percussion

[mickomoo]

I'm kinda embarrassed asking this, but I'm not really good at understanding how building a drum/percussion line in a song works. Like what determines the order you hear certain drum parts, is the timing while the bass is playing or after the bass plays a note? I'm really having trouble understanding. What I do know is that the bass and percussion compliment each other, but that's it... are there any books or resources that could point me in a direction?

Also while on the topic, are there any good drum vsts? I'm currently using Native Instrument's free kore player presets, but are their better ones for a decent price?

[Moseph]

If you're doing rock 'n roll style drums, you usually have some variation on this pattern (other genres use their own conventions):

Kick on beats 1 and 3

Snare on beats 2 and 4

Possibly ride cymbal/hi-hat playing eighth- or sixteenth-notes throughout

Fills at the ends of phrases (e.g. a roll on the toms, a crash cymbal)

Listen to some rock with this in mind and pay attention to how the drummer embellishes the basic formula.

The drum and bass lines don't necessarily have to have any particular relation to each other, but keep in mind that the kick drum compliments the bass's attack very well, so if you find that your bass line isn't coming through very well, you might rework the kick pattern to emphasize the rhythms the bass is playing or something like that.

[Chernabogue]

The best thing to do is to listen carefully to some some songs that use drums. You can also try FL Studio's FCP to learn some drum patterns in different genres.

[Yoozer]

Also while on the topic, are there any good drum vsts?

Yes. NI Battery, FXPansion Guru - but what are you looking for? Acoustic or electric, pre-loaded or for your own samples?

[Moseph]

Also, if you haven't done so already, learn to differentiate the different parts of a drum kit. Learn the difference in sound between a ride cymbal and a crash cymbal, etc. If you're going to listen to existing music to find things to imitate (and you should), knowing what type of percussion hits you're hearing is important, because it will make reproducing the sound on your own much easier, and you'll have labels to put on the sounds you remember (e.g "open hi-hat off the beat" instead of "some kind of cymbal off the beat").

[Josh Whelchel]

And then, remember you can layer drumkits! Two kicks is (sometimes) better than one!

[Rozovian]

Aside from what's already suggested, I think you should try drumming on your desk or lap or wherever to get a feel for the rhythm. Won't help you with what parts go where but it should get you started on rhythms. If you can, use your foot too. This is easier if you've sat at a real drumset once or twice.

And try it with a lot of different songs, different styles and genres, different tempos.

Almost-crappy samples can sound ok if written and mixed right, so getting a good drum plugin is secondary to learning to write drums that has groove even with a gm sound.

[mickomoo]

I've written the percussion for my first song, I kinda got some sort of idea of how to work it. Kick or thud on 1 or the down beat and snares on 2, then a cymbal clash to replace the thud when the melody goes up an octave...

the most current draft of the song is in my topic on the originals boards. I mixed the percussion down because I'm really not liking it, and I didn't want it to over power the song. But, if you do listen to it, any feedback would be great!

[mickomoo]

Yes. NI Battery, FXPansion Guru - but what are you looking for? Acoustic or electric, pre-loaded or for your own samples?

oh, Acoustic and pre-loaded, mostly

[Cerrax]

And then, remember you can layer drumkits! Two kicks is (sometimes) better than one!

QFT. I think a lot of people forget this one. Even live drums are sometimes mixed with samples and/or multiple live drums to get a full, rich sound.

[82ndave]

If you are programming drums I would recommend using a midi pad controller to capture your performance. The Akai Mpd and Korg PadKontrol are both good units.

I would start by forming a basic kit using samples or drum machine sounds. Keep it simple, just Kick, Hihat and snare to begin with. Then start to build the beat. Play a hihat pattern to set the pace, then start it looping. Once you have got that rolling play a kick on the first beat of each bar, then just fill in the gaps with whatever sounds right to you.

If you are struggling to get some inspiration then you could use an existing percussion loop in another channel to jam over.

After you have got a basic beat, add more sounds and maybe some fills at the end of every four bars or so to keep it interesting.

[mickomoo]

for now this is my only attempt at drumming, I think it's decent

[Calum]

then a cymbal clash to replace the thud when the melody goes up an octave...

One tip I would say is whenever you have a cymbal clash put a "thud" with it, it just gives it more power and definition. I play drums and I wouldn't dream of just hitting a cymbal without backing it up with a kick drum, unless it was in a quiet section and I was playing the bells of the cymbal or if it's in an orchestral setting (which it is here) it is usually fine to play clash cymbals on their own but for more impact add a bass drum with it. The bit you mentioned though, where the melody goes up - there is a lack of low end in the mix so i think it'd be good to have your kick drum there as well and maybe another low end instrument as well!

This attempt seems pretty good, but the sounds sound quite "rock kit" instead of orchestra percussion. It's mostly the open hi-hats that give it away. Unless you did want a rock kit. In which case you should have more of a beat, i.e Bass drum on 1, snare on 3, hi-hats on 1 2 3 4 etc.

The splash cymbal also didn't seem appropriate to me in this. Although I guess this is kind of semi-metal/orchestral.

Basically it seems like you're playing mostly drum kit (which the exception of the timps & bells) sounds but to orchestral notation! That's all I would pick up on.

The snare was a little out of time at times, so I would try to fix that up, but it wasn't that bad!

About timps, if you want to be really picky then you should really restrict them to about 4 notes per section as they can retune but 4 timps is the most you're really going to have at a time. I would use them mostly for effect & crescendo's & accents etc. although they certainly can play riffs/ostinatos which does seem suitable in this piece.

Hope this helps!

[LuIzA]

like Moseph said.

if you've never done it before, try sitting on a drumset at your local music store and learn how each sounds. then watch how drummers play, be it live or by video (I recommend live, if you can). then just listen to your favorite songs and play close attention to the drums... try first reproducing the same pattern in a song on your sequencer..

that's how I learned.