Nintendo Wii U

[Bleck]

sorry i didn't read 50 pages of nattering back and forth, bleck.

yeah see pointing out that you didn't read the fucking thread doesn't give you the high ground unfortunately

conversations that you have not yet deigned to participate in do actually happen and it's incredibly pedantic of you to expect people to pretend as if they haven't for your benefit

[zircon]

I bought my 360 arcade for like 300 in 2007, so no I don't think most consumers would go for a 400+ console out the gate. Ps3 and 360 prices came down fast.

[EC2151]

Most people have already voiced my concerns, such as lack of actual WiiU games, fear for a continued dearth of meaningful third-party support, an unwieldy and expensive controller, lack of GC support...

While my older brother is pretty impressed with the whole thing, I dunno about it. I'm glad stuff like friend codes are being done away with, but the controller, ie, the main selling point of the system if we go by the conference, will end up being as gimmicky as the Wii Remotes ultimately proved (with very, very, very few games actually being ENHANCED by the inclusion of motion controls).

Without the GC support it still means going through the hassle of getting a Wiimote and a Classic Controller Pro (because the original CC was so shitty that it's not worth it) to play any of the good games on the new console.

I must really be colored skeptical by the relatively poor output of worthwhile games on the Wii this last year or two... Nothing on VC (with so much to choose from!), nothing on Wiiware, no real major games outside of DKCR... It's just been lackluster. And from the conference, they want us to get on the same wagon a second time around!

[Nekofrog]

I bought my 360 arcade for like 300 in 2007, so no I don't think most consumers would go for a 400+ console out the gate. Ps3 and 360 prices came down fast.

PS3 prices stayed high for way too long, Sony kept believing their own hype that people would eventually wake up and think that $600 for a system was a good idea

[Brandon Strader]

If you guys can hold on to your britches long enough, you can do what I did.. I got an Xbox360 Elite in 2009 for $299... COULD have waited longer until the slim came out, I don't regret this though.

Got a PS3 also for $299 last Christmas, came with Uncharted 2, Karate Kid, Pixeljunk Shooter and a 160gb hard drive I think. It's good to wait.

Yeah, I got a new Wii for $250, but then I sold it, then bought one after the price dropped. *shrug*

[EC2151]

My brother bought a 360 sometime in January, because he wanted to play more fun games than the Wii had been offering.

[Brushfire]

Wii U is lame.

Also this:

http://consumerist.com/2011/06/nintendo-admits-it-used-footage-from-other-systems-to-show-off-capabilities-of-wii-u.html

[prophetik music]

I bought my 360 arcade for like 300 in 2007, so no I don't think most consumers would go for a 400+ console out the gate. Ps3 and 360 prices came down fast.

360 arcade, yeah. the middle model with the 60gb drive was 350$, and the elite was a hundred more at that point.

considering that the 360 shipped for 400$ new for a loong time, yeah, they'll go for it =)

[zircon]

Except which system got far more sales on launch and afterward? 360 or Wii? Nintendo, at least until the 3DS, has always been known for low prices. They've seen with the underwhelming 3DS launch what happens when you come out the gate with too high of a price tag. The $250 Wii made them absurd amounts of profit and market share, I just don't think they are going to piss away their share and price hundreds above that. If they do then they're in for another bad launch, just like the 3DS. Not saying it's impossible that they'll price high, just that I think it's improbable.

PS3 prices stayed high for way too long, Sony kept believing their own hype that people would eventually wake up and think that $600 for a system was a good idea

Do you really think the PS3 was priced high because Sony "believed their own hype"? Because

http://kotaku.com/5018899/sony-lost-over-3-billion-to-ps3-cost-pricing-imbalance

Even WITH those higher prices they were still losing absurd amounts of money because of the production costs. Specifically:

http://www.megagames.com/news/sony-not-losing-money-playstation-3-hardware-any-more

It wasn't until 10 months ago that they STOPPED losing money, and it was estimated they were eating a loss of $240-300 per console. So no, I'm pretty sure their high price was 100% due to the fact that they didn't want to lose billions of dollars more on what they already were going to lose.

[prophetik music]

Except which system got far more sales on launch and afterward? 360 or Wii? Nintendo, at least until the 3DS, has always been known for low prices. They've seen with the underwhelming 3DS launch what happens when you come out the gate with too high of a price tag. The $250 Wii made them absurd amounts of profit and market share, I just don't think they are going to piss away their share and price hundreds above that. If they do then they're in for another bad launch, just like the 3DS. Not saying it's impossible that they'll price high, just that I think it's improbable.

oh, i'm not arguing that i think a lower price point is better - of course it is! you've gotta take a few things into consideration, though. there wasn't a "new console" crown in the 2006 holiday season, since everything was new. MS and sony didn't have a knock-it-out-of-the-park exclusive to start things off, either, while nintendo had that zelda game that came out. would you buy a new console without knowing what awesome game you're planning on playing on it? i wouldn't, and i haven't - i've always made sure there was that one game or feature i "needed" (halo series for 360, blu-ray awesomeness for ps3, etc). while the 360 and ps3 didn't sell monstrously well right off the bat, they both sold enough consoles that they were successful. obviously the wii's sold more than the other two combined, probably. now is that because of the lower price point, or the motion controls, or the fact that it's nintendo and OMG IT PRINTS MONEY? who knows. likely all of that mattered. would an extra 50$ on the price have made the 360 suddenly more viable? probably not, since the other stuff was what made the wii so sexy to the average consumer.

so, yeah, nintendo's 'known' for lower prices on their consoles, with controllers and peripherals roughly the same price as new stuff from the other big companies. but, with the situation so different this year, i think that a higher price point is definitely possible. the 3ds sold poorly because of cost - definitely! it's a handheld, and the iphone is way cheaper but for a console, people are fine spending looots of money for a set-top box (look at the proliferation of set-top internet tv boxes like googletv and boxee), and with nintendo being the only new thing this season i definitely think that they'll take advantage of the recent rise in consumer spending and make people pay lots for their stuff.

in terms of comparison, look at the N64 and PS1 launch. the PS1 released a year before the N64 at the 400$ price point. it had a very successful launch, as much because the huge stock of good games as anything. next year rolls around, they had dropped to 300$, and the N64 came out also at 300$. now, of the two, the PS1 was superior hardware, and the N64 suffered from a higher cost to build - even though it was a year later! - mainly because of how much more expensive the cartridges were than discs. either way, the PS1 wound up selling over a hundred million units over the course of the console's lifetime (as of 2005, they were out of production in 2006). so was the higher price point detrimental? not really. are people more careful of their money? definitely. are there a lot of people who are conditioned to a 500$ PS3 and a 500$ 360 bundle, and see a HD launch system at 400$ as not a big deal? absolutely. you'd be horrified how many people used to come into gamecrazy while i worked there and plop down 600$ in cash for a new system, some controllers, and a game or two, particularly when they clearly couldn't afford it. you'd also be horrified by how many people came in and bought every single terrible sonic title just because it's sonic and they have to play every sonic game. that's just the market for games. the new thing always sells like crazy, and if they get it out with a minimum of major bugs (aka RROD), then they're just printing money.

Edited June 10, 2011 by prophetik music

[Benjamin Briggs]

Wii U is lame.

Also this:

http://consumerist.com/2011/06/nintendo-admits-it-used-footage-from-other-systems-to-show-off-capabilities-of-wii-u.html

lol I love how the article refers to it as "somewhat shady"

yeah ok

[The Damned]

I gotta wonder if that whole footage thing is because Nintendo just got the hardware finalized recently (like a month or so ago) and the few companies that have a dev kit haven't had any time to do anything yet.

[Brushfire]

I gotta wonder if that whole footage thing is because Nintendo just got the hardware finalized recently (like a month or so ago) and the few companies that have a dev kit haven't had any time to do anything yet.

DONT GO SOFT ON EM!! l WONT ALLOW IT!!

[Overflow]

Besides, the HD zelda and bird demo were actual Wii U footage.

[The Damned]

Seeing how those would have been done by Nintendo, sure, that makes sense. But anyone outside of Nintendo might not have had the chance to make anything worth showing.

OR IT'S A CONSPIRACY.

Either way.

Oh, and Brushie? You're the only one I can be hard on. Or in.

[Orpheon]

The HD Zelda Tech demo apparently had an interactive component; also it can be seen running through the WiiPad:

All in all, love the bump mapping and lighting effects. If the Zelda tech demos of the past are anything to go by in terms of the final product; then this will be nothing short of jaw-dropping.

Edited June 10, 2011 by Orpheon

[Nekofrog]

The HD Zelda Tech demo apparently had an interactive component; also it can be seen running through the WiiPad:

All in all, love the bump mapping and lighting effects. If the Zelda tech demos of the past are anything to go by in terms of the final product; then this will be nothing short of jaw-dropping.

if its the normal zelda formula, it'll probably be tired and boring. hoping skyward sword breathes life into a dead franchise.

[Brushfire]

http://www.duelinganalogs.com/comic/2011/06/09/real-reason-nintendo-created-the-wii-u/

[Crowbar Man]

in terms of comparison, look at the N64 and PS1 launch. the PS1 released a year before the N64 at the 400$ price point. it had a very successful launch, as much because the huge stock of good games as anything. next year rolls around, they had dropped to 300$, and the N64 came out also at 300$. now, of the two, the PS1 was superior hardware, and the N64 suffered from a higher cost to build - even though it was a year later! - mainly because of how much more expensive the cartridges were than discs. either way, the PS1 wound up selling over a hundred million units over the course of the console's lifetime (as of 2005, they were out of production in 2006).

PS1 was $300, Saturn was the one that was $400 and dropped quickly when the PS1 came out. PS1 did not have superior hardware at all (compared to N64), except the storage/sound capacity of the CD media Vs Cartridge. Everything else (CPU, RAM, Video, etc) was better in the N64. The cartridge format however limited any potential it had, and Nintendo tarnished relations with 3rd parties who liked the CD media better anyways.

A very bad generation for Sega/Nintendo as both companies made terrible mistakes with hardware decisions and 3rd party relations, which Sony took quick advantage of

Edited June 10, 2011 by Crowbar Man

[ambinate]

http://www.duelinganalogs.com/comic/2011/06/09/real-reason-nintendo-created-the-wii-u/

oddly enough, i hadn't considered that possibility.

[Brushfire]

Sadly none of those games will ever make it to America, cause having xray vision is something that is just too far fetched for us.

[Toadofsky]

if its the normal zelda formula, it'll probably be tired and boring. hoping skyward sword breathes life into a dead franchise.

Don't worry, I'm sure it will be Ocarina of Time in some form or another, again. Only this time.....

We get to be like Jake Sully!

Edited June 10, 2011 by Toadofsky

[prophetik music]

PS1 was $300, Saturn was the one that was $400 and dropped quickly when the PS1 came out. PS1 did not have superior hardware at all (compared to N64), except the storage/sound capacity of the CD media Vs Cartridge. Everything else (CPU, RAM, Video, etc) was better in the N64. The cartridge format however limited any potential it had, and Nintendo tarnished relations with 3rd parties who liked the CD media better anyways.

A very bad generation for Sega/Nintendo as both companies made terrible mistakes with hardware decisions and 3rd party relations, which Sony took quick advantage of

according to wikipedia, ps1 launched at 400$ and dropped after a year. and, compared to the N64, it did have superior hardware, which is what i said the N64 had four kilobytes of graphics memory, man. it might have been able to render a few more pixels, but the cartridge could hold next to nothing compared to the 700mb cd format, so they couldn't render anything that wasn't tricked anyways. not to mention that the anti-piracy methods included in the carts made it too expensive to manufacture and produce compared to discs.

[BooDidley7]

according to wikipedia, ps1 launched at 400$ and dropped after a year. and, compared to the N64, it did have superior hardware, which is what i said the N64 had four kilobytes of graphics memory, man. it might have been able to render a few more pixels, but the cartridge could hold next to nothing compared to the 700mb cd format, so they couldn't render anything that wasn't tricked anyways. not to mention that the anti-piracy methods included in the carts made it too expensive to manufacture and produce compared to discs.

Not to be a dick here, but the PS1 launched in the US at $300 in Fall'95. N64 launched a year later at $200 in the US.

N64 had 4 kb of texture memory.

In terms of Graphics, N64 was far better for rendering real-time 3D environments, which is evident if you compare the top racing, FPS, and 3-D games, in terms of sheer graphics and real-time performance. The lone exception MIGHT be Gran Turismo. Also evident in how the N64 could support 4-player multiplay in a lot of its games, whereas most of the time the PS1 could barely cover two (not that there weren't exceptions). And it the N64 also got a boost from 4mb ram expander later on.

Where PS1 really shone though, was the CD media size allowed for storage of big CGI clips which really helped in the promotion of the system when you saw something like a Final Fantasy game in a commercial or still, rendered beautifully by Square's artists, that really made the PS1 look like something new and superior. It probably also helped that Playstation got Square to be an exclusive 3rd party supporter and openly advertised that the CD format was the only way games like FF7 were possible. Also sound was markedly better on the PS1 as well as it didn't suffer from some compression issues some N64 titles had.

And of course, the cheap CD format helped over the expensive chip based cartridges too. Further, that translated to savings to the consumer, where as most PS1 titles were $50 or $40 for many of SCEA's titles, N64 titles started typically at $50 mostly Nintendo titles, and $60-$80 for third party titles. The $80 was more from vendors who gouged people at launch year (I know, I worked at one).

It didn't hurt Sony that a lot of their titles were more adult oriented, Gran Turismo, Resident Evil, MGS, etc., as well, since Nintendo was previously reluctant to enter that fray (and still pretty much is), and that appeal probably helped attract a lot of gamers who were looking for something a little more mature than Nintendo's candy coated offerings (not that I'm knocking them), after graduating from the NES/SNES/GENESIS.

[prophetik music]

you're right - i read the article wrong. my bad. you're also right in that i mistook texture memory with graphics memory =)