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The Extra Credits thread!! EC is amazing!

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By big giant circles,
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JCvgluvr Newbie

JCvgluvr

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Sephire and team, I want thank you for your entry this week. Not only did you make a convincing argument for the protection of video games under free speech, but you accomplished something else: You inspired me, and the passion that I have for video games. If anyone can show us the difference between games being toys for kids, and games being evolved, completely professional entertainment mediums, you certainly can. Thank you for emphasizing the legitimacy of video games. You're contributing a great deal for gamers everywhere; I hope you understand this. Fantastic job, keep going!

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Less Ashamed Of Self Newbie

Less Ashamed Of Self

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JCvgluvr just said it very well.

I'd follow you into war Seph, that quote at the end was incredible. One of your best vids yet period. This series is becoming very very impressive. In a way I kind of hope, by some great unlikely strides, that law does pass JUST so the backlash of protests from proud gamers could be felt.

Gamers lining up around the block to step up and testify to gaming's artistic merit? Banned games that in turn get released underground as a political statement and pick up speed and popularity? It would really be such a dumb move, they'd be shooting themselves in the foot if they pass this. It'd be like the premise of Equilibrium come to life.

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Souliarc Newbie

Souliarc

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I think this series alone may have defined my career path through college. While I may not have my (and many others) coveted golden job of composing music for video games, I believe I at least want to be involved in them.

Thank you, team "Extra Credits", for reviving my pride for something I have cherished for so long. It's so hard to keep a steady foot in the fight for video game arts when so many around me (where I live at least) see it as a child's toy. It's comradery like this that keeps me going.

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The Damned Enthusiast

The Damned

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If the US did declare games as not protected by their Constitution, then I suspect we will see a big drop in US-based companies, with a large increase in Japanese and European developers.

I wonder what this would mean for Microsoft, as they are the only non-Japanese console developer. Most of their games are made by US developers, and if they pack it up or move out of town, they could see a big drop in software sales. Sony and Nintendo would still have all their Japanese companies (and Nintendo's own in-house people) to fall back on, but in the North American market, even they would suffer losses.

You know what? I think it's time for MS to start throwing some cash and weight around like the old days. They have the economic, social and political clout to fuck over the entire "games aren't protected" bullshit. Come on, Microsoft, show us the old, evil bastard MS we used to know and love to hate.

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Sengin Apprentice

Sengin

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Whoa whoa whoa...you mean Sephire's vids, which I usually had to wait months for, I now have to wait only a week? Awesome. Are there any plans to upload your previous vids on there now (Uncanny Valley, etc...) so others who haven't seen them before will know they exist (maybe save until you go on vacation/holiday/etc..)?

Also, I gotta say, it really does seem that you guys think of everything. Amazing work. I am seriously hoping some companies (or their employees) start watching these. Great ideas.

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Less Ashamed Of Self Newbie

Less Ashamed Of Self

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Whoa whoa whoa...you mean Sephire's vids, which I usually had to wait months for, I now have to wait only a week? Awesome. Are there any plans to upload your previous vids on there now (Uncanny Valley, etc...) so others who haven't seen them before will know they exist (maybe save until you go on vacation/holiday/etc..)?

Also, I gotta say, it really does seem that you guys think of everything. Amazing work. I am seriously hoping some companies (or their employees) start watching these. Great ideas.

sephire, I would recommend re-doing them. Sure it would be a lot of annoying work considering you already did it once but here are some things to consider:

1-the research was already done and you have a lecture model to follow

2-you could improve on any old/rough/rusty things you didn't like and improve upon them in the updated version.

3-you wouldn't have to break the canon of your new series; one wouldn't need to go back and watch your 'talking about these' material to see all of your material, they could get all of the finished rants in one place.

and 4-it's a gimme; because I'm sure you'll run out of stuff to talk about at SOME point.

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zircon Newbie

zircon

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Huh... I love EC but this latest video I'm not 100% in agreement with. What is wrong with laws saying kids can't buy M-rated games? How is this any different than kids not being able to watch R-rated movies? Nobody would debate that film ISN'T art, yet virtually everyone accepts that it's OK for films to have ratings, and for children below a minimum age to not view films with certain ratings UNLESS an adult comes with them. What exactly is the problem with this?

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Abadoss Rookie

Abadoss

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Huh... I love EC but this latest video I'm not 100% in agreement with. What is wrong with laws saying kids can't buy M-rated games? How is this any different than kids not being able to watch R-rated movies? Nobody would debate that film ISN'T art, yet virtually everyone accepts that it's OK for films to have ratings, and for children below a minimum age to not view films with certain ratings UNLESS an adult comes with them. What exactly is the problem with this?

I'm not entirely sure that was his stance on it. I personally lean more to the side of limiting more mature content from kids (I still can't believe there are seven-year-old kids playing TF2). However, I think he's saying that the limitations placed on games shouldn't be based on the presupposition that video games are toys and therefore for children only and therefore must not contain any mature content. Any limitations on mature content in video games should be treated the same way as it is in any other ART mediums, like film.

Maybe I've got it wrong and that's not what he said. I suppose I'll let him answer for himself, but that's what I understood his position to be.

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HalcyonSpirit Newbie

HalcyonSpirit

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Huh... I love EC but this latest video I'm not 100% in agreement with. What is wrong with laws saying kids can't buy M-rated games? How is this any different than kids not being able to watch R-rated movies? Nobody would debate that film ISN'T art, yet virtually everyone accepts that it's OK for films to have ratings, and for children below a minimum age to not view films with certain ratings UNLESS an adult comes with them. What exactly is the problem with this?

The problem is that there is no law stating that kids can't go watch R-rated movies. It's a self-imposed regulation in theaters and stores selling the movies. Same goes for music, if I recall correctly. They do it so as to not have any controversy or anything of that nature that would result in a loss of sales. The ratings are fine, there's no issue with giving movies or games ratings. However, requiring BY LAW that they cannot sell M-rated games to minors is, as far as I know, an unprecedented move on any form of art.

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zircon Newbie

zircon

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True, there is no law saying minors can't see an R-rated movie without a parent. But the effect is the same. The entire industry adheres to the MPAA rating system and all movie theaters enforce ratings. To me, the video seemed to be saying (in part) that we shouldn't have ANY restriction on mature content for minors, because minors deserve to be able to decide for themselves. I don't believe that is right - I think the argument should have stayed focused on the legal aspect of things, not a child's right to free speech via buying things.

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sephfire Newbie

sephfire

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sephire, I would recommend re-doing them. Sure it would be a lot of annoying work considering you already did it once but here are some things to consider:

1-the research was already done and you have a lecture model to follow

2-you could improve on any old/rough/rusty things you didn't like and improve upon them in the updated version.

3-you wouldn't have to break the canon of your new series; one wouldn't need to go back and watch your 'talking about these' material to see all of your material, they could get all of the finished rants in one place.

and 4-it's a gimme; because I'm sure you'll run out of stuff to talk about at SOME point.

Yeah, that's sort of what we're thinking. We've got a lot of stuff we want to cover soon, but that's the "sort of rerun, but not really" plan I had in mind.

True, there is no law saying minors can't see an R-rated movie without a parent. But the effect is the same. The entire industry adheres to the MPAA rating system and all movie theaters enforce ratings. To me, the video seemed to be saying (in part) that we shouldn't have ANY restriction on mature content for minors, because minors deserve to be able to decide for themselves. I don't believe that is right - I think the argument should have stayed focused on the legal aspect of things, not a child's right to free speech via buying things.

The fact that minors might not be able to buy M rated games isn't an issue. I don't think it's the federal government's place to enforce it, but I'm totally fine with kids not buying GTA.

The real issue is that, to pass a law restricting it, they have to convince the Supreme Court that games are like a controlled substance and aren't covered by the first amendment's free speech protection from federal regulation. If the Supreme Court passes this and sets the precedent that games aren't protected, that could be disastrous for this medium.

P.S. Had fun seeing some of you guys at PAX!

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zircon Newbie

zircon

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The fact that minors might not be able to buy M rated games isn't an issue. I don't think it's the federal government's place to enforce it, but I'm totally fine with kids not buying GTA.

The real issue is that, to pass a law restricting it, they have to convince the Supreme Court that games are like a controlled substance and aren't covered by the first amendment's free speech protection from federal regulation. If the Supreme Court passes this and sets the precedent that games aren't protected, that could be disastrous for this medium.

Hmm, I see the distinction - I suppose the ideal solution would just be the continued partnering of the ESRB with game retailers, much like the MPAA and theaters.

Anyway, keep up the great work!

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