone who knows how to play the game can hit 10 in an hour or 2. Man, a lot must've changed since you stopped playing.

Edited August 12, 2009 by DusK
Arek posted