liquid wind Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 I don't want nintendo to try to make mature, narrative driven games where people die etc because when they do that other m happens. (yes team ninja...sakamoto was still overseeing the story) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Strader Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 From what I've heard Other M was just a bad game. I don't think it's reasonable to say it's bad because it had more mature plot elements. Nintendo should branch out into making more mature or substantial content, if nothing else it'd be a learning experience and might produce some good games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crowbar Man Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 (edited) I don't think a mature adult would want to watch entertainment SOLELY with "adult" themes. That is like only wanting to watch rated R movies. How "adult" is it to imply anything less than R "isn't for adults"? Same there here. Implying anything less than M "isn't for adults". Especially the part implying that T rated games have no plot, no dialog, mature themes, people that even die, etc. Its like ignoring the ENTIRE RPG genre, the PW series you posted, etc. That is ridiculous If you want to limit yourself to M games, whatever I guess? I don't find that very mature myself but whatever floats your boat. I've played most of those games on the list, I can't say I would of rather played ONLY those than EVERY SINGLE GAME OTHER GAME EVER CREATED because "they aren't M". And those games aren't good because they are rated M either, they are just good games. If some of the content was cut and the rating lowered to T, they'd still be fantastic games. I'll stick with playing everything under the sun that is good, you can stick with your M rated stuff if you want. Seems like a problem to me though focusing on an ESRB rating instead of enjoying a game. And far from "mature" Edited July 23, 2013 by Crowbar Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brushfire Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 (edited) I admit I'm a big Nintendo fan. I don't think they're better than the other two bigwigs. I just see them as a company that is very important to gaming, which I am passionate about, and want them to succeed. I don't troll the Xbone and PS4 threads, so when someone like you trolls this thread, I feel that it's my duty to defend the subject matter, aka Nintendo's console. You so obviously do think that they are better than the other two. Don't kid a kidder. You're probably thinking that every single console in my room in a Nintendo console, and that's not true. I've been revisiting Dead or Alive 4 and Ninja Gaiden 2 on my 360 and I've also been very deep in the Neo-Geo fighting games of yore. Nintendo is very important to gaming, just like Sony and Microsoft. Yes, I want Nintendo to claim a piece of the pie, and I want them to be successful, and I want to see their new console be successful. Nintendo fans have had to deal with losing a lot of 3rd party support, so to me, it's nice to see the haters get a taste of their own medicine. Not necessarily a random Sony fan. One of my closest friends is a hardcore Sony fan who will have the PS4 day one. I have no problem with that. So, if Nintendo acquires Atlus, and throws a "bit of salt" around, and a troll like yourself gets butt-hurt about it, then I'm all for it. As for my Sony buddy, he can bring his PS4 over, we can play PS4 games. We can play the next Persona on Wii U. Or not, because really, it's just speculation. Brandon Strader criticizes Nintendo for the right reasons - he thinks they are making bad decisions. He has the right to express his viewpoint. He's genuinely pissed off at Nintendo and the decisions they have made. And I'm cool with that. You on the other hand, can kinda be a turd sometimes. But if that's what floats your boat, then go ahead. You're not getting to me. I enjoy trolling your trollness. Have a lovely, peaceful sleep. I am not butthurt if Big N picks up Atlus, I am worried about the quality of games that Atlus will produce if such a thing where to occur. Big N has made several bad decisions since they were not able to replicate the rampant success that the Wii had with it's gimmick. I made this point a billion years ago, so I don't dwell on it anymore. Also, name calling is a turdy thing to do. Edited July 23, 2013 by Brushfire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerrax Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 All 3 companies are tossing around a bunch of franchise/first-party BS right now and I couldn't care less. I don't plan on buying WiiU, Xbox One, or PS4 as of now. None of these systems has shown me anything to give a damn about. Every system for me has had a few games that I really want to play. PS2 had Devil May Cry and Zone of the Enders, Xbox had Halo and Morrowind, 360 had Oblivion. But the new generation has nothing, and since the Wii U has been out much longer I expected them to have something substantial by now. But life is full of disappointments I guess. I'm gonna go play some more FTL and Monaco. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malaki-LEGEND.sys Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 I don't really get how Nintendo would have a negative influence on Atlus. They sure didn't stop Xenoblade from being hailed as one of the better JRPGs of the previous generation. Also hey that Rayman Legends game looks to finally be out of the oven(or at least the 360 version that held every other one up finally is!), and you should probably pick it up early September when it finally releases! I'm now going through Origins myself, and I have to say it's the most fun I've had in a 2D platformer since... Well probably Super Mario World 2! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Legendary Zoltan Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 If you are a Nintendo fan, you should be angry at them right now because of this nonsense they pulled with Earthbound. They set their own pricing rules and then broke those rules just because they know they can squeeze an extra buck out of all the Earthbound fans. It's terrible business and just a shitty thing to do to people who are loyal to your brand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malaki-LEGEND.sys Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Dude. It's 10 dollars. 10 dollars. You're getting Earthbound for 10 dollars. You're getting what many consider to be one of the greatest things to come out of Nintendo, FINALLY re-released at who-knows-what expense, for 10 money dollars that you'd otherwise probably use on 2 bad-for-you Big Macs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleck Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 From what I've heard Other M was just a bad game. I don't think it's reasonable to say it's bad because it had more mature plot elements. the "mature plot elements" necessitated a large cast of supporting characters as well as hours worth of cutscenes in a game that was part of a series that was famous for having no or close to not cutscenes and was all about exploring strange new places alone the thing is that other m is, gameplay-wise, actually pretty solid - the "mature plot elements" are literally the only reason everybody hates that game If you don't think adults want games with adult themes...well...I don't know what to tell you. I don't think that actual adults need entertainment with arbitrarily-defined "mature" themes to make themselves actually feel like adults this whole discussion is moronic and you should all feel terrible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerrax Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 (edited) I bought EarthBound with the guide in a giant box for $6 in 1998. Why is $10 with no box, no manual, no guide, and no cartridge a good deal? Might as well just get a ROM for free. This is the same shit Disney pulls with that "Vault Disney" crap. Edited July 23, 2013 by Cerrax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Legendary Zoltan Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 It doesn't matter if it's $10. I agree that Earthbound is worth much more than $10. I would say it's worth we'll over $30. Will you be mad if it is priced at $30? It doesn't matter HOW MUCH they're screwing us. Punishing people for being a fan of Earthbound is not OK. This is an act of pure greed. The good will of the consumers is worth more than they are going to make with that extra dollar. http://www.nintendo.com/wiiu/downloads/virtual-console Why did they bother to make this if they don't even value it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleck Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 the virtual console has always functioned in such a way that high profile releases that involved more technological and/or legal work than usual would cost slightly more money given the wealth of things in earthbound that could get nintendo sued I'm surprised that it was released at all let alone at - goodness gracious - an extra dollar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Damned Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 (edited) I bought EarthBound with the guide in a giant box for $6 in 1998. Why is $10 with no box, no manual, no guide, and no cartridge a good deal? Might as well just get a ROM for free. This is the same shit Disney pulls with that "Vault Disney" crap. You bought a USED game a few years after it was released for $6. Since then, the number of cartridges for sale has dropped to the point of impossible to find, and what few are out there, they are collectors items and fetch a price accordingly. So bitching about how much you paid for a USED GAME 15 YEARS AGO is fucking stupid. And in case anyone is wondering, I'm not even a fan of Earthbound. Shock and dismay, whatever. The point is, people finally get a rerelease and they bitch about the pricing, despite the fact they probably also spent more than that on old Steam games last week. Edited July 23, 2013 by The Damned Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malaki-LEGEND.sys Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Also I just watched Mulan last night. Does it have adult undertones? Sure, and in spades. But that doesn't make a puppy leading a pack of feral chickens through a farm any more mature and any less enjoyable because of said lack of maturity, and I'm a 27-year-old dude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Strader Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 the "mature plot elements" necessitated a large cast of supporting characters as well as hours worth of cutscenes in a game that was part of a series that was famous for having no or close to not cutscenes and was all about exploring strange new places alone Like I said, bad game. Can't blame any "mature plot elements" for bad game design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malaki-LEGEND.sys Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Like I said, bad game. Can't blame any "mature plot elements" for bad game design. Actually as Bleck pointed out, the biggest complaint with the game by many WAS in fact the god awful execution of a plot with "mature themes" in a game that was otherwise pretty fun. I think most of the people who had qualms with the gameplay were just diehard fans of the "traditional" style of Metroid and wanted a return to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleck Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Like I said, bad game. Can't blame any "mature plot elements" for bad game design. so do you have any actual reasons to think it's a bad game or is this our daily example of you being an idiot in this thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkeSword Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 I really am not a fan of all the name-calling and general bitchiness going on in this thread. Everyone needs to step back and take a minute. Let's try to keep the discussion civil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleck Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 "discussion" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramaniscence Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 I don't think a mature adult would want to watch entertainment SOLELY with "adult" themes. That is like only wanting to watch rated R movies. Nobody said anything about solely, but they definitely gravitate to it. Because picking flowers, and solving problems with your friends might speak to an adult on a basic level, dealing with love, loss, sex, mortally, etc are things that we relate to on an adult level. Another great list of examples is: Game of Thrones, Walking Dead, Breaking Bad, Desperate Housewives, Sex in the City, It's Always Sunny, How I Met Your Mother, Community, Arrested Development... And that's not to say that things created to be acceptable for children don't also incorporate subtle mature/adult situations to make them desirable by general audiences (Spongebob, Adventure Time). How is it unreasonable to say that adults gravitate toward entertainment that they can relate to on an adult level? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleck Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 whether or not it's reasonable has to do with what particular mode of entertainment we're talking about; because in this case we're talking about video games, the primary situations/themes that the game attempts to deal with are largely irrelevant to the defining portion of the game, i.e for any of the games that you've mentioned, the fact that they deal with "mature themes" isn't actually by and large what makes any of those games good however in contrast there's at least one example brought up already in this thread (by me) of a game that is in itself made less good because of the presense of "mature themes" basically the point here is that having "mature themes" in a video game is either going to a) have virtually no meaningful impact on the game itself or is going to actually make it worse basically what this boils down to is whether or not you want video games to be TV shows where you occasionally push a button or whether or not you want video games to actually be video games, a medium defined by their interactivity and not their ability to tell a compelling and meaningful story (which by the way has only happened maybe three times in the entire history of video games) note: a lot of the games that rama has mentioned aren't necessarily bad games in my opinion but the ones that are good are always good because of the gameplay not because of the rating on the box Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramaniscence Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 I'll agree that the miss use of mature things can reduce the overall quality, however you can't discount the adult themes in the storyline of these games. Games like Assassin's Creed, Max Payne, Red Dead Redemption couldn't exist at all without having an M rating. Games like Mass Effect and Catherine perhaps could, but the experience would be cheapened without it. I don't think we should arbitrarily kick up the blood and violence as an excuse to make games more mature, but I don't think we should avoid the opportunity to add blood, death, sex, etc, tastefully and respectfully to add a mature level of depth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirby Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 so long ago i was told that there are two topics that are guaranteed to start an argument religion and politics it looks like there's a third topic that can be added to that list now nintendo (not saying there's an argument going on now, but it sure looked like one before) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkeSword Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 basically the point here is that having "mature themes" in a video game is either going to a) have virtually no meaningful impact on the game itself or is going to actually make it worse Or c) going to make the experience much better. Mass Effect 2 for example really benefits because there are many times where you play through conversations about ethical dilemmas. Games with a strong, integrated story element can become incredibly engaging pieces of entertainment because we, as gamers, get really dig into the ideas and themes presented to us. One of my favorite gaming moments is arguing with Mordin Solus about the ethics of the Genophage. This isn't a click-through conversation either; it's a role-playing opportunity where the player is allowed to pick and choose his or her arguments. More to the point, Atlus's Persona 4 also deals with a lot of mature themes; the deaths of loved ones, sexual and gender identity, issues relating to relationships and self-confidence/self-worth; the game is amazing and engaging for dealing with all these things. Nintendo could benefit from picking up Atlus; having Atlus's games on Wii U could really bring variety to the console's library. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerrax Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 (edited) Or c) going to make the experience much better. This. "The Pitt" DLC for Fallout 3 centers around finding a cure for the rampant mutations occurring in the city. The society has become one of severe class warfare, with the proletariat basically becoming slaves while the bourgeoisie struggle to keep everyone alive and find a cure. Amidst this arrangement, an uprising begins. When the cure turns out to be an antibody in the genes of the "mayor's" newborn daughter, the player must choose to either help the uprising kidnap the baby, or put down the uprising to continue work on the cure. Each choice has severe consequences, consequences that require a full, mature understanding of human nature. And in the end, neither choice is bloodless. Without a mature perspective, this is barely different than choosing Bulbasaur or Charmander, but within a mature context, this choice becomes very heavy and meaningful. Fallout's gameplay has always been rife with these moral conundrums, and they are not removed from the gameplay like a cutscene, they are the game itself. Edited July 23, 2013 by Cerrax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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