Propellerhead ReCycle problems

[big giant circles]

See topic. If anyone is experienced/familiar/adept in this program, I have questions for you.

Anyone?

[SonicThHedgog]

See topic. If anyone is experienced/familiar/adept in this program, I have questions for you.

Anyone?

what is ReCycle, i'v heard of it and i never new exsactly what the program did

[big giant circles]

*bump*

Nobody here uses it? C'mon, surely someone has experience with this.

[Kidd Cabbage]

what is ReCycle, i'v heard of it and i never new exsactly what the program did

It takes drum loops, detects the hits in the loop, and slices the loop into a bunch of smaller segments for each hit. These slices and their timing information is stored in a file called a rex file.

Rex files are used in things like Dr. Rex and Stylux RMX for drum loops, so you can use keys to trigger different hits of the beat.

[SonicThHedgog]

It takes drum loops, detects the hits in the loop, and slices the loop into a bunch of smaller segments for each hit. These slices and their timing information is stored in a file called a rex file.

Rex files are used in things like Dr. Rex and Stylux RMX for drum loops, so you can use keys to trigger different hits of the beat.

kinda like fl's slicer right?

[Kidd Cabbage]

No idea. I don't use FL. ReCycle isn't a plugin that plays back the loops, though, it just exports a Rex file, which has become a universal filetype for sliced loops.

[SonicThHedgog]

No idea. I don't use FL. ReCycle isn't a plugin that plays back the loops, though, it just exports a Rex file, which has become a universal filetype for sliced loops.

Ahh i see, im just gunna stick to ableton and slicing with fl

[Souliarc]

While I would loooooove to have ReCycle as a tool (as it seems to be the ONLY tool that exports rex files), it's exclusivity comes at quite a monetary cost.

I've almost considered buying SliceX from Imageline because the Fruity Slicer just sounds awesome for what I want to do as far as triggering slices with MIDI notes and slicing in general. Or getting LiveSlice. From typing slice so much, it has became apparent to me that the word sounds really cool and feels satisfying to say

For now, I'll just stick to creating Groove Clips in Sonar and importing them into Cakewalk's old school Cyclone DXi =) That's right, I said DXi.

[SenPi]

Ive used recycle, but im not sure Ive used it enough to help? Tell us your question and I'll see if I know the answer.

NOTE: REX files also work natively with Ableton Live. I use it with Ableton and Reason all the time

[avaris]

Hey Jimbo here is a free tutorial supposedly featuring some advanced Recycle techniques:

http://www.samplecraze.com/product.php/278/recycle-a-fun-journey-mauling-drum-beats-into-new-textures/

[big giant circles]

Yo Shaun, thanks for the link man

I actually already stumbled across that video on Youtube though, lol

Actually, my question had to do with both transient detection (which absolutely SUCKS in ReCycle IMHO) and also, whenever I insert a new marker to designate a new transient slice, then play back the preview at the ORIGINAL recorded tempo, there's an audible cutout (briefly) where the first slice ends and the next begins, and I can't figure out why it does that. It's really frustrating. Second, I'm slicing melodic loops, not drum loops, so while I understand that the program may have a bit more trouble detecting transients, they're still super easy to see visually, and I find it frustrating that the auto-detection is as bad as it is.

[Native Dialect]

I use Reason and ReCycle (have yet to try Record). ReCycle isn't just for creating drum loops. Anyone using it just for that is almost wasting their time. You could chop files in Audacity and use ReDrum to play individual hits, if that is all you plan to do. ReCycle can be used to create any kind of audio loop or even an effect (with the help of things like the combinator, reverb, digital delay line and scream). For instance, I took a chopped loop of the amen break that had a really nice glitch stutter. I used ReCycle to isolate that small slice. I then used Dr.Rex and attached a digital delay with a four second response, threw on a gated reverb and compressed it with scream. The end result is what you hear at ~1:16 into this song that I created

By no means am I an expert with Reason or Recycle, but it would be a mistake to only look at ReCycle as a tool for chopping drum loops for rearrangement.

[SenPi]

By no means am I an expert with Reason or Recycle, but it would be a mistake to only look at ReCycle as a tool for chopping drum loops for rearrangement.

Recycle was created to chop loops. End of story. It has some other stuff like effects and whatnot, but its basic principle is to chop loops, so when people see it as a tool for chopping loops, thats exactly what it was meant to do. Doing any post processing is about messing with a chopped up sample in whichever program, doesn't really have anything to do with recycle itself.

[big giant circles]

Recycle was created to chop loops. End of story. It has some other stuff like effects and whatnot, but its basic principle is to chop loops, so when people see it as a tool for chopping loops, thats exactly what it was meant to do. Doing any post processing is about messing with a chopped up sample in whichever program, doesn't really have anything to do with recycle itself.

Exactly, I believe ReCycle was made specifically for slicing loops (primarily drums, though you *can* do melodic--[though not very well as you'll see below]). It's basically an audio editor within an audio editor so that you can turn one audio clip into several so that you can later rearrange the slices in any way you choose using whatever tools can read rex files, or even import them into something like Stylus RMX. Creating glitches is something that results from doing exactly that. Otherwise, it seems to me that rex can't really do anything other than modify the attack and release of each slice and doesn't offer any effects beyond a basic compressor and EQ.

Anyway, so here's an audio example to help describe my problem. (BTW, this loop is available in the free loop bundle on www.impactsoundworks.com)

Here's the original loop:

http://www.biggiantcircles.com/stuff/recycleglitches/80bpm%20chord%201a%202m%20LF.wav

And here's what it sounds like after I've created all the slices of individual strums/attacks/transients:

http://www.biggiantcircles.com/stuff/recycleglitches/80bpm%20chord%201a%202m%20LF%20bounced%20rex.wav

I haven't changed anything, all I've done is insert the slice markers, but you can clearly hear that it seems that ReCycle has automatically faded each loop out at the end. The tempo's are the same, and I've made sure that each slice has an immediate attack and an infinite release (which SHOULD prevent it from fading out, I would think).

So I have no idea why it's doing that. Also, IMO ReCycle is clunky and awkward and simply poorly programmed. They don't make proper use of two mouse buttons, there are no keyboard shortcuts/macros, the transient detection is simply terrible, and of course, it inserts tiny pauses in between slices as shown above. Bleh. Me am frustrated.

*edit*

Here, to prove my point about the transient detection, here's an image. You can VISIBLY see the transients, yet ReCycle has missed several blatant ones while instead adding these tiny slices of just, wtf. Things that clearly are NOT attacks. $@%#!^#

[SenPi]

hmm interesting.. I haven't ever come across this problem myself, so I'm not sure how to help.

Also yeah, its transient detection isn't the best. I usually just cut the slices myself

[big giant circles]

Yeah, so I've pretty much written off ReCylce as a colossal piece of shit. This is probably the worst programming I've seen in a single piece of soundware ever.

No keycommands, no "snap to groove" options, no advanced grid view (like swing vs. straight), no useful keyboard shortcuts "how about "p" for pencil, "s" for select, "x" for mute, "l" for lock etc etc etc, unintuitive zoom (seriously have people not figured out that the mousewheel is awesome for zoooming in and out?), piss-poor transient detection (that's the whole point of the program! wtf!!!!), clicky silence when you insert a slice marker, and it opens a new window for EVERYTHING.

Either Propellerhead are a bunch of morons, or else the people who write their software don't actually use it. And they must not be getting particularly experienced people to test it.

I wouldn't care so much if only Rex format wasn't proprietary to them, and Stylus RMX could convert wav or some other form of sliced beats instead of only that. AAAAAARGGGHHH.

I'm also a bit amazed that I haven't found a single helpful google hit about any of these issues. I cannot believe more people aren't vocalizing these obvious flaws. Ehh.

[/huge hate-rant]

[SenPi]

well to be fair I dont think they have ever upgraded recycle since like.. reason 2 came out. so, its really an old piece of software.

[Nivi]

I agree that it is old and broken in weird ways, but to address at least a couple of your problems: When you bounce a loop out, ReCycle will append its fading tail onto each slice for slower tempos. If you want to hear this pre-bounce, hit the 'preview toggle' button (on the left of the transport bar, looks like a knob with a play arrow on top of it). Ctrl/cmd+1-4 are the keyboard shortcuts for the mouse tools. I also think that since the idea is you creatively arrange it in the destination sequencer, fancy groove tools in ReCycle itself would be redundant and potentially limiting. All of this falls apart, of course, when you have to spend about ten minutes on each loop cleaning up your slices.

[Retrotation]

I cannot believe more people aren't vocalizing these obvious flaws. Ehh.

[/huge hate-rant]

Because... they're not that big of a deal? I think Ableton's transient detection is even worse IMO. Just select the markers and press your delete key where they don't belong. The clicks and pops are because the markers aren't placed at the beginning of the wave (0db mark), which means you'll have to go in an individually edit each marker where there is a serious pop issue.

And when it skips a transient, I think it might have to deal with the transient not being clearly enough defined for it to place a definite marker requiring human help. The dual marker meaning "I'm not sure, it could be either."

As far as I know, all slice programs have these issues to an extent... Recycle is actually one of the better ones I've used.

[Gario]

Well, by the looks of the program it seems to use a form of temporal gestalt formulation, so errors like that are to be expected. The short answer, though (for those that don't want to read the source) is that the program detects the difference in change of wavelength before and after a particular point, and compares it to another point in the sound file. For the points that 'obviously' should be parsed, notice that those portions are relatively rounded, so the program doesn't detect it as a parse, while the 'WTF' moments probably have a sharp contrast in a small area (unnoticeable in the picture because of how it's compressed).

I'm not making excuses for the program (I just fought with the program for my last remix), but perhaps that might help answer what is wrong with the program (and others like it).