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Star Fox - Corneria... again.


Plazmataz
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Whether or not you know of it, there is another Corneria remix of mine floating around in WIP forums. And when I got my hands on some new world instrument samples, the first thing I started tapping out just happened to be, again, the Corneria theme. One instrument fell on top of another, and now I've got a couple minutes of (accidental and unfinished) remixitude. It's developed a great deal over the couple days, and I brought it here to get any ideas or pointers anyone may feel compelled to offer.

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It starts with some trippy sitars laying down some arpeggios, adds a simple kind of Oriental-sounding (I guess?) beat, and then commences with a poorly-though-out solo for a Japanese koto. And as if that weren't enough, the fiddle jumps in and has a few words. Then, as I always end up doing, there's a cello section to fill up the low end under a wiry synth that probably doesn't need to be there. There's a lot of original writing, but it does wind faithfully around to the theme as it progresses.

It has a number of issues where it stands. It's completely random (because it was built when I was trying out a bunch of totally unrelated new instruments), and it lacks direction and flow. I'm currently looking for ways to iron out this mismanagement. On top of that, I'm not sure how well these bizarre instruments blend with each other. Opinions on this topic would also be appreciated.

Oh, and I almost forgot, it has no ending. Suggestions, anyone?

EDIT: Version 2 (9/8/09)

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these sounds are pretty sweet, man. arrangement is really great too, especially once it starts to break into the Corneria chords. i was really getting into it. :grin:

I'd say keep going the direction you're going. you could start by bringing in the broken chords from the original track using one of your new instruments (i don't know how else to describe those little notes that are all over the place in the original corneria track). i think it would sound pretty cool. at the same time, i could see the main Corneria theme being a bit awkward considering the vibe you have going here. you don't have to stick to it if it doesn't work for your mix, though, there's plenty of other cool themes from the ost that you can try if you can't find a way to make Corneria work. the Corneria theme *could* work if you play it down, the way you played those string chords at the end of your track, maybe transpose the theme lower a bit so it matches and sounds a bit deeper and matches the feel of your mix. but all in all, the wip sounds great so far. this is a pretty unique take on Corneria. i think anyone remixing Corneria pretty much has to do something radically different when you consider what Wingless did with the first one.

looking forward to the update...

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Thanks, Theophany. It's good to hear that someone else does appreciate the unusual soundscaping, because it is pretty unorthodox. As far as moving forward with the track, I had half the random notes (the fifths that I've been throwing around for most of the song) going, but I think now would be a good time to introduce the rest of those chords, probably almost verbatim, from the original track. The fun part is deciding what voice to give it to.

And I think that the cellos that play the chords near the end need some sort of backup voice, lower in range, like you said. I'll see what I can do.

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Need more trippy.... delays, phasers, flanges.

Also I kept wanting the song to build into some sort of fusion-world-synthesizer-electronica climax of the main Corneria theme.

You got good samples with a solid sound in the mix. Give us some drums that would make Aphex Twin proud, some synth work to hyp'en it up and it think you got a winner.

But... that's JMO.

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Dude, that soundscape is pretty sweet. With that said, I'm honestly not hearing Corneria at all, except for the low string chords near the end of your track. I would suggest if you want to keep this section intact, you would want to put it after a round of the source. That should give it the direction and flow you are looking for. Then, with the Corneria chords you have at the end, lead back into a perhaps altered version of the source, where its similar but different. I like rig's idea of a phasor and some delays, at least on the drone. I'm personally not a flanger fan, because whenever I hear a flanger all I think is "oh its a flanger, that's nice" but that's just me. Oh, and get a better kick drum, this one almost sounds like you stole it from a dance kit. Basically, I dont' feel like it belongs with the rest of the sounds. That was my only arrangement complaint, though. Otherwise, get some source in there and this could be awesome!

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Oh, and get a better kick drum, this one almost sounds like you stole it from a dance kit.

That's exactly what I did, actually. The one thing I've never really been able to do is build good electronic beats, so all I can pull off without making a total fool of myself if a lame kick drone.

...Yeah.

You know, if anyone has any pointers on how to work with drums, I'd really appreciate it. Because I don't really know anything about them.

Need more trippy.... delays, phasers, flanges.

Also I kept wanting the song to build into some sort of fusion-world-synthesizer-electronica climax of the main Corneria theme.

You got good samples with a solid sound in the mix. Give us some drums that would make Aphex Twin proud, some synth work to hyp'en it up and it think you got a winner.

But... that's JMO.

Well, I do plan on having the song build up to a climax, but all I have finished so far is the introduction, where the main voices make their melodramatic entrances. Although my concern is, as I said before, I'll never be able to get the drums to work with it, which is why the song is so melodically heavy up to this point, and also why I haven't progressed any further yet. Any help on that would pretty much make me giddy.

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Here are the best kept secrets (that I know) about getting a desired drum sound, each one of these is basically a plug-in you can use if need be:

1) Compression- compressors with harsh settings esp. on the kick will normally help get you that "in your face" feel. Place it over the whole of the drums (route each drums track-output to a bus, make the compressor on that bus... so kick - out to bus 1, snare - out to bus 1, cymbals - out to bus 1, etc. compressor used as plug-in on bus 1. This is not THE way it is A way, each project is different)

2) EQ- I tend (I stress tend) to EQ after the Compressor, helps correct adjust sound for whatever the mix needs. Most DAW compressors tend to dull the hi's so I use EQ to slightly adjust for this.

3) Reverb- Yes I said it reverb! Subtle reverb. Not trance, trippy effects reverb. I normally use an Impulse reverb to generate drum rooms or pumping sounds. Really make sure you use a decent plug-in (if not out board gear) because you are trying to basically simulate a room or recording area. Every room has a different sound.

Reverb and EQ can be swapped according to how you desire the sound to be, but play around with various settings. Presets are you friends but not your crutch, adjust everything to find your drums.

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  • 2 weeks later...
djp is going to love this.

I'm guessing because of the super-high frequency violin, since my Yoshi's Island mix gave me a name for doing high stuff (though I don't think I've repeated that much, really)...

It's a real interesting idea, and I can identify the Corneria chord progression pretty easily, but Corneria does also have a melody, and I'm not hearing that at all. I agree with the comment that the mix seems like it's building towards something... I think busting into the main melody on an ethnic lead of some kind, maybe tempo-delayed to fill things out, and having the drums fill out at the same moment, would steer this towards being more of a complete piece, as opposed to an idea/accompaniment. In other words, you've got a foundation with some promise, but it's time for a lead instrument, some melody, and some direction.

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^ Pretty much, yeah. I love the sound template you've got here, I'm an easy sucker for ethnic instrumentation. But man, this doesn't sound like Corneria at all. Even the *progression* really only occurs if you know to look for it because otherwise, I wouldn't have known what this was supposed to be a remix of, or that it wasn't simply an entirely original piece. That's cool if you want to be liberal, but if you plan on submitting it here, make sure that the original Corneria theme is identifiable and dominant are the words you're likely to hear from us J's.

Cool start, now quit being so subtle! :)

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I've taken all of your wonderful advice (many heartfelt thanks to those who provided it), and produced more song. Behold.

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Take note of the fact that the song is still not at the end yet. Before I'm finished, there'll be another few minutes after what you have here.

Aside from that, anyone have any thoughts? Is it working for you, or do I need to head back to the drawing board?

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I've taken all of your wonderful advice (many heartfelt thanks to those who provided it), and produced more song. Behold.

stats.png

Take note of the fact that the song is still not at the end yet. Before I'm finished, there'll be another few minutes after what you have here.

Aside from that, anyone have any thoughts? Is it working for you, or do I need to head back to the drawing board?

Dude you got DJP and BGC on this thread giving you advice.

This is DEFINITELY not gonna go back to the drawing board. :/

When you go into Corneria main melody, you should use a flute or something. That violin doesn't seem to fit in lead position there. Add some reverb and delay if you want to keep it. :/ And it's just shown once. Give it some dominance! Repeat it at least once. T_T

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As for repeating the theme, I already said the song isn't finished. If you think I'll cap off the song without recapitulating at least once, you take me for a sorry fool.

And to honest, the violin is already kind of drowning in reverb. It could take a little more delay, though, I suppose. But I think I'll look into some other voices for that lead; you make a good point.

And call me uninitiated, but it's probably just coincidence rather than some sort of merit that two judges commented on this track. :P

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As for repeating the theme, I already said the song isn't finished. If you think I'll cap off the song without recapitulating at least once, you take me for a sorry fool.

And to honest, the violin is already kind of drowning in reverb. It could take a little more delay, though, I suppose. But I think I'll look into some other voices for that lead; you make a good point.

And call me uninitiated, but it's probably just coincidence rather than some sort of merit that two judges commented on this track. :P

I call it fate.

But what is fate?

Is fate real?

What controls fate?

Does something control fate?

If so where does that something come from?

:/ Sorry I had humanities class and I've got some philosophy sickness.

Anyways, I heard (read) you the first time, I'm just saying when you introduced the theme as soon as it was over the parts had less energy into the ending.

I was assuming that you were just gonna put the theme once, than some low original part. What I mean is play the actual theme twice in one sitting.

Or maybe the parts were just low energy because it lacked ending. I dunno.

And don't be afraid to give percussion some shine too... it seems a little drowned out/weak mostly because (I assume) it's just a big drum with rim shots.

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And don't be afraid to give percussion some shine too... it seems a little drowned out/weak mostly because (I assume) it's just a big drum with rim shots.

I assume this is further proof that I suck at drum sequencing, because it's actually a complicated mix of three different drum kits, two of them ethnic in nature. :-(

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