E3 2010: Microsoft

[Bleck]

is there anything in that list that everyone who has ever played an xbox did not immediately glean from the pictures

I mean the only things you can't tell just by looking at it are built in wifi and bigger hard drive

well except the chipset I guess but I am convinced that everyone is just pretending to care about that

[Schwaltzvald]

is there anything in that list that everyone who has ever played an xbox did not immediately glean from the pictures

I mean the only things you can't tell just by looking at it are built in wifi and bigger hard drive

well except the chipset I guess but I am convinced that everyone is just pretending to care about that

If they break in a matter of a month or two I'd like to know what the fuck were those chip sets/what the fuck are the owners doing.

A bigger shame out of it all is that the D-pad looks like it has not changed one bit.

[Bleck]

I don't think the controller is any different save for being gloss and all black, unfortunately

[prophetik music]

is there anything in that list that everyone who has ever played an xbox did not immediately glean from the pictures

I mean the only things you can't tell just by looking at it are built in wifi and bigger hard drive

well except the chipset I guess but I am convinced that everyone is just pretending to care about that

hey bleck, you don't know anything about what you're talking about...at all. maybe you should just say "i don't really like microsoft's products" and go away.

os, i've known about the slims (as have most 360-based game studios) for about four months now, and to be honest there's a lot changed about them other than the glossy exterior, a bigger hard drive and wifi. the biggest change is the chipset update - the jasper chipset (65nm) kicked the RROD problem in the ass, with squaretrade reporting that in the two years that they've been out fewer than 1% have failed, of any problem. period. that's 600% less than PS3s and 500% less than wii's failure rate. now, they've unified the cpu and the gpu into one integrated chip, and made it with 45nm tech, which both reduces the power requirements by almost 40% (down from 203, 164, or 121 watts per version to around 80 or so) and reduces heat by ANOTHER 40% beyond the jasper.

so what?

so this system is half the volume while running, is cool enough to stack with other stereo components in a cabinet and have no ill effects (unlike the ps3 and the gamecube+), and uses 40% less power than the previous jasper model, 60% less than the slim, and about 10% less than your average HDTV.

there's also the fact that they sped up the hard drive a little (spins around 7200rpm now instead of the 5900 that it has since inception), updated the disc drive, and updated the controller (shoulder buttons are more resilient now, triggers feel less stiff and last longer, and all the face buttons including the d-pad is more responsive). lastly, they integrated a significant amount of the power brick and interface plugs into the case, so the power jack's way smaller, and there's an optical plug built into the back now.

so, that's what the slim is. i think i'll probably be getting it.

[Schwaltzvald]

"i don't really like microsoft's products" and go away.

I know it was directed towards bleck but I have to say this isn't usually the case for some 360 haters; or in my case at least. Thing is I actually enjoy using M$ products except for the 360 on the basis that it shouldn't exist.

All this gaming concentration should have been focused on PC gaming. Considering they (M$) bothered to create the system, could have very well created comp parts under the M$ brand and drive said parts to become cheaper priced but high quality. This could have help spurn more gamers into not only building their own systems but also expand PC gaming in general.

I can understand if certain games from Ninty or Sony not overlapping but when a system such as the 360 exists where the PC could easily out do it as well as (usually had been the case) have titles that are better than the console version (TF2 oh so very much relevant) I'm finding my self asking why bother?

tl;dr - I dislike inferior products.

Strangely enough in regards to connection issues with the PSN, I can easily find people complaining about Live services being just as bad.

I suspect it has more to due with the owner's ISP/modem/router hardware than the actual services of either PSN or LIVE.

[Sir_Snooze]

hey bleck, you don't know anything about what you're talking about...at all. maybe you should just say "i don't really like microsoft's products" and go away.

os, i've known about the slims (as have most 360-based game studios) for about four months now, and to be honest there's a lot changed about them other than the glossy exterior, a bigger hard drive and wifi. the biggest change is the chipset update - the jasper chipset (65nm) kicked the RROD problem in the ass, with squaretrade reporting that in the two years that they've been out fewer than 1% have failed, of any problem. period. that's 600% less than PS3s and 500% less than wii's failure rate. now, they've unified the cpu and the gpu into one integrated chip, and made it with 45nm tech, which both reduces the power requirements by almost 40% (down from 203, 164, or 121 watts per version to around 80 or so) and reduces heat by ANOTHER 40% beyond the jasper.

so what?

so this system is half the volume while running, is cool enough to stack with other stereo components in a cabinet and have no ill effects (unlike the ps3 and the gamecube+), and uses 40% less power than the previous jasper model, 60% less than the slim, and about 10% less than your average HDTV.

there's also the fact that they sped up the hard drive a little (spins around 7200rpm now instead of the 5900 that it has since inception), updated the disc drive, and updated the controller (shoulder buttons are more resilient now, triggers feel less stiff and last longer, and all the face buttons including the d-pad is more responsive). lastly, they integrated a significant amount of the power brick and interface plugs into the case, so the power jack's way smaller, and there's an optical plug built into the back now.

so, that's what the slim is. i think i'll probably be getting it.

Xbox 360 is fully loaded with new features and still comes with everything you know and love. Here's a feature list to make sure you don't miss any of the newest Xbox 360 250GB parts.

Form Factor: Sleek, lean and gloss black finish with chrome accents. Place vertically or horizontally in any living room entertainment center.

Touch Sensitive Buttons: Turn the Xbox 360 video game system on/off and eject a disc with the swipe of a finger.

Whisper Quiet: Whether you're playing a DVD disc or from the hard drive, or navigating the dashboard, with the all-new and much quieter Xbox 360, the only noise you'll hear is your own laughing, cheering and playing.

Wi-Fi: Built-in 802.11n Wi-Fi for fast, easy connection to your friends and entertainment on Xbox LIVE.

Hard Drive: 250GB internal, swappable hard drive for even more storage. To access, remove the bottom panel by pushing the small tab toward the front of the console.

Kinect-Ready: Custom Kinect port on the back of the console that directly hooks up to the Kinect sensor for controller-free fun.

USB Slots: Five USB ports; three in the back of the console and two in the front for easy plug and play.

AV Connections:

AV Cable included for standard definition TV connection.

HDMI port for high definition TV connection.

Optical Audio out port integrated on back of console for AV system connection.

Power Supply: Smaller and more efficient. Xbox 360 250GB and Xbox 360 Original power supplies are not interchangeable.

Wireless Controller: The award-winning Xbox 360 Wireless Controller matches the console in all black with color-matched thumsticks and directional pad with a touch of gloss and chrome to complete the look.

Backwards Compatible. Your favorite accessories and games will work with Xbox 360 250GB. (Xbox 360 External Hard Drives and Memory Units are not compatible.)

Accessories. Customize your Xbox 360 250GB with matching black accessories, including favorites such as Controllers, Wireless Headset, Chatpad, Quick Charge and Play & Charge Kits and more. Get a look at a few of these today.

Key Internal Components Changes:

Fan: Moved from two small fans to one larger fan for improved acoustics.

Chipset: 45 nanometer and integrated CPU and GPU.

Wi-Fi: Integrated wireless capability.

So...why wasn't this what they first released? I figure that, five years on, Microsoft should be doing a bit more than glitch control and touch-up on their system. Like the fan. I mean, seriously - I assure you that Microsoft has heard tons of compliants about that food processor-esque fan in the 360. Why did it need the Jasper update in the first place?

And why aren't hard drives and games backwards compatible? Was it really necessary to bone people like that? I dunno 'bout you folks, but I'm still staying out of this-gen. I mean, honestly: my Atari 2600 is as old as me (25) and it's working just fine. I've replaced one paddle in its entire lifespan, and the paddle breaking was entirely my fault (I dropped it down a flight of stairs). I understand that things need to be tested and all, but I think there's something to the fact that hundreds of thousands of Ataris and SNES and NES and all those other machines are still goin', just fine; whatmore, they had about this long to get finalized, too (the NES was 1985, the SNES 1991 - the last model of NES therefore took about 5-6 years to get finalized. The SNES had 5 years until the N64. The 360 is going on 5 years [2005] and they're still doing major corrections to the device).

Maybe it's because there are more moving parts and sensitive electronics and whatevers, but the point remains: I play hundreds of hours a year on my Super Nintendo, easily. I have a TON of fun with that thing - I don't deny that the 360 contains a library of great games, but if the system's needing this huge an update, what's to say it won't need another one? Will I have to buy another one in 10 years? 7? 5? 3? By contrast, my SNES, which I got for Christmas in 1991, is still doing just fine, almost 20 years later.

Also, I dislike all the doodads attached to both the 360 and the PS3. I don't need to check facebook; I don't need to chat with my buddies; I don't need to hear tweets and play music and playback DVDs. I have a machine for that - it's called a computer. All this stuff does is take up HD space that I want to use to save things, like...you know...games. Give me Xbox Arcade (I love that thing; honestly, it's the most alluring part of the 360 to me), give me my games, and go hum quietly in the corner 'till I shut you off.

[The Damned]

I guess when you get something for free, there's a reason.

http://www.destructoid.com/e3-10-new-xbox-same-old-disc-destroying-problems-176508.phtml

Oops. Guess they haven't figured out how to fix that yet.

[Schwaltzvald]

I guess when you get something for free, there's a reason.

http://www.destructoid.com/e3-10-new-xbox-same-old-disc-destroying-problems-176508.phtml

Oops. Guess they haven't figured out how to fix that yet.

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?!

This shit never happens for me on the PS3 when I had to sit the console on the side in a hurry while SSFIV was running.

Just amazing...

Though unless you live in an earthquake prone territory how often would any one need to lift or even move the console. Would a slight jarring still cause the 360 to chew up discs faster than a cheap old VHS player would to tapes?

[Bahamut]

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?!

This shit never happens for me on the PS3 when I had to sit the console on the side in a hurry while SSFIV was running.

Just amazing...

Though unless you live in an earthquake prone territory how often would any one need to lift or even move the console. Would a slight jarring still cause the 360 to chew up discs faster than a cheap old VHS player would to tapes?

They needed to change the 360 drive into an autoloader drive

[Schwaltzvald]

They needed to change the 360 drive into an autoloader drive

I'd be more sad at how that Alan wake disc was seamlessly reduced to a fancy beer coaster.

[SirChadlyOC]

I guess when you get something for free, there's a reason.

http://www.destructoid.com/e3-10-new-xbox-same-old-disc-destroying-problems-176508.phtml

Oops. Guess they haven't figured out how to fix that yet.

I was ALMOST tempted to upgrade, but there's the deal breaker. P.S. don't place your mini360 vertical. EVER.

Getting Wi-Fi built in is practically a necessity these days, especially when the wifi adapter accessory costs $100.

Having it smaller, quieter, and cooler are all huge improvements.

However, they still didn't talk about moving your hard-drive data from an old 360 to a new one (although the recent USB-stick upgrade should do the trick). And we just won't know if the the controller is ACTUALLY better or if the system failure rate is acceptable until months from now.

Oh, and I fear that my pets will accidentally turn off my 360 with the new "glide touch" controls.

[The Coop]

If Billy Mayes were still around, he could pitch the new 360 as a combination game player/engraver/wood planer.

[Schwaltzvald]

If Billy Mayes were still around, he could pitch the new 360 as a combination game player/engraver/wood planer.

Hi BILLY MAYS HERE WITH THE 360 GAME CONSOLE, PLANER AND ENGRAVER; WITH 250GB OF SPACE FOR YOUR GAMING NEEDS AS WELL AS FOR ALL THOSE MOVIES YOU DOWNLOAD. WHEN YOU'RE NOT GAMING AND NEED TO DO SOME HOUSEWORK THE XBOX 360 SWITCHES TO A WOOD PLANER FOR HOME PROJECTS TOO SMALL FOR POWERFUL TOOLS; EVEN A CHILD CAN ASSIST ON HOUSE PROJECTS. NEXT UP IT CAN SWITCH TO AN ENGRAVER WITH CHILD SAFETY PLASTIQUE PROTECTING THE LITTLE ONE'S HANDS FROM HARM. JUST POP THE ITEM INTO THE TRAY, LIFT IT, DO THE CABBAGE PATCH AND YOU'RE DONE.

WITH THE XBOX 360 YOU GET A GAME CONSOLE, A WOOD PLANER AND FINALLY AN ENGRAVER ALL AT THREE PAYMENTS OF $99.99 CALL NOW!

[DarkeSword]

He clearly tilts the console while the disc is spinning.

Who the hell does that?!

Don't do that!

It's his own damn fault.

[Malaki-LEGEND.sys]

He clearly tilts the console while the disc is spinning.

Who the hell does that?!

Don't do that!

It's his own damn fault.

Are the people at destructoid retarded rhesus monkeys?

[Schwaltzvald]

He clearly tilts the console while the disc is spinning.

Who the hell does that?!

Don't do that!

It's his own damn fault.

However who here who owns a 360 or even a ps2/3 that have had it sit on its side and have accidentally tilt it enough to suddenly have it fall back.

happened to my PS2 once and not a scratch on the disc, still works to this day. Had to move my PS3 a couple of times while a game disc was playing/running; NOTHING HORRIBLE HAPPENED.

Regardless if the owner intentionally or unintentionally move the 360, the end result should not be a $30-$60 disc reduced to a coaster with a fancy label.

[Gollgagh]

Guys pretty much the only way you could "fix" that considering the disc speed is to have the entire disc drive mounted on a freaking gyroscope.

The only other way would be to slow down the disc speed and thus increase loading times.

If you've taken any physics at all you should know that the faster an object is spinning, the harder it resists any change in its rotational direction. If something's spinning 300 times a second, you can bet your face that motherfucker's gonna be hard to turn.

I don't have the drive speeds of each console on hand, but I'm fairly sure that the 360's speed is insane compared to most everything else.

I'm serious, if this was an easy fix, I am 100% certain they would have fixed it by now. Of course I'm totally talking out of my ass since I can't find the specs

[The Damned]

He clearly tilts the console while the disc is spinning.

Who the hell does that?!

Don't do that!

It's his own damn fault.

I think it's more of a "people will now be waving their arms and legs within reach of the 360" sort of thing. Think about it. People can read all those "keep away from the machine when it's running" screens every day they use it, but some of them are going to hit, slap, kick, or fall onto it at some point.

They could have figured out a better way for it to work. that's the issue.

[SirChadlyOC]

Guys pretty much the only way you could "fix" that considering the disc speed is to have the entire disc drive mounted on a freaking gyroscope.

The only other way would be to slow down the disc speed and thus increase loading times.

I'm serious, if this was an easy fix, I am 100% certain they would have fixed it by now. Of course I'm totally talking out of my ass since I can't find the specs

So how come none of my other consoles have this problem? Or my DVD/CD players?

[Gollgagh]

drive speed

if it's as fast as I think it is

[prophetik music]

three reasons, chad.

1. your other stuff doesn't have a single-disc tray that comes out forward. the little metal tabs that cause this issue are in there to prevent the drive from being broken off or leaning down when it's extended.

2. your other stuff doesn't spin a quarter as fast as these drives.

3. your other stuff doesn't use dvd9 discs, which are possibly the most damageable discs known to man.

oh, and schwaltz, take a kitchen knife and scratch it across your blu-ray disc. notice anything? yeah, that doesn't scratch it. blu-ray discs are made out of the hair of superman, and therefore you could have the ps3 loaded with satanic dolls chewing away at the disc while it's running and nothing would happen.

So...why wasn't this what they first released? I figure that, five years on, Microsoft should be doing a bit more than glitch control and touch-up on their system. Like the fan. I mean, seriously - I assure you that Microsoft has heard tons of compliants about that food processor-esque fan in the 360. Why did it need the Jasper update in the first place?

And why aren't hard drives and games backwards compatible? Was it really necessary to bone people like that? I dunno 'bout you folks, but I'm still staying out of this-gen. I mean, honestly: my Atari 2600 is as old as me (25) and it's working just fine. I've replaced one paddle in its entire lifespan, and the paddle breaking was entirely my fault (I dropped it down a flight of stairs). I understand that things need to be tested and all, but I think there's something to the fact that hundreds of thousands of Ataris and SNES and NES and all those other machines are still goin', just fine; whatmore, they had about this long to get finalized, too (the NES was 1985, the SNES 1991 - the last model of NES therefore took about 5-6 years to get finalized. The SNES had 5 years until the N64. The 360 is going on 5 years [2005] and they're still doing major corrections to the device).

Maybe it's because there are more moving parts and sensitive electronics and whatevers, but the point remains: I play hundreds of hours a year on my Super Nintendo, easily. I have a TON of fun with that thing - I don't deny that the 360 contains a library of great games, but if the system's needing this huge an update, what's to say it won't need another one? Will I have to buy another one in 10 years? 7? 5? 3? By contrast, my SNES, which I got for Christmas in 1991, is still doing just fine, almost 20 years later.

Also, I dislike all the doodads attached to both the 360 and the PS3. I don't need to check facebook; I don't need to chat with my buddies; I don't need to hear tweets and play music and playback DVDs. I have a machine for that - it's called a computer. All this stuff does is take up HD space that I want to use to save things, like...you know...games. Give me Xbox Arcade (I love that thing; honestly, it's the most alluring part of the 360 to me), give me my games, and go hum quietly in the corner 'till I shut you off.

that loud fan is from the launch models, in 2005. people need to give it up already, before they start sounding incredibly stupid parroting crap back that they heard before. my ps3 idling (ceche01) is much louder than both of my 360s running at the same time while spinning discs.

did you really just bring up backwards compatibility? again, you don't know what you're talking about. you can play an xbox1 game on the 360, no sweat - you just can't play online anymore, since ms shut down the servers. the games function fine, though. why can't i play ps2 games on the ps3?

your atari 2600 works as well as you do because it used less electricity than a wall clock. an xbox 360 is a cheap computer. it uses about 2000% more electricity. more electricity = more heat. more heat = fires. simple as that. why don't computers last as long as they used to?

it amazes me how much people don't understand about the stuff that they use (or don't use) every day.

[SirChadlyOC]

three reasons, chad.

1. your other stuff doesn't have a single-disc tray that comes out forward. the little metal tabs that cause this issue are in there to prevent the drive from being broken off or leaning down when it's extended.

2. your other stuff doesn't spin a quarter as fast as these drives.

3. your other stuff doesn't use dvd9 discs, which are possibly the most damageable discs known to man.

1. Now that you mention it, the old PS2 Phat that ejected a tray did have a disc-scratching issue as well. It wasn't as bad as the 360's, but it was still pretty bad, though.

2 & 3. Oh, OK.

This does make me wonder if they considered a different type of disc tray, such as the Wii's or the PS3 Slim's. Maybe even sitting on a post like the GameCube would help hold the discs in place.

You obviously can't slow down the spinning (in fact, they increased it) and you can't change the form of media. I'm just surprised they didn't do more to address the 2nd biggest problem of the XBOX 360.

And I'm still not convinced the mini model will have no overheating issues until the sample size is increased by millions. Changing the power supply and amount while changing the fan means a lot of different variables, and I hope they end up being overall improvements. Hopefully, there won't be any problems, but I think it's fair to remain skeptical of Microsoft's failure rate based on their history.

[Sir_Snooze]

that loud fan is from the launch models, in 2005. people need to give it up already, before they start sounding incredibly stupid parroting crap back that they heard before. my ps3 idling (ceche01) is much louder than both of my 360s running at the same time while spinning discs.

Maybe my friend's is an anomaly, but that thing is LOUD. And it's not young. The PS3 is also loud as crap. However, since I have heard exactly 3 360s run ever (2 of which are loud; one is an original, the aforementioned one, and a brand new one that's a bit quieter), I'll accept what you say with a shrug. Do be careful with the moniker 'parroting', though - I simply went by my sample, 66% of which are noisy.

did you really just bring up backwards compatibility? again, you don't know what you're talking about. you can play an xbox1 game on the 360, no sweat - you just can't play online anymore, since ms shut down the servers. the games function fine, though. why can't i play ps2 games on the ps3?

Somewhere around here it says that old hard drives won't work on new console. Nor will the save carts. Ergo, my Tales of Vesperia data doesn't work on new 360. I have to start over. I don't want to start over. I suppose I should have specified that that point is a major stick in my side. And yeah - backwards compatibility is a must. The PS3 not taking PS2 is retarded.

your atari 2600 works as well as you do because it used less electricity than a wall clock. an xbox 360 is a cheap computer. it uses about 2000% more electricity. more electricity = more heat. more heat = fires. simple as that. why don't computers last as long as they used to?

But both are fun. I don't need an electricity hog; if making something less powerful makes it last longer, as you're insinuating, that's perfectly fine by me.

[Brandon Strader]

I was going to get a PS3 with my upcoming music job money, but that was before I knew there was a redesigned 360. I'm totally getting this now instead, as it's the best gaming deal evar. Gotta get me some Kinect and Kinectimals too. <3

I don't flip my Xbox back and forth on a whim. It's literally been laying on its side for months. My stupid brother-in-law who came over to visit flipped his back and forth while playing rented Arkham Asylum and scratched it up. It still worked though.

(he moved the xbox between rooms and flipped it horizontal and vertical for no reason, swapped out the hard drives all the time which I really didn't like him touching my hard drive... unsurprisingly his xbox bricked a couple months later)

If you want to hear a REAL horror story, I could tell you about the time I bought a PS2 and a month later, the laser went out. And the PS2 warranty was exactly one month, which I was past by about 2 days. Laser went out in 2 ps2s. But I didn't make a SONY thread so we could talk about how crappy the hardware is. I made a E3 Microsoft thread so we could talk about new games and hardware for Xbox. I didn't make this thread for people to come in and troll, and talk about how dumb it is and describe the length of their sony / nintendo fanboyism. Just take it to a new thread if that's what you're up to, because you've got plenty to talk about with their conferences on today.

[SirChadlyOC]

Somewhere around here it says that old hard drives won't work on new console. Nor will the save carts. Ergo, my Tales of Vesperia data doesn't work on new 360. I have to start over. I don't want to start over. I suppose I should have specified that that point is a major stick in my side.

Well, the memory units and hard drives won't work anymore, but the data still will. All you need is a USB drive (1-16gb) to transfer your data from your old box to your new one. If you have a large hard drive, it could take quite a few transfers, but it's doable.