LuIzA Posted August 25, 2010 Share Posted August 25, 2010 ok so, I'm upgrading my setup, I currently have an M-audio Fast Track Ultra interface that I'm extremely sick of, no MIDI controller and my DAW is Sonar 8 Producer. I'm thinking of buying either the Mackie Onyx Blackjack or the M-audio Fast Track Pro interface and the m-audio Axiom 61 Pro or not . first off, has anyone here used or have any of these? I'd like to hear of your experiences. both interfaces are pretty much on the strictly necessary side, and that`s what I`m going for, especially for portability. outside of other pro's and con's, main difference between these interfaces to me is the presence or lack there of of MIDI I/O. I'm planning on using the MIDI keyboard to also control my DAW, but they both have USB, so the question is: do I really need the MIDI I/O?? and finally, I'm fairly new to this MIDI keyboard business, and there are a number of features the Axiom Pro has (Hypercontrol, Trutouch, etc) the regular Axiom does not. the question: are they worth the extra bucks? thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moseph Posted August 25, 2010 Share Posted August 25, 2010 No, you won't need MIDI I/O if your keyboard is USB. Don't know if it's an issue for you or not, but having MIDI ports gives you a little more flexibility with older keyboards. I started out with a (lousy) 49-key USB keyboard (more on that below), but my family had an older (slightly better) 76-key keyboard without USB that no one was using, so I eventually took that for myself as well. Since my interface has MIDI ports, I'm able to use the 76-key in addition to the USB one, or I can hook up my non-USB digital piano if I feel like recording with that. My interface, if you're interested, is an EMU 0404 USB, which is the same price as the Mackie you're looking at but also has MIDI, SPDIF, and an 1/8" speaker out (in addition to the normal headphone and 1/4" outs). I have heard that Mackie's preamps are really good for the price, though. One other thing to think about is whether the interface is powered by USB or AC adaptor. It looks like the Onyx is USB powered and the Fast Track can be USB or AC adapter powered. I don't have direct experience with the difference, but I recall reading that USB power is generally less stable than adapter power which can potentially be detrimental to the sound of what you're recording; on the other hand, USB power is more convenient for on-site recording because you don't have to find a wall outlet. I haven't ever used an M-Audio Axiom, but my M-Audio Radium 49 is a piece of crap. Some of the keys stick, the potentiometers don't center in the same place, the mod wheel went out of alignment and had to be disconnected, the keyboard tries to reinstall itself if I don't plug it into the same USB port every time I use it, and the M-Audio driver CD has a bizarre, unevenly weighted label that causes the CD to make a huge racket in the drive. I don't know if M-Audio's higher-end/more recent gear is better than what I have, but personally I would never, ever spend $500 on an M-Audio keyboard. I'm pretty sure you can get something similarly featured from a better company for $400-$600. (Just looking around Musician's Friend, I see a StudioLogic with faders, etc. for $520.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuIzA Posted August 25, 2010 Author Share Posted August 25, 2010 yes, the pre-amps are one of the main reasons I'm considering the Mackie. The Fast Track Pro also has S/PDIF I/O, but I really don't need that. I've also heard of the AC power vs. USB bus power issues. I'd like to hear more opinions, as I've had little experience with it myself... it didn't seem to make a whole lot of difference to me, but then again, the Fast Track Ultra is crap. As long as it works well, it's fine by me... I travel a good deal, so chances are I won't be bringing the AC adapter with me, also, the metal build of the Mackie will surely be appreaciated for that reason. I've used an Axiom 25 once, it seemed pretty decent, but I only tried it with Reason 3, it seemed fairly easy to use... but I still don't know how well it would work with sonar, not only with its midi/synths but to control it as well. I liked the Axiom (at least in prospect) because of the trigger pads and dedicated transport controls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyril the Wolf Posted August 27, 2010 Share Posted August 27, 2010 The USB power only thing can sometimes cause computer issues. I'd use the outlet if I had the ability to at this time. I recommend the Fast-Track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanthos Posted August 27, 2010 Share Posted August 27, 2010 I used to have an Axiom 61 and loved it. As far as a MIDI controller goes, I've never seen a keyboard with better action. It wasn't the absolute easiest thing to program, but if you're using it mainly for arranging and mixing instead of live performance where you might want various knobs to do different things at different times, it does the job really well. Not familiar though with the Axiom Pro differences though, so I don't know if it's worth the extra money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big giant circles Posted August 27, 2010 Share Posted August 27, 2010 Love my Axiom 61. Can't answer whether or not the hyper control is really going to be something you need or not. I have lately had mixed feelings with M-Audio interfaces. I have a Profire2626 AND a Fast Track Ultra, and when I first got it I loved it. But I have come to realize that M-Audio cannot write effective drivers to save their lives. I have received countless BSOD's (on Windows 7 and Vista) which are 100% related to the drivers. If you visit M-Audio's forums, you will see that the tech support is a train wreck of people having unresolved issues and failed promises to fix the driver issues that many of its users experience. See for yourself: http://forums.m-audio.com/showthread.php?17642-**Official-Info-FireWire-Series-Drivers**-Updated-5-26 http://forums.m-audio.com/showthread.php?17643-**Official-Info-USB-Audio-Series-Drivers**-Updated-5-26 (Note I've posted in those, and also note the date of the thread's creation, the date of the last update by M-Audio, and the current date). The issue has been unresolved for over 6 months. I think that's what really shook my faith in the company. I dealt with them a lot when I was at Guitar Center and speaking to them directly, I never had any issues, but not being able to resolve something as crucial as a decent driver is just... bleh. If you're on a Mac, I suppose it won't matter. At any rate, there's my two cents, good luck, let us know what you decide Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level 99 Posted August 27, 2010 Share Posted August 27, 2010 My recommendation for USB-powered audio interface: http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Focusrite-Saffire-6-USB-Audio-Interface?sku=583658 I've had that thing down to as love as 3ms latency in ASIO mode and it still works like a charm. Very awesome considering that, if I remember correctly, it uses USB 1.1. Also, the preamps on this thing are really awesome considering the price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuIzA Posted August 27, 2010 Author Share Posted August 27, 2010 Love my Axiom 61. Can't answer whether or not the hyper control is really going to be something you need or not.I have lately had mixed feelings with M-Audio interfaces. I have a Profire2626 AND a Fast Track Ultra, and when I first got it I loved it. But I have come to realize that M-Audio cannot write effective drivers to save their lives. I have received countless BSOD's (on Windows 7 and Vista) which are 100% related to the drivers. If you visit M-Audio's forums, you will see that the tech support is a train wreck of people having unresolved issues and failed promises to fix the driver issues that many of its users experience. See for yourself: http://forums.m-audio.com/showthread.php?17642-**Official-Info-FireWire-Series-Drivers**-Updated-5-26 http://forums.m-audio.com/showthread.php?17643-**Official-Info-USB-Audio-Series-Drivers**-Updated-5-26 (Note I've posted in those, and also note the date of the thread's creation, the date of the last update by M-Audio, and the current date). The issue has been unresolved for over 6 months. I think that's what really shook my faith in the company. I dealt with them a lot when I was at Guitar Center and speaking to them directly, I never had any issues, but not being able to resolve something as crucial as a decent driver is just... bleh. If you're on a Mac, I suppose it won't matter. At any rate, there's my two cents, good luck, let us know what you decide yes, I'm quite familiar with that thread, I've posted in those forums (and in these forums too) because of my FTU, but no one could help. So, this is why I asked, unless MIDI I/O is necessary, I probably won't go with M-Audio again for audio interfaces. My recommendation for USB-powered audio interface:http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Focusrite-Saffire-6-USB-Audio-Interface?sku=583658 I've had that thing down to as love as 3ms latency in ASIO mode and it still works like a charm. Very awesome considering that, if I remember correctly, it uses USB 1.1. Also, the preamps on this thing are really awesome considering the price. interesting.. and yeah, it does use USB 1.1 according to the link. Still, I'm still leaning more toward the mackie for the sturdyness and usb 2.0. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prophetik music Posted August 27, 2010 Share Posted August 27, 2010 i use an axiom 49. i love it. you'll never use the midi, unless you're using the controller for an older midi-based synth that has no keyboard and midi in. usb is the way to go. depending on how portable you want it, and how much cash you've got, you can get a focusrite saffire pro 40 (8 xlr and 1/4" inputs, firewire based) for 450 used. that's what i'm using now, and it's brilliant. it's a rack-mount unit, though, so you'd want a small and portable rack or case to store it and all the cabling you'll have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuIzA Posted August 27, 2010 Author Share Posted August 27, 2010 do any of you guys use the Axiom with Sonar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcana Posted August 27, 2010 Share Posted August 27, 2010 If you really need MIDI I/O later on you can probably get one of these: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Uno.html Just letting you know that you're not entirely out of options if you decide to get an interface without MIDI I/O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prophetik music Posted August 27, 2010 Share Posted August 27, 2010 do any of you guys use the Axiom with Sonar? nope. but i usually manually map everything i do anyways, so it doesn't matter what DAW i use. a keyboard's a keyboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuIzA Posted August 29, 2010 Author Share Posted August 29, 2010 If you really need MIDI I/O later on you can probably get one of these:http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Uno.html Just letting you know that you're not entirely out of options if you decide to get an interface without MIDI I/O. good to know, thanks =) i guess we have a winner then, i'll be going for the mackie. Now i gotta decide between the regular axiom or the axiom pro. EDIT: other MIDI controller suggestions will be much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuIzA Posted March 21, 2011 Author Share Posted March 21, 2011 My recommendation for USB-powered audio interface:http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Focusrite-Saffire-6-USB-Audio-Interface?sku=583658 I've had that thing down to as love as 3ms latency in ASIO mode and it still works like a charm. Very awesome considering that, if I remember correctly, it uses USB 1.1. Also, the preamps on this thing are really awesome considering the price. I hate to be reviving this thread and also double-posting. but the thing is, I should've listened to this earlier and for everyone who might look at this thread looking for setup suggestions, I'd like to warn them about my previous choice. Not only did I end up with an USB 1.1 interface with the Mackie Blackjack, but I also ended up with one whose driver is completely useless. it DOES NOT work with windows 7 or xp. I had to download ASIO4All to make it workable with, but being a limited and old free driver, it eventually started f***ing up with my speakers and headphones' phases and other annoying stuff. Then again, the fact that I had to download an OLD AND FREE driver to make a $200 dollar audio interface workable with is absurd. So, whoever considers this piece of crap, get the Saffire 6 instead. It has the same sturdiness and high quality preamps, plus MIDI, and it ACTUALLY WORKS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level 99 Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Ouch! Really sorry to hear the Blackjack didn't work out for you. Speaking now, I still have the Focusrite Saffire 6 USB and it is as solid as the day I bought it. It is now on two powered monitors that sound great, so my vouching for that device is definitely valid. However, for anyone considering ANY USB devices, I highly encourage you to check here before you do: http://raincomputers.com/windows-watch/ This is a list of many professional-grade audio interfaces, along with their current driver support. It also lists many VSTs and plugins. Strange, though, that here it lists the Mackie Onyx series as having full support. The USB 1.1-issue I can't speak for, but the device just literally refused to load in ASIO mode with the vanilla Blackjack driver? Edit: Just saw the thread on the Mackie support boards that you actually commented on. I went googling to see if the issue was prevalent anywhere else. That is a low-down, dirty shame that they have basically admited that their Windows 7 x64 driver doesn't work and yet they refuse to remove the Windows 7 x64 listing from the supported operating systems list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theshaggyfreak Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Unfortunately, Mackie isn't very well known for having decent support with their computer hardware. Their monitors, mixers and other PA stuff are decent but their computer stuff lacks support. As far as cheap USB interfaces go, I've been using this tiny little ART thing with my laptop. For a basic two channel interface, this thing rocks for $80. One nice thing about it is that it's USB compliant which means not having to install any drivers. Every modern OS should recognize it as soon as you plug it in. You even run the preamps off a 9V battery if you want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prophetik music Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 it's worth noting that, if you've got a device that flat-out won't recognize in w7 - or any windows operating system, for that matter - but supposedly has driver support, you can force-install it through the device manager's hardware profiling service. if i'm not mistaken, there's an open-source asio driver that runs the blackjack, but i don't remember what it is. if i remember correctly, you're not getting advanced functionality, but it'll pass audio through both ways. the .inf for the system isn't correct since it's not designed for it, but you can make one and point it at the right files. i'd use XP mode to see what files the driver uses (device manager, properties, device details, related files), then force-install those specific file names from the w7-compatible driver. edit: first response on google outlines basically what i'd suggest doing. w7's interface isn't significantly different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darangen Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 do any of you guys use the Axiom with Sonar? I don't have an Axiom, but I do have M-Audio's Keystation Pro 88. I previously used it with Sonar 7 and it worked wonderfully, so I'd doubt that another M-Audio controller wouldn't work just as well with Sonar 8. Right now, however, I'm using Sonar X1 and having problems with my M-Audio Keystation. As for the interface, I'd recommend PreSonus over both Mackie and M-Audio. They use a firewire or usb connection though, so if you're looking for an analog connection to your DAW, PreSonus isn't for you. They're a bit pricier, but I believe they're worth the cost. PreSonus FireStudio Mobile PreSonus AudioBox USB I recently went from M-Audio to PreSonus and haven't regretted it for a second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabeel Ansari Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 The Axiom's keys are very clicky, at least the one I tried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theshaggyfreak Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 I've been a huge fan of Rolands controllers for a while but they're not everyone's cup of tea. I've been using the same MIDI controller for like 5 years now. I basically have an older version of what is now that A-500 Pro. The keybed on the Roland controllers just feel good to me. I personally have never liked the action on the M-audio stuff. The biggest problem with the Roland controllers, though, is that a lot of people hate having the control stick rather than wheels for modulation and pitch. I've been using it so long, though, that I got used to it. As far as drivers go, I've never had an issue using Rolands stuff with any software I tried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuIzA Posted March 23, 2011 Author Share Posted March 23, 2011 They cite the onyx series as being supported. there are quite a few products, so I'm assuming they don't have any problems. It also mentions the M-Audio fast track ultra as having full support, and well, I have that, and got blue screen of death errors because of it. That's the main reason I decided to switch interfaces in the first place. and apparently, there haven't been any updates since about the time I was trying to use it. I'm also using Sonar X1, I haven't had a single issue with it yet, but I have yet to try it with automap and the 61 SL mkII. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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