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Malheureusement

wip OoT Remix - Bolero of Fire/Serenade of Water

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I'm titling this: Polar Opposites.

I thought I'd slow it down a bit after all my hardcore techno/trance. A nice slow, calming, relaxing House beat that could really take you to some fond memories. This one was engineered to send you off into the memory bank and relax you to your soul. When I listen to it, it sends me floating down the musical highway. I love how it's coming along. What do you think?

http://tindeck.com/listen/nfnn

EDIT: Sources!

Bolero of Fire:

Serenade of Water:

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Big problem with the levels. The bass drum gets softer when the bass and lows-heavy rhythm synth comes in. When the filter opens on the rhythm synth you've got a clear levels conflict where the bass drum is pushed down.

Bolero of Fire is there, but it's basically a verbatim quote that's repeated in separate bits. It gets a little more interesting when it starts to modulate more, but it's still on the conservative side. Basically, original track+source quote. The Serenade of Water bits that come in seem like they're in the wrong mode, you can try transposing them 5 or 7 seminotes down, see if it fits better. Or you could alter the writing of the other tracks to fit that mode. if that's what it is., can't say for sure, but that's what it sounds like to me.

Too liberal, with too conservative quotes. Gets better towards the end where it blends into the progression, but you need more source and it should be less verbatim. imho. Source could be built into the groove more.

The track overall is nice and groovy. The source parts' instruments are a bit thin compared to the heavier backing ones (a disparity you need to fix), but the groove works and the sound is cool. I think it's got potential for ocr. Nice work. :D

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Ok Roz, help me out here.

You're saying that there should be more source? I used absolutely every note in those two songs! lol I'm at a loss with what to do with that.

The levels problems are an easy fix. That one's no problem.

So you want me to have more source, but that source needs to be interpreted differently? I don't see how it would still be source if I changed the melody--I usually just change the chords and sometimes rhythm of the source melodies, but is that a bad thing? (i.e. bLiNd's "Aquatic Ambiance" remix) I understand it's verbatim in some parts, but is it in all parts if in some? (If that makes any sense at all lol)

And as for the water and fire melodies' instruments--you really think they don't fit? That they're too thin? I'm just trying to understand your point of view (and essentially the judges' for that matter seeing all the mixes you've done that are posted). I'm really not trying to be skeptical or prideful about your opinions and advice, because I truly do value them.

I know the serenade's notes aren't fitting properly, because the song itself has a very unique (and odd) chord progression, and I need to change that when they first come in. I think they fit nicely later on, however. I thought that because the two were in the same key and ended the same they'd fit together. Apparently not.

Oh, and I might've already said this in a way, but is an original track+source quote necessarily a bad thing?

Sorry for badgering, I just wanna LEARN! lol. I appreciate your dissection and careful consideration.

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SoW is in Dorian mode (ie, minor with its 6th note a seminote higher - or white keys starting from D), so it has a different feel than your regular minor or major scale (aka Ionian/Aeolian mode) track. If using it together with something in minor in the same key, you have clashes on the sixth note because their sixth notes aren't the same. Moving it up or down 5 or 7 seminotes might solve this. What makes it more annoying is that the original likes to end with its 3rd note raised a seminote (making it mixolydian mode... modes are fun, aren't they?).

Aquatic Ambience is old, the standards back then weren't as developed as they are today. The panel is more strict about source usage now, so you need to compare to more recent tracks. It's possible to do highly conservative tracks, and highly liberal, and to do stuff that's both too conservative and too liberal at the same time. Using verbatim parts isn't the problem, the problem is that they're floating atop the track.

You need to build the source into the tracks, not just put it on top of them. In my OoT mix, I've got two simultaneous melodies playing that three-note thing - one starts before the beat, one starts on the beat. Otherwise it's a bit like your track, an original groove with some source stuff on top. Big difference is that mine makes use of the source in the backing tracks, you'll even hear the red brinstar-borrowed thing referencing the OoT source. I'm not suggesting you do something as messy as EotS, but you should integrate the source into the rest of the track, make it part of a bassline, part of the comping synth melody, part of a high-range ostinato, something. My FF4 mix takes a four-note pattern from source and turns it into a three-note pattern (and later quotes it verbatim sandwiched between the 3-note pattern and the lead melody from source). Lots of remixers scramble the source into difficult-to-hear little pieces, but it adds to the track being more tied to source. I got some further comments about my tracks and how I made them in this thread, fourth post. Original track+source is bad. Original track based on some source element+source is much better.

Thin isn't necessarily about whether they fit or not, it's just an attribute of a sound. Other qualities like warm, lo-fi, hard, dry... they're all just describing the sound in different ways. In this case, you've got sounds that aren't strong enough to keep the source dominant when you have a much phatter comping synth that doesn't play source (as far as I could tell anyway). When it comes to crafting sounds/piecing sounds together, it's usually easiest to start with the central element - the lead. Anyway, if you'd phatten those sounds they should work better. A combination of delay/reverb, overdrive, and eq should help. trimming down the lows of the comping synth should also help. :P

Örgh, too much text, too late at night. I hope this all makes sense and answers your questions. If not, ask again. I don't mind explaining my feedback, especially when you've got such a healthy attitude to it (i wanna understaaaand), but I'm finding 5 am to be a little late to detail my critique. :D

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Roz, you're a genius. Thanks for all that feedback, I really need it.

Yeah, like the two days we went over modes in music theory class I didn't really pay attention. lol. I get the general idea you're trying to tell me though. Here, I know these "seminotes" as half-steps, or tones. I've never heard that term before. I just know that there's 12 tones, and 12 half-steps makes an octave. It sounds like you have a deep music theory background, however. ;)

I'm going to try to put the melody in the backing. The chords give me lots of room to manipulate, and I think I can shift them to play the source motif. Changing the SoW is going to be the hardest part I think. To pHaTtEn up the leads I think I'll just add some bulkier instruments that match the plucked groove's. I'm also going to put in another background instrument that is going to play both sources at...say...twice or three times as slow. I've also come up with a way to make the sources fit into the groove. All thanks to you. :D

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Well firstly I like the concept of the remix, and the title fits it well.

Production-wise I don't have any problems with this. I think all the sounds are blending together quite nicely. Your seem to be making progress since your previous remixes in that respect.

Unfortunately, the thing holding this back is the arrangement. Your approach to the arrangement sounds like an original repeated 4 bar chord progression, with verbatim source interspersed throughout. I would make use of some of the other features present in the sources. Such as the call and response or 6/8 timing in BoF. Or the descending arpeggios in SoW.

This has some really good potential, but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't pass as ocr material at this stage.

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Glad it makes sense/helps. Also, much of my music theory education. ;)

Also, be sure to not crowd any frequency range with those additions. When you have a lead suffering from mud/crowdedness, use a spectrum analyzer to see where on the spectrum it sits, and eq that part down on other tracks that might get in the way. Also, most strong-sounding instruments need bass, but they usually require less than you think. Again, a spectrum analyzer should tell you how loud an instrument's lows are. most of the time, you can cut 5-10dB from that.

Just repeating that your comping synth had too much bass. :P

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Mm, very chilled mix here, and I'm going to play it safe and agree with everything Rozovian and sbeast said about it! I don't know anything about musical mode (although I did read the wikipedia page and sort of get it), but that note from the Serenade of Water does sound off.

Unfortunately, the thing holding this back is the arrangement. Your approach to the arrangement sounds like an original repeated 4 bar chord progression, with verbatim source interspersed throughout. I would make use of some of the other features present in the sources. Such as the call and response or 6/8 timing in BoF. Or the descending arpeggios in SoW.

Expanding on this, it'd be nice to have a breakdown section where the beat disappears right after you've played the main serenade/bolero, and you have the "resolving" part of the song (e.g. from 0:17

in this) arranged to fit as a nice rest on our musical journey, before continuing on, with maybe some extra spring in our step (and by that I mean extra variations in the beat you have going on, maybe some hats/percussion, maybe some background arpeggios).

Nice Zelda tunes anyway, you gonna continue with the Zelda theme?

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@DarkSim,

I'm currently working on a Zelda remixed album for all my friends right now. I've got the whole thing kinda planned out with 12 tracks. I've already done five, and I have a few more. I post the ones I don't know where to go with on OCR to get some feedback. Others I just know are solid, and they probably won't be posted in the WiP. But yeah, love Zelda tunes SO much. They've gotta be my favorites right next to FFVII soundtrack. I'm thinking of doing some Banjo Kazooie simply because there is a huge lack of it on this site. No good!

Thank you for your feedback, I love hearing the thoughts on this piece. A second version is on its way in the near future. :D

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