Harmony Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 I really hate it when game devolopers put in levels that violate LOAC. Like in MW2. Damned military people and their acronyms....always forcing me to look stuff up > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brushfire Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Law of Armed Conflict. "Unlawful deceptive acts can include false surrenders, placing anti-aircraft artillery in hospitals, and misuse of the Red Cross or the Red Crescent. In a broader sense, the principle of chivalry incorporates basic concepts of morality, military honor and human decency, whether or not specifically articulated in custom or treaty. " By putting a US Army soldier in a terrorist cell, with the full knowledge that the soldier would be commiting terrorist activities against noncombatants, the entire command that that soldier was working for in subject to punishment under the Geneva Convention of 1949, which in the real military is punishable under the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Now I may be looking into this a bit much, but still. The fact remains that this does not happen in the real military. At least the US one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadofsky Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Whatever, I'm just happy I saved myself 60 dollars from a game, and if my thread informed people who knew nothing about it then its even better. Even though I've never really looked into Metacritic on much games, one thing I've found interesting is this... http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/xbox360/modernwarfare2#usercomments The User rating has just now neared 6.0, and if you look through the numbers of ratings, not too many gamers are pleased (then again, could be fanboys INTENTIONALLY rating this game without having played it). Or even viral messengers trying to keep the game propped up. I know absolutely nothing about dedicated servers, or how bad or good a game is without them. Infinity Ward and Activision made truckloads of cash, but in the process, have had an impact on their reputation (at least Infinity Ward has). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlagshipAmadeus Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 The fact remains that this does not happen in the real military. At least the US one. At least not that we know of.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkeSword Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 The CIA doesn't care about your Geneva Convention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phill Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 I really wish this game was more realistic. I really hate it when game devolopers put in levels that violate LOAC. Like in MW2. The level where you shoot up helpless airport people. Yeah that doesn't actually happen in the military. Kind of offensive there. Also Snomobile chase wasnt that bad, but still. As much as you wish it to be true, the world is not, and has never been, that black and white. Now, I can't speak for situations where an individual is undercover with a terrorist group in a similar manner to the Airport Level, since it is rare for the public to ever find out about such operations, but it is naive for you to assume that all the civilian deaths in current and past military operations are "unavoidable". *just a note, I'm talking about civilian deaths due to so called "civilized" nation such as the US, Canada, UK, those that subscribe to LOAC. Now I am kinda curious how you developed the opinion that the military follows LOAC or similar conventions to the letter? Are you one of those guys that does research into the military, but only in the hero's? Or are you one of the fine men/women in uniform that have yet been introduced to the reality of war and still believes the pamphlet? Or are you just that naive? I know absolutely nothing about dedicated servers, or how bad or good a game is without them. It really depends on what you want out of a game, I do admit not everyone will see the benefit, but there is a distinct difference in the online experience. If you really want to find out, I'd pick up COD4:MW and try the multi-player out. Even if you don't see the difference, you get an awesome MP and SP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The wingless Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 At the risk of somehow deluding the nature of the conversation at hand, gentlemen, let me ask you a pressing (yet absolutely poignant) question: Did you just fucking put baby in the corner? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brushfire Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Now I am kinda curious how you developed the opinion that the military follows LOAC or similar conventions to the letter? Are you one of those guys that does research into the military, but only in the hero's? Or are you one of the fine men/women in uniform that have yet been introduced to the reality of war and still believes the pamphlet? Or are you just that naive? Wow d00d. Just wow. While sometimes this may happen, it still makes the people who do this war criminals. Everytime it was reported, those involved were prosecuted under the UCMJ. This game is telling the general public that the US will not only condone terrorism, but actually participate in it. Just so you know, I am in the military. I know all too well about the reality of war. You know what the front line it like? D00ds standing around and occasionally getting a mortar fired his or her direction. Most folks that aren't Infantry or Security Forces are more than 60 miles from what could be conceived as the "Front Line." Also you point out that it is inevitable for collateral damage. Commanders have to take that into consideration.I do not know what the magic "acceptable" number is, so I can't go on further. It is always tragic when one of my brothers in arms die from roadside bomb, or other similar tactic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleck Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 At the risk of somehow deluding the nature of the conversation at hand, gentlemen, let me ask you a pressing (yet absolutely poignant) question:Did you just fucking put baby in the corner? more like the wangless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phill Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Yeah that doesn't actually happen in the military. While sometimes this may happen, it still makes the people who do this war criminals. Everytime it was reported, those involved were prosecuted under the UCMJ. This game is telling the general public that the US will not only condone terrorism, but actually participate in it.[...] Also you point out that it is inevitable for collateral damage. Commanders have to take that into consideration.I do not know what the magic "acceptable" number is, so I can't go on further. See the contradiction? but that really isn't important. Like you said, it happens, ideally it shouldn't, but collateral damage and specifically civilian loss of life, is expected and planned for. Whether or not it is properly dealt with is another matter all together but that risks turning this thread into something that should be in the politics forum. The No Russian level in MW2 is intended, I assume, to make you wonder if the ends justify the means. Problem is the MW2 story line seems to be a little convoluted and has a problem of revealing major plot points in the middle of a gun fight. Now I can't say how far a CIA agent in that situation would go, I don't think any member of these forums is really qualified to speak to that point, but it has been proven that terrorist organizations are willing and have gone that far. It is also accepted fact that the CIA has a bad habit of supporting the wrong group, the Contra, the Taliban, Gen. Fazlollah Zahedi during the Iran coup in the 50s, so it may not be to much of a stretch to say they would put an operative in that position. Just so you know, I am in the military. I know all too well about the reality of war. Ok, now I am curious what do you do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgeCrusher Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Haha, someone lecturing Brushfire on the military. This thread is GREAT!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleck Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 guys look how much I know about the CIA you guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SotSS Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 I don't get the whole "people complaining that they couldn't find a decent server to play on between all of the cheaters, the insular communities, and huge skill level disparities that the original game's community fractured into" thing. Here's how my experience has been with every FPS I've ever played online going back to Tribes in '99 (and note that I've never, EVER been a part of any clan or group of any sort; I've always been just a "join a server and play until I'm bored/need to quit for whatever reason" kind of player): I browse the server list, join a server with low ping and a good population of players, and I join it. Roughly 90% of the time that's it: I join, play and have fun. The other 10% of the time is comprised of 1.) me being kicked to make room for a clan member while on a clan hosted server, which I accept and move on to another server which takes me around five seconds to do, 2.) dealing with a cheater/griefer, which usually lasts somewhere around thirty seconds before he is banned (and if he isn't and the cheating becomes a real problem, the 'ol "leave and join another server in less than five seconds" thing comes back into play), or 3.) I discover that the server is full of douche bags, where my old friend "find another server in less than five seconds" comes to visit me yet again. COD4 is one of the few multiplayer FPS' I've actually not played save for a few rounds on the 360 at a friends house, so the whole cheaters/insular communities/clans thing could have been a big problem with that game, but I'm inclined to believe that it was more or less unique to COD4 for whatever reason, or else I've just had shittastically good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brushfire Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 See the contradiction? but that really isn't important. Like you said, it happens, ideally it shouldn't, but collateral damage and specifically civilian loss of life, is expected and planned for. Whether or not it is properly dealt with is another matter all together but that risks turning this thread into something that should be in the politics forum.The No Russian level in MW2 is intended, I assume, to make you wonder if the ends justify the means. Problem is the MW2 story line seems to be a little convoluted and has a problem of revealing major plot points in the middle of a gun fight. Now I can't say how far a CIA agent in that situation would go, I don't think any member of these forums is really qualified to speak to that point, but it has been proven that terrorist organizations are willing and have gone that far. It is also accepted fact that the CIA has a bad habit of supporting the wrong group, the Contra, the Taliban, Gen. Fazlollah Zahedi during the Iran coup in the 50s, so it may not be to much of a stretch to say they would put an operative in that position. Ok, now I am curious what do you do? I am aware that I contradicted myself. It would be naive to say that this has never happened in the military. I prolly should've clarified that it was not sanctioned by any command, that is why most offenders end up in Levinworth. And no the military is not blameless. It is just that implying that this is what the military does this on a regular basis, is down right wrong. As far as what I do, the short answer is a Computer Maintainer. The long answer is something I cannot discuss. Life is strange like that. Also, I totally agree that America has a habit of supporting the wrong guy. As far as Multiplayer goes, unless a game is designed specifically for multiplayer (UT2K4, TF2, L4D, etc), I usually dont play it online. I prefer a story focus, and none of this online rank/clan/tier crap that mucks up what could be a fun game online. Plus TF2 is the best online shooter. So there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phill Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Well, guess we agree, that means we can get back to the topic at hand, TF2 being the best online shooter ever which I kinda guessed from your sigs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Necrotic Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 They need to come out with a full-length release already. And I agree with everything you said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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