Brandon Strader Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 /thread aka that guy wins ^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anosou Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 I majored in English :nicework::nicework: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabeel Ansari Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Sound chip? I don't think I've ever actually made it to the end in the PC version to know for sure how it plays there. I know that the progress I did make in the game, all the music was played with Microsoft GS Wavetable generic thing. So it sound like a... err.... .... afk I was referring to the Play Station, not the PC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meeting_Gman Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 CROWBARMAN go get some programming done, don't spend all day sitting around arguing about WHAT IS MIDI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crowbar Man Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Mustin: 1.) If hes saying OWA was not a sequenced track, he is wrong. Proof is in the PSF. 2.) Correct. PSG, FM, or PCM. MIDI generally has never been used to directly play music from consoles. Sometimes they may use MIDI to create the songs, and then use a sound engine /sample bank to play them back, but the sound engine is the middleware. The console has no idea what MIDI is 3.) Correct. Gman: I'm arguing on the internet. This is important. And you are off topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djpretzel Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 CROWBARMAN go get some programming done, don't spend all day sitting around arguing about WHAT IS MIDI Baby don't hurt me.... don't hurt me... no more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Strader Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 WHAT IS MIDI Baby don't hurt me.... don't hurt me... no more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zircon Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 1.) If hes saying OWA was not a sequenced track, he is wrong. Proof is in the PSF. My point was about the choir specifically. Yes, I understand that it was broken into smaller chunks. But surely you agree there is a LARGE difference between, say: * A set of samples consisting of consonants, pitched vowels and loop points that can be strung together to create words, chords and phrases at any tempo and in any key and * A entire choral piece recorded once and then simply sliced up into smaller chunks To say that the first thing is equivalent to the second is VERY misleading. If I say "I used a sampled choir in my track", the implication that basically any music maker would take away from that is that I used something like the first option: a sample library consisting of tons of vowels, consonants and pitches, painstakingly sequenced into a (nonetheless unrealistic) performance. They would NOT assume that I recorded a full choir singing an entire piece and then chopped it up. So that's why I'm saying it's more accurate to say the choir was "prerecorded" and not sequenced. When you say "sequenced", it implies that multisampled single notes and articulations were used to construct the phrase, not that a piece was chopped into smaller phrases and played back in order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Strader Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Yeah, what he said. You are sequencing a PRE-RECORDED bit of recorded choir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crowbar Man Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 *A set of samples consisting of consonants, pitched vowels and loop points that can be strung together to create words, chords and phrases at any tempo and in any keyand * A entire choral piece recorded once and then simply sliced up into smaller chunks Well, it really does the former, not the later. Its a sequenced track. Its not any different than voice clips in a MOD/IT/XM/etc. They could play those choir clips at different pitches if they wanted to, but why? And all the other instruments samples ARE playing at different pitches. ONLY the choir samples stays at the same pitch (and I could be wrong about that, they could be playing at different pitches). OWA is more than just a choir, its got other instruments playing too. My point is its being played via realtime PCM channels, its not streaming in any fashion. Its clever programming. Besides, in PCM, all instruments are "prerecorded". We're not talking about PSG or FM here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zircon Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Right but effectively it's being played back in the order it was recorded, at the same tempo, and at the same pitches. They didn't use a "sampled choir" per se, they took a choral piece and sliced it up. That's an important distinction and one I just wanted to make clear here. I don't think we're disagreeing on the technical aspect of things at least. The entire FF7 soundtrack, OWA included, is not based around entire recorded pieces sliced up and triggered, but very short individual samples/synthesized sounds assembled into full songs. That song is the one exception and shouldn't be lumped in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crowbar Man Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Well I can kinda see your point, but only to the choir samples/"instrument". The other instruments used in OWA are business as usual. All samples and playing at different pitches. So its not like the entire track is a sample playing in a specific order But we can both agree its definitely a sequenced track and not streamed/redbook/xa/etc. Its an interesting piece in more than one way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K.B. Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Regardless of this thread's discussion, there will be a band named MIDI AS FUCK. And it will be awesome. Any disagreement on that is untenable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Strader Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Like a MIDI like a MIDI now nownow nownow now I'm feeling lo-fi like a MIDI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDX Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 I can't tell if the author is trolling or if he really does get tripped up over spilled milk. Some people are strange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analoq Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 We can pretend we don't know what they're trying to say, but let's be honest: We do. Most of the time, yes. But even if we understand what they're trying to say, it does not mean there's no merit in trying to educate people on what MIDI actually is. Many may not care, true, but some people are happy to be elucidated. English grammar and spelling are not always intuitive - just because we can understand someone's poor spelling/grammar doesn't mean we can't expect better of them, even if they are making predictable mistakes. default MIDI playback, which most users will never stray from, has sounded quite similar for over ten years, probably more like twenty. 10 years is more likely. In 1991 most people I knew didn't even have a soundcard and for the few years thereafter only OPL3 and the like FM sound quality was available. First soundcard with a wavetable I owned was a Gravis Ultrasound in 1994 (which sounded very little like the Microsoft or QuickTime GM synths) cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabeel Ansari Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Well I can kinda see your point, but only to the choir samples/"instrument". The other instruments used in OWA are business as usual. All samples and playing at different pitches. So its not like the entire track is a sample playing in a specific order I'm pretty sure Zircon was only ever talking about the choir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crowbar Man Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 But he made it kinda sound like it was a seperate track from the rest when its just samples like the rest of the instruments. That's all im trying to say. They for sure aren't being streamed in any fashion. And its not an entire recording just small clips repeated at different sections, cleverly arranged to sound like a full song sung by a choir Just to be clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Coop Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Well... MIDI sends a "note on" message for whatever sound you want it to be... And a "note off" message, so that everything doesn't just become a mass of noise as notes pile on top of each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollgagh Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 But he made it kinda sound like it was a seperate track from the rest when its just samples like the rest of the instruments. p sure that you were the only one reading it as such Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djpretzel Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Most of the time, yes. But even if we understand what they're trying to say, it does not mean there's no merit in trying to educate people on what MIDI actually is. Many may not care, true, but some people are happy to be elucidated. English grammar and spelling are not always intuitive - just because we can understand someone's poor spelling/grammar doesn't mean we can't expect better of them, even if they are making predictable mistakes.10 years is more likely. In 1991 most people I knew didn't even have a soundcard and for the few years thereafter only OPL3 and the like FM sound quality was available. First soundcard with a wavetable I owned was a Gravis Ultrasound in 1994 (which sounded very little like the Microsoft or QuickTime GM synths) cheers. We'll split the difference and settle on 15? Even at 10, that's eons in technology, specifically music technology, and it seems the situation is likely to persist. I'm all for educating people, and if they're saying "Sounds like a MIDI" because they truly have no clue why that statement could be misconstrued/inaccurate, go for it. There's ALWAYS merit in trying to educate people, or almost always. For example, to be just a little catty, you don't elucidate someone. You elucidate something TO someone. So in this instance they'd be happy to have the topic elucidated for them, but not to be elucidated themselves. Hopefully this was elucidating I had an Ensoniq back in the day. Great American company with a strangely French-sounding name. I don't think we should stop trying to educate people, but I also don't think the statement "Sounds like a MIDI" is particularly bad/wrong/problematic, because - while there might be a misunderstanding - there's no real miscommunication. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noTuX Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 You can piss into the wind all you want to, but majority implementation of MIDI playback is really rather consistent, and it's exactly what people are referring to when they say something "Sounds like a MIDI". We can pretend we don't know what they're trying to say, but let's be honest: We do. We know that they're saying it the "wrong" way, but in this case the "wrong" way is also by FAR the most intuitive way. Can we just use this explanation, and just let the shit go? Did we seriously HAVE to make a thread about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analoq Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 My first language is tagaloq! Seriously, my English is so often wince-worthy, you'd think it was my second language. So I am always happy to be corrected, thanks. Anyways, I don't see the "sounds like MIDI" comments much anymore and I do think they will eventually fade away due to deprecation rather than education, as I mentioned before. Unless high-quality MIDI file playback is the next killer feature in iPods or something.... cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustin Posted January 30, 2011 Author Share Posted January 30, 2011 So we're all okay calling all soda pops "Coke" because everyone knows what we're talking about. Got it. I give up. WHY am I on the Internet again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Coop Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 I give up. WHY am I on the Internet again? For the porn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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