OCR TF2: Stab stab stab!

[Kiyobi]

Guys, I got plenty of random drops last night. Remember it's the RANDOM drop system, not the consistent-except-when-the-Steam-items-servers-are-having-trouble-drop system.

Quoted for emphasis. Sometimes when you roll the dice you win big, sometimes you lose big.

[FireSlash]

Valve has been working for a while on tweaks that would make idling unrewarding.

Maybe they've implemented them.

[Kiyobi]

SCREAMING EAGLES

[RussellChamp]

SCREAMING EAGLES

Oh... my... word. That was a super awesome sticky/rocket jumping video. That guy has some mad skillz. I wonder how well those translate to normal gameplay, though. Would super-mobility at the price of health be worthwhile and could you consistently do it on the spot in high-pressure situations? Either way, cool vid.

[atmuh]

Valve has been working for a while on tweaks that would make idling unrewarding.

Maybe they've implemented them.

i idled for a day and got like 10 items so i dont think so

[Vivi22]

Valve has been working for a while on tweaks that would make idling unrewarding.

Maybe they've implemented them.

Perhaps they should work on making just playing the game rewarding enough that you don't have to idle to get anything. And it wouldn't be hard to cut off item drops, or reduce the rate to something absurdly low after a player racks up something like 2-3 hours in a day.

I mean really, I'll grant that I only tend to play for an hour a day, maybe two or even three on really rare occasions, but even when it comes to crafting, I've only been able to craft the gunboats and a scottish resistance so far, with a couple of pieces of scrap metal on top of that, and that's only since they made crafting weapons easier. I understand that they want the item system to get people to play more, but they apparently want us to play 24 hours a day to stand a decent chance of getting an item drop we want, or even being able to craft something we want.

To me, there seems to be a big disconnect between how long Valve makes you play to get anything and how long a player should be expected to play without either idling or giving up their life.

And funny enough, I as reading Srilin's reports on some of the GDC presentations he went to, and both someone from Blizzard and Sid Meier discussed random systems similar to the drop system and how much players tend to hate them when they don't work the way they want even if they're perfectly fair, and how they dealt with them. I couldn't help but think of the item drop system while I was reading them.

[WindStrike]

So... anyone tried this crazy mod yet?

http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-great-class-dash

Got released a few days ago, turns TF2 into a side-scrolling game based on reflexes. Takes about half an hour or less and is overall quite fun (and challenging). Visually, it's amazing, especially the volcanic level. Fyi, it's not really a mod; it's actually a mappack, so it won't affect the main game in any way.

There are still a few bugs with regards to switching classes too much in short a time period, but it's still worth a try.

EDIT: Also, can we get a new map rotation? It's been on this one a while and although it's a very good one, it's getting really stale at this point.

[chivesontheweb]

Was just going to bring up the map rotation.

Along with all the basics I don't have to bother naming, keep ctf_doublecross for sure. Every balanced rotation needs a ctf map and doublecross is quite popular. Whatever you do, don't put 2fort back in.

koth_harvest_event was cool the first couple times but at this point I'm burnt out. A lot of people don't seem to like this map, myself included. I love pumpkin bombs a lot, but it's so dark on my screen. By the time I can tell which team a shadowy figure is on, a Scout has killed me. If we have to keep koth_harvest, can we at least go back to the normal version?

cp_fastlane, we've had it in rotation before but I don't recall how people felt about it.

cp_yukon_final gets a lot of crap from players in-game but a number of people such as me really like it. I'd like to hear from people what they think of the map because I get mixed messages.

Sawmill maps are pretty eh, but I could tolerate one for a couple weeks. Might be worth it to have some diversity.

ctf_well, some people hate this map. I'm indifferent, although cp_well is fun sometimes.

cp_waste. I like this map, but it's custom so that scares non-regulars away. We rtv away pretty often but it doesn't seem hated by all or anything like that. If we wanted to bring some diversity into the rotation we could swap this out for another cp map or something?

Okay. So that's a start. Let's get a discussion going so we can make the majority of us server regulars happy.

[atmuh]

ctf_doublecross

doublecross is such a poorly designed map as i can sit in the back as a sniper and cover basically the entire map and get a pretty ridiculous score without too much effort

itd be quite nice to see turbine again as it is by far the best designed ctf map

koth_harvest_event

really needs to go especially now that on it all certain people do is melee only heavy and when theyre on my team it really gets on my nerves

cp_fastlane

great map would love to see it again

cp_yukon_final

i like it but most people dont

i think it should be removed

Sawmill

awful fps and really not a good map please no

ctf_well

gets rtvd a lot and a lot of people hate it

im ok with it but id say it needs to go

cp_waste.

gets rtvd the most out of anything

really needs to go

maps id like to see in the rotation

ctf_turbine

cp_fastlane

koth_nucleus in place of harvest

maps id like to see on the server itself to rtv to

pl_cave_b6 <-- for nostalgia purposes

cp_aqua - awful map but i miss playing it

oh yeah and the pl and a/d cp maps really need to not be right next to each other

id also like to see votecrits to permanently set crits until the next votecrits vote, and if crits are turned off to also disable the random damage spread (as that is much more annoying than crits)

[ParanoidDrone]

Without naming specific maps because I don't want to take forever writing this, I think the rotation should consist of a core set of maps that are consistently popular and/or can be used to fill the server if need be, with a secondary set of maps that can be swapped in and out with relative impunity to spice up the rotation when it starts getting stale. They should probably always be on the RTV list, though. I may make a list later when I have more time/feel like it.

As far as customs go, I think they should be relegated to RTV status. That way we only play on them when a plurality wants to, which should help prevent them from emptying the server consistently. The same probably goes for Arena.

[chivesontheweb]

doublecross is such a poorly designed map as i can sit in the back as a sniper and cover basically the entire map and get a pretty ridiculous score without too much effort

itd be quite nice to see turbine again as it is by far the best designed ctf map

Turbine is obviously better in design, that's why it's big in the European competitive leagues, but how it usually plays out in our little pub is pretty bad. I think it's the middle area, mostly, where one team will get a sentry nest going thereby locking the other team into their spawn/intel area. Ideally this can be solved with an uber but things rarely work out "ideally". Doublecross has that large, open middle area separating the two sides. A good sniper can lock down most of it but the typical round still flows better than on turbine. So I think it's a better 24-person pub map.

So the idea is we replace yukon with fastlane in the rotation? That could work.

It's been a long time since I last played nucleus but I know I used to love the map. We should totally use it in place of harvest, which I know we are all tired of.

Without naming specific maps because I don't want to take forever writing this, I think the rotation should consist of a core set of maps that are consistently popular and/or can be used to fill the server if need be, with a secondary set of maps that can be swapped in and out with relative impunity to spice up the rotation when it starts getting stale. They should probably always be on the RTV list, though. I may make a list later when I have more time/feel like it.

That's almost exactly how I think of it. As far as core rotation maps go,

ctf_doublecross or ctf_turbine

cp_badlands

cp_granary

cp_gravelpit

cp_dustbowl

pl_badwater

pl_goldrush

Maybe even cp_steel. We have a fetish with that map. :3

The 'swaps', well, that's obviously everything else.

As far as customs go, I think they should be relegated to RTV status. That way we only play on them when a plurality wants to, which should help prevent them from emptying the server consistently. The same probably goes for Arena.

Arena should never go in our rotation directly, for sure. It depends on the customs but as a rule of thumb they are bad news bears. Sometimes people would enjoy a custom map, though ,and if they aren't in the rotation they will never be seen. It's a trade-off.

Do we have the current map rotation available somewhere I can reference to?

[Powerlord]

Do we have the current map rotation available somewhere I can reference to?

koth_viaduct

cp_granary

pl_badwater

cp_dustbowl

cp_yukon_final

cp_gravelpit

cp_gorge

pl_goldrush

ctf_well

cp_badlands

cp_steel

ctf_doublecross

koth_harvest_event

cp_waste_v2

The list of all stock maps is:

arena_badlands

arena_granary

arena_lumberyard

arena_nucleus

Arena_Offblast_final

arena_ravine

arena_sawmill

arena_watchtower

arena_well

cp_badlands

cp_dustbowl

cp_egypt_final

cp_fastlane

cp_gorge

cp_granary

cp_gravelpit

cp_junction_final

cp_steel

cp_well

cp_yukon_final

ctf_2fort

ctf_doublecross

ctf_sawmill

ctf_turbine

ctf_well

koth_harvest_event

koth_harvest_final

koth_nucleus

koth_sawmill

koth_viaduct

pl_badwater

pl_goldrush

pl_hoodoo_final

plr_pipeline

tc_hydro

[ParanoidDrone]

This may or may not be my place, but if the order of maps in the rotation reflects the order they appear in, then some special attention probably needs to be given to how they're arranged. I mean, having GoldBowlWater all in a row followed by a string of 5CP and KOTH probably won't go over well.

That was probably a massive case of stating the obvious.

Speaking of GoldBowlWater, the core set, as I envision it:

• Dustbowl
  
• Gold Rush
  
• Badwater
  
• Gravelpit
  
• Badlands
  
• Granary
  
• Viaduct
  

Viaduct will probably raise a few eyebrows, but I am not joking when I say that I cannot think of any regulars who simply do not like it. And I'm personally not too fond of Granary compared to other maps, but it's been in the rotation since forever and there are definitely worse maps out there.

Something that just came to mind: On some other servers I've been to, when a map change starts approaching, a vote automatically comes up for the next map. Although implementing it definitely "sounds suspiciously like work," it may be worth it to avoid potential issues with having to manually edit the rotation every few months.

[Powerlord]

Viaduct will probably raise a few eyebrows, but I am not joking when I say that I cannot think of any regulars who simply do not like it.

Except me, right?

Although it's only a moderate dislike, unlike some other standard maps I can name (tc_hydro, ctf_turbine, cp_dustbowl...)

Something that just came to mind: On some other servers I've been to, when a map change starts approaching, a vote automatically comes up for the next map. Although implementing it definitely "sounds suspiciously like work," it may be worth it to avoid potential issues with having to manually edit the rotation every few months.

Actually, it's easy... it's literally a 2 line configuration change.

The trick to it is setting the vote to take place 6 minutes prior to the end of the map, or else the vote may not kick off, or finish before, an automatic map change.

We did this once before, and I seem to recall getting complaints about it.

[ParanoidDrone]

Except me, right?

Although it's only a moderate dislike, unlike some other standard maps I can name (tc_hydro, ctf_turbine, cp_dustbowl...)

Actually including you, because I didn't know you didn't like it.

Actually, it's easy... it's literally a 2 line configuration change.

The trick to it is setting the vote to take place 6 minutes prior to the end of the map, or else the vote may not kick off, or finish before, an automatic map change.

We did this once before, and I seem to recall getting complaints about it.

What kind of complaints?

[Dyne]

Speaking of GoldBowlWater, the core set, as I envision it:

• Dustbowl
  
• Gold Rush
  
• Badwater
  
• Gravelpit
  
• Badlands
  
• Granary
  
• Viaduct
  

Viaduct will probably raise a few eyebrows, but I am not joking when I say that I cannot think of any regulars who simply do not like it.

I like that rotation a lot. A lot of variety. Now some might not like Double Cross but more so 2Fort, so I maybe there should be a list of monthly rotation maps which come in every other month, or every other week as is seen fit.

Playing 2Fort once in a while isn't bad. Every single rotation though, that's madness.

I say go for it.

[atmuh]

i cant stand viaduct

and yeah i used to run my server with end of map vote it was nice because wed end up playing a much larger variety of maps while still playing the main core of maps the most

[SporkNinjaDraken]

you know as much as I dislike Egypt I'm kinda missing it just because we seem to be playing the same maps over and over...

I miss that random bit of variety we used to get every other week when a random custom map would wander into the rotation then disappear off for a proverbial cup of coffee only to return a few weeks later.

I just think I'm fed up of a set list and prefer a more dynamic one also I haven't seen gorge in the last 3 days and I believe I've played Dustbowl 20 times in the last 2

edit: also Viaduct sucks.

[Bleck]

viaduct is awesome you guys are poop!!

[Brushfire]

I like Koth maps, they make the Pyro a useful class.

[chivesontheweb]

I love how Brushfire has these tiny little posts and this humongous signature. :>

And yes, Viaduct should stay. It has the potential for great games and is arguably the most fun of the koth maps in general. I love nuclues but sometimes it's really tough to get the...less motivated out on that middle point. You're really vulnerable there.

[Powerlord]

What kind of complaints?

Complaints about how sometimes a vote would come up with a bunch of maps everyone hated.

[ParanoidDrone]

And that's any different from the next map in rotation being disliked...how?

As far as Viaduct goes, I like it because I always do pretty well there. So no, totally not self-motivated at all, I swear. <.<

[Powerlord]

And that's any different from the next map in rotation being disliked...how?

Because it has no logic to separate customs from built-in maps.

So, sometimes it would offer up a vote that was all customs.

That combined with Sourcemod's restriction on how often map votes can happen usually meant you were forced to go to a custom map no one really wanted at the end of the current map.

[ParanoidDrone]

Ah.

I guess a totally cheapass solution would be to make sure that NumCustoms < NumVoteOptions?