Help with midi controller sustain problems

[zikon]

Hi everyone. For some reason the last time I had this loaded on windows xp it worked fine. but stupid me wanted windows 7. after a headache of everything with my EWQLSO install with win7, I moved back to xp, thinking i would come back to the enjoyment i was once at..

I use fl studio 8, and am using a Yamaha DGX-505 as my midi controller.

<<("Problem")>>

My problem is, when I play a sustained note on my controller, and then press the same note (while still all the time holding down the sustain peddle), it cuts the first note's sustain off, and restarts the note again, as if there was never a previous note being sustained. Like some kind of override.

The sustain works with multiple notes that are not the same key. For example I can sustain a whole chord, or going up a scale. Its just as soon as i hit a note that is already sustain, it cuts it off, and replays it, losing my previous sustain.

So if i'm playing piano sound, and i hit a really LOUD note, but want some trailing soft notes of that same note, its impossible for me to get the sustains to hold. sounds like if I'm not holding the sustain peddle at all.

Is there anyone out there that can help me... please...

[Sbeast]

So are you using the Yamaha DGX-505 to trigger midi events inside FL Studio or are you playing it on its own?

[Kanthos]

Uh, isn't that how it's supposed to behave? I'm not aware of any keyboard or VST that would let you trigger the same note with the same sound twice at different velocities, sustain or otherwise. If you're a pianist playing a real piano, for example, how can you make the instrument behave that, say, Middle C is sustained and then hit another Middle C and hear both notes at different volumes? It's not possible on a physical instrument, and I really doubt it's possible here too; any remotely good MIDI device or VST would cut off the first note when the second identical note plays.

I'm certain that it behaved that way for you before your formatting and you're just remembering it wrong.

[Palpable]

I think Kanthos has got it right, but if you want to get that effect, you could use multiple instruments? Course, that probably won't sound realistic. You could also use some heavy reverb (if you aren't), which will give a more realistic trail sound.

[zikon]

Well, then that should be told to EWQLSO.

I just re-installed it, and the piano that comes with the silver package, in the standalone program, it does this effect. But when I load it as a vst in flstudio, it doesnt do it anymore.

And aside from realism to non-realism. The fact is, with the same keyboard as my midi controller, and the same vst EWQLSO (in standalone, and in flstudio) play 2 different ways. It just seems to me that one of them is doing it wrong, and for some reason I want to lean toward flstudio, since this occurs with other vsts as well, inside flstudio.

If anyone knows about this, and if there is a way to fix it, please share.

Thank you

[Nabeel Ansari]

Your best bet is to just clone the instrument like said before.

[SonicThHedgog]

you want to make a reverb channel like they do in midi and trackters/chiptunes?

[zikon]

Ok, let me help rephrase everything...

In flstudio, in the piano roll.

If I make 1 note really long, at the highest velocity, then over lap that note, with one starting on a different beat, and a softer velocity. I can hear the effect just fine. The first note continues on, like its suppose to in the piano roll, while you also hear the 2nd note in the background.

But when I try to do this from my yamaha, it cuts off the first note.

From a recording aspect, when I record the midi keys I play.

If i hit a note down, while holding the sustain pedel it should write it in the piano roll as a holding note, untill i release my foot from the pedel.

But what it is doing is when I hold the sustain pedel and consistently hit the same note, in the piano roll, it stops, then starts the note again.

The thing is, I can achieve the effect I want, I would just have to do it manually now, (which isnt how it always use to be)

So what i'm asking isnt going beyong the capability of flstudio.

For some reason, the midi controller is releasing the first note, when it shouldnt.

[Nabeel Ansari]

you want to make a reverb channel like they do in midi and trackters/chiptunes?

What? Did you even read anything zikon said?

Also, zikon, see if anything's wrong with your MIDI controller sustain pedal, as in try other samplers and synths and see if it works fine. If not, your pedal/keyboard is bwoken.

[Moseph]

Ok, let me help rephrase everything...

In flstudio, in the piano roll.

If I make 1 note really long, at the highest velocity, then over lap that note, with one starting on a different beat, and a softer velocity. I can hear the effect just fine. The first note continues on, like its suppose to in the piano roll, while you also hear the 2nd note in the background.

But when I try to do this from my yamaha, it cuts off the first note.

From a recording aspect, when I record the midi keys I play.

If i hit a note down, while holding the sustain pedel it should write it in the piano roll as a holding note, untill i release my foot from the pedel.

But what it is doing is when I hold the sustain pedel and consistently hit the same note, in the piano roll, it stops, then starts the note again.

The thing is, I can achieve the effect I want, I would just have to do it manually now, (which isnt how it always use to be)

So what i'm asking isnt going beyong the capability of flstudio.

For some reason, the midi controller is releasing the first note, when it shouldnt.

Sustaining a note with the pedal and dragging the note to be longer in the piano roll editor are not the same thing as far as MIDI is concerned.

When you drag the note to make it longer, you're affecting the duration of the note (the MIDI data tells the VST, "This note is now longer"). When you use the pedal, pedal down and pedal up events are transmitted on one of the control channels (the MIDI data tells the VST, "The pedal is down, and now it's up"). As far as I know, recording pedaling never affects actual note duration in the piano roll -- just the pedal events, which the VST then interprets as an instruction to sustain the note beyond its written length. Most VSTs should still layer the same pitch as long as the pedal is down even if they aren't overlapped in the piano roll, though. Is it possible that you had some option set in FL or the VST previously that affected how pedaling is recorded?

If you want to play around with manually inputting pedal data to see if that can give any insight into the problem, the pedal is recorded on MIDI control channel 64.

EDIT: I remember that GarretGraves had trouble figuring out how to access the MIDI control channels in FL Studio. Is it possible that FL simply isn't recording the pedal at all? Can someone who uses FL (I don't) comment on how this works in FL?

[Kanthos]

But when I try to do this from my yamaha, it cuts off the first note.

From a recording aspect, when I record the midi keys I play.

If i hit a note down, while holding the sustain pedel it should write it in the piano roll as a holding note, untill i release my foot from the pedel.

The Yamaha is doing the right thing. As I just explained with notes, MIDI data isn't continuous, like audio. No MIDI controller does anything continuously with a sustain pedal either. The sequence of MIDI events you generate by pressing a note, sustaining, releasing the note, and playing it again looks something like this, and note that other than the near-instantaneous MIDI events, the controller isn't sending out anything else. I guarantee that the Note On and Note Off events are generated by the keys and are independent by any events generated by the pedals. A Note Off is a Note Off; your Yamaha is doing the right thing.

Note On (Note = C4, Velocity = 64)

Controller (Controller number = 64, which is sustain, value = 127)

Note Off (Note = C4)

Note On (Note = C4, Velocity = 127)

There is no MIDI message to indicate that a note is still being pressed (technically, there's aftertouch, but it has no bearing on what you're doing here and your keyboard may not support it anyway, and I'm not going to confuse the issue by explaining it in detail). It is always up to whoever is receiving the MIDI data (EWQL here, with FL Studio recording it and routing the data to EWQL) to use the sustain pedal in whatever way is effective for that instrument. Some synths need not respond to sustain! If so, it wouldn't be right to have the controller triggering a second note before ending the first one, as a synth like that would have *no way* to deal with that musically.

If I make 1 note really long, at the highest velocity, then over lap that note, with one starting on a different beat, and a softer velocity. I can hear the effect just fine. The first note continues on, like its suppose to in the piano roll, while you also hear the 2nd note in the background.

But what it is doing is when I hold the sustain pedel and consistently hit the same note, in the piano roll, it stops, then starts the note again.

[zikon]

Kanthos.

My dearest apologies...

I opened up an old project I made before I did all this reinstalling... at a time where I thought it was working properly. And when I looked at the piano roll, to my surprise, its doing the same thing it is now. I guess I just didnt pay too close attention..

But its just weird though, that I get a different effect when playing 'live' using the standalone player from EWQLSO.

And yes, after you explained a few things, and realizing it, that I guess it just isnt something the controller can do, but manually, fl studio can do it.

well. I thank you all for your help, and helpful information.

[Tydin]

I just tend to up the reverb on the hard notes if I want to sustain them, just experiment, you'd be surprised what you'll come up with, often the most simple action is usually the right one.