Yume Nikki (Dream Diary)

[StandingInMotion]

Hey! I was just wondering if anyone has heard of Yume Nikki? It's a game for PC developed using RPGMaker 2003... It's fairly short, but pretty neat and entertaining... if you're into surreal, dark, and disturbing games...

From what I understand, it's not incredibly popular, so I'm just wondering if anyone else has heard of it, and what your thoughts on it are...

[Schwaltzvald]

[Avatar of Justice]

My roomie played it last year. I imagine people around here would love it, as it reminded me of the creepier parts of Earthbound for the most part.

[StandingInMotion]

I think it does an excellent job with atmosphere... I've not played many RM2k3 games, but... even though most of the music is just 4 second loops, the scenery and just overall thrill of what the game is about was enough to keep me interested. The music is still even pretty memorable.

[Schwaltzvald]

It's an experience that I enjoy due to the surreality as well as the theories that bounce around about the game.

[EC2151]

It is by far one of the most god-awful, piece of shit, pretentiously bad games I've played in my life, by FAR.

I could have made a better game in RPGMaker in less time.

I will concede that some of the sprites are neat to look at.

However, nothing becomes more frustrating than wandering around huge endless-scrolling parallax backgrounds with nearly NO landmarks, trying to find item X that MAY trigger event Y. Seriously, what the hell is with all these "1/64 chance of event Y happening" and "1/52 chance of event Z happening" bullshit that plagues the game?

What about the Red Maze, which YOU HAVE TO GO INTO TWICE? A giant fucking labyrinth with no landmarks that you NEED to go into to get two effects? AND it also endlessly scrolls, making it virtually impossible to know where you're going?

So you wander around big swaths of nothing hoping that something happens sometimes, but usually it's nothing.

All of this is NOT GOOD GAME DESIGN. It's terribly designed!

I don't mind when you try to make a serious game; I don't mind when you try to have this surreal non-story as the big hook (though I think THAT'S a little artsy-fartsy pretentious in this case).

But when you make your game so damned tedious to play, either through lack of game design knowledge, or sheer malice, or the most likely, trying to be DEEEEP, that's when I hang up my hat and call "bullshit." And then there are all of these fan-theories, fan-music-remixes, and fan art of the game, while genuinely unique (and thought-provoking) games like Contact DS and Little King's Story get nada.

Sorry for attacking something you dudes like, but I can't STAND this game.

[StandingInMotion]

It is by far one of the most god-awful, piece of shit, pretentiously bad games I've played in my life, by FAR.

I could have made a better game in RPGMaker in less time.

I will concede that some of the sprites are neat to look at.

However, nothing becomes more frustrating than wandering around huge endless-scrolling parallax backgrounds with nearly NO landmarks, trying to find item X that MAY trigger event Y. Seriously, what the hell is with all these "1/64 chance of event Y happening" and "1/52 chance of event Z happening" bullshit that plagues the game?

What about the Red Maze, which YOU HAVE TO GO INTO TWICE? A giant fucking labyrinth with no landmarks that you NEED to go into to get two effects? AND it also endlessly scrolls, making it virtually impossible to know where you're going?

So you wander around big swaths of nothing hoping that something happens sometimes, but usually it's nothing.

All of this is NOT GOOD GAME DESIGN. It's terribly designed!

I don't mind when you try to make a serious game; I don't mind when you try to have this surreal non-story as the big hook (though I think THAT'S a little artsy-fartsy pretentious in this case).

But when you make your game so damned tedious to play, either through lack of game design knowledge, or sheer malice, or the most likely, trying to be DEEEEP, that's when I hang up my hat and call "bullshit." And then there are all of these fan-theories, fan-music-remixes, and fan art of the game, while genuinely unique (and thought-provoking) games like Contact DS and Little King's Story get nada.

Sorry for attacking something you dudes like, but I can't STAND this game.

Your opinion is as valid as anyone else's, so I respect it

I will say, however, that I don't think the game is there... really... to be played... It's more a work of art to be looked at and heard than anything else. I suppose calling it a "Game" is being too liberal with the term... It's more just interactive art, in my opinion.

And as such, with art, you get those who enjoy it, and those who despise it... but in the end, it's all subjective... so no one's view is more applicable than anyone else's.

It's an experience that I enjoy due to the surreality as well as the theories that bounce around about the game.

The theories, I think, are the more interesting parts of the game... due to the nature of the game and the fact that no one has been able to contact the author, the entire surreality of it is left up to ridiculous fan-interpretations...

It's almost like reading conspiracy theories because they're just fun to think about.

[Schwaltzvald]

The theories, I think, are the more interesting parts of the game... due to the nature of the game and the fact that no one has been able to contact the author, the entire surreality of it is left up to ridiculous fan-interpretations...

It's almost like reading conspiracy theories because they're just fun to think about.

[Bleck]

Your opinion is as valid as anyone else's

no it isn't

[StandingInMotion]

no it isn't

Assuming he's played it and given it a chance, his criticism is alright. He tried to play it, but didn't like it... I fail to see why his opinion doesn't matter.

[Schwaltzvald]

I would say it'd have to do with the word choice. To say "his opinion is valid" would mean that his "opinions" are accurate rather than just... opinions regardless if he actually played the game or not.

Essentially his "opinion" would be so constructed that what he said cannot be denied without contradiction. Which is not the case here.

It'd be better to say, "I can respect your opinion despite me disagreeing with it" as it acknowledges Charles' statement as such, an opinion rather than fact.

Or just talking out of my ass this time.

[Bleck]

because saying that a game like little king's story is thought-provoking and this one isn't, also dismissing an open-world game as 'bad game design' because it lacks an objective shows that he does not understand the concept of surreal or the idea of 'thought-provoking', or of video game design in general

everyone is entitled to their own opinion but the way the world actually works is that not many of them are actually valid

basically implying that a game meant to be dream-like is bad because it is objectiveless, surreal and vague

or rather

implying that a game meant to be dream-like is bad because it is dream-like

is really dumb and kind of a huge stain on a thread where people who clearly liked the game wish to discuss it

[StandingInMotion]

That would be my mistake, then... I misused the word "valid," and for that, I am sorry. I totally agree, Bleck, that it's silly for someone to complain about a dream-like game being dream-like.

However, he isn't looking at it from that point of view, which is why I was trying to see things from his angle... and yeah, from a totally "gaming" point of view, it's tedious, obnoxious, and the objective is annoying. I guess I was just trying to say that that wasn't the point of the game in the first place, but if that's all he got out of it, then whatever... bummer for him.

Anyway, back on topic. Bleck, I take it you've played the game... what were your thoughts on it?

[Bleck]

When I first played it, I couldn't find any of the exits to the extended worlds. But then I gave it another try a few days later, and bam - spent the next bunch of hours exploring. It's haunting, unsettling, and sometimes downright creepy - I think it's worth playing through it to completion.

[EC2151]

I'm not saying the game is bad because it's dreamlike.

I'm saying my philosophy of what a game should be is in direct contradiction with what Yume Nikki is, and I judge it according bad to that philosophy. Yes, it IS a totally "gaming" point of view, but that's the FIRST point of view I have when I play a game.

Or at the very least I didn't really like anything this game had to offer me.

As StandingInMotion said earlier, if you look at this as I do, as a game, then this is a bad game.

The people who like this tend to look at this more like an 'experience' or 'interactive art' or something, and say it's good then. That may be, but I personally didn't like it neither as an experience or as art (or more accurately, I tried really hard to like it as I played but I got more and more frustrated with it as time went on to the point of loathing it); however, I can see why some people would enjoy Yume Nikki. As I said in my first post, I liked the sprites, and to that I'll add that SOME of the designs and SOME of the concepts were good (like the number of secrets each world held), atmospheric and all that. I just wish that these decent elements weren't surrounded by things like "the Red Maze" and "Lightpost Land." Things that MAY be surreal, and that MAY be the point of all of it, but they sure as hell aren't enjoyable. These elements lead me to the conclusions I stated in my first post. Notice in my first sentence of my first post which word I bolded.

Of course, Bleck is right in saying that perhaps it was foolish of me to speak so disparagingly of a game in a thread clearly meant for people who liked the game (this isn't the first time I've argued about this game on the intrawebz with people who liked it).

[Bleck]

As StandingInMotion said earlier, if you look at this as I do, as a game, then this is a bad game.

The people who like this tend to look at this more like an 'experience' or 'interactive art' or something, and say it's good then.

guys Thriller is a bad book

Macbeth is a bad album

Ocarina of Time is a terrible movie

[EC2151]

guys Thriller is a bad book

Macbeth is a bad album

Ocarina of Time is a terrible movie

[BlackPanther]

So where can I download this game? I want to try it out on one of my bored days...

[EC2151]

The first page of a google search yields incredible results

[BlackPanther]

I was attempting to go the lazy route and hame someone link it for me but fair enough lol.

[Schwaltzvald]

I'm not saying the game is bad because it's dreamlike.

I'm saying my philosophy of what a game should be is in direct contradiction with what Yume Nikki is, and I judge it according bad to that philosophy.

I'm not saying the game is bad because it's dreamlike. I'm saying my philosophy of what a game should be

I'm saying my philosophy of what a game should be

[EC2151]

You have mastered the quote function, grasshopper.

That is but the first step in a long journey!

[Schwaltzvald]

You have mastered the quote function, grasshopper.

That is but the first step in a long journey!

Just saying if that ain't a red flag on you I don't know what would be.

[ella guro]

Wow, I didn't expect someone to make a post about this.

I'm a bit obsessed with this game. I played it a lot during my exams a year ago (though never got around to finishing it) and it put me into kind of a dazed trance. It's so unsettling and upsetting, in a way that even a game like Silent Hill 2 isn't. Also I like how the worlds you go to get more and more detailed, the further you get into them. Like her thoughts starts out very scattered and abstract, and gradually forms more complete worlds. A really brilliant game, at least in terms of concept/presentation. Obviously it's not a super enjoyable gameplay experience, but I don't really think it needs to be.

[Schwaltzvald]

One in particularly major point is the theme of "frustration" not just in playing the game but what you see what Madotsuki experiences.

Like that Toriningen party you see but can't interact with.