League of Legends: I finally updated the player list in the OP!

[Bleck]

why is lee sin still so ridiculous

[eternal Zero]

The man's blind. They had to give him -something- to compensate.

But seriously I thought he'd be a lot less threatening after the change/nerf to Wriggle's Lantern. This was not the case.

[zircon]

OCR tier list anyone? For people playing at our level?

[Tensei]

I haven't even tried out all champions yet, so I don't know. Stuff like Annie is definitely up there though.

Edited July 18, 2011 by Tensei

[prophetik music]

i'm assuming a tier list is something from HoN? i'm not familiar with the term.

[Tensei]

No, it's something that can be done with almost any competitive game. Basically you divide champions into different tiers depending on how viable they are.

Like, Evelynn and Kayle would be somewhere low, but Annie and Ashe would be pretty high up.

[Sir_NutS]

No, it's something that can be done with almost any competitive game. Basically you divide champions into different tiers depending on how viable they are.

Like, Evelynn and Kayle would be somewhere low, but Annie and Ashe would be pretty high up.

Actually, Kayle after the buffs is a pretty good champ now. Plus he has a pretty strong on-cast immunity.

[Tensei]

Yeah but she's also a melee support without any hard CC so there are plenty of better alternatives.

[Bleck]

the thing that makes a tier list difficult for this game is you have to look at numbers for a champ but you also have to look at how you're supposed to play them and how difficult it is

there are plenty of casters who have higher damage output than annie but annie still beats them out because you can literally mash the keypad and win

[zircon]

Here are my thoughts on it. Again, based on our level of play.

S-tier: Alistair, Annie, Mal'zahar, Ashe, Akali, Cho'gath, Soraka, Gangplank, Shen, Janna, Amumu, Warwick

A-tier: Malphite, Karthus, Kog'Maw, Taric, Renekton, Sona, Zilean, Blitzcrank, Veigar, Trystana, Morgana, Gragas, Twisted Fate, Lux

B-tier: Sivir, Sion, Tryndamere, Corki, Jax, Poppy, Ryze, Fiddlesticks, Miss Fortune, Nunu, Heimerdinger, Vladimir, Singed, Teemo

C-tier: Evelynn, Dr. Mundo, Udyr, Nasus, Master Yi, Twitch, Rammus, Kassadin

Not ranked (I haven't played them, or against them enough) - Anivia, Brand, Cassiopeia, Galio, Garen, Irelia, Jarvan IV, Karma, Katarina, Kayle, Kennen, LeBlanc, Lee Sin, Leona, Maokai, Mordekaiser, Nidalee, Nocturne, Olaf, Orianna, Pantheon, Rumble, Shaco, Swain, Trundle, Urgot, Vayne, Xin Zhao, Yorick

[BardicKnowledge]

Yeah but she's also a melee support without any hard CC so there are plenty of better alternatives.

Kayle is ranged at least 3/4 of the time -- she just toggles on her E before she strikes. No hard CC is fair (she's got one slow), but her ult is completely game changing when used well.

[relyanCe]

in all honesty, a tier system really doesn't work with this game

[Bleck]

C-tier: Master Yi, Rammus, Kassadin

this is a joke right

[Tensei]

Yeah I don't really agree with any of those. Shen should be a lot lower than Rammus because he has shit for DPS, and Corki is one of the best ranged AD carries.

[Sir_NutS]

Here are my thoughts on it. Again, based on our level of play.

S-tier: Alistair, Annie, Mal'zahar, Ashe, Akali, Cho'gath, Soraka, Gangplank, Shen, Janna, Amumu, Warwick

A-tier: Malphite, Karthus, Kog'Maw, Taric, Renekton, Sona, Zilean, Blitzcrank, Veigar, Trystana, Morgana, Gragas, Twisted Fate, Lux

B-tier: Sivir, Sion, Tryndamere, Corki, Jax, Poppy, Ryze, Fiddlesticks, Miss Fortune, Nunu, Heimerdinger, Vladimir, Singed, Teemo

C-tier: Evelynn, Dr. Mundo, Udyr, Nasus, Master Yi, Twitch, Rammus, Kassadin

Not ranked (I haven't played them, or against them enough) - Anivia, Brand, Cassiopeia, Galio, Garen, Irelia, Jarvan IV, Karma, Katarina, Kayle, Kennen, LeBlanc, Lee Sin, Leona, Maokai, Mordekaiser, Nidalee, Nocturne, Olaf, Orianna, Pantheon, Rumble, Shaco, Swain, Trundle, Urgot, Vayne, Xin Zhao, Yorick

Pretty accurate for the most part but here are some of my opinions:

-Twisted Fate really belongs in the S-List at this moment.

-Blitz should go one tier below

-Teemo should be in the A-List BECAUSE HES TOO CUTE.

-Brand definitively on the A-list.

-Cass is a hard one to define because her Ulti is a big game changer but depends on too many variables to be puled off right. She can be in the A or B list imo.

-Karma is definitely bottom of the barrel at this point. Her utility is almost nil in team fights unless she was carried HARD early, which is even harder to pull off. I like playing her a lot but just like sivir she doesn't contribute much in the practical sense.

-As I said before, Kayle belongs in a high tier, maybe in the A-List. She has trouble early game because she has to melee to farm, but mid to late game she never has to melee at all. She can dish out decent damage, more than most support classes (After guinsoo's she is a beast), she can slow, she can heal and she has a game-changing ulti.

-Nidalee and Oriana Belong in high tiers as well. Played carefully these two can change the game. Oriana's ulti in particular is more disrupting and easier to use than janna's.

-Rumble zomg OP. S-List.

-Yorick is still horrible and useless (He's kinda fun tho).

EDIT: As tensei pointed out, Shen also belongs much lower and Rammus goes straight to the S-List imo. Corki is S to A Material as well.

But really a tier list with this game will never be correct because some champions work better with certain setups and are useless against some other setups. Teemo for example excels or sucks depending on the team he's up against.

Edited July 18, 2011 by Sir_NutS

[Clefairy]

But really a tier list with this game will never be correct because some champions work better with certain setups and are useless against some other setups. Teemo for example excels or sucks depending on the team he's up against.

And even at that, what about champions with wildly different item paths? Do you evaluate each build seperately? Take the average? It's tremendously difficult to strain all the data and variables into "Champ A is better than Champ B at Task Y because Z." Not to mention, on a less explicitly friendly forum, it would just devolve into people bickering over who said what about whose main/favourites.

[Skyline Drop]

In my experience with fighting games, at least, tier lists are generally organized by the number of favorable match-ups against other characters that they have. Characters with more favorable match-ups are higher tiers. A list for this could be organized in a similar principle based on the number of teams they could conceivably fit into based on their general role. It would be really messy, but I think it could be done. I'm not sure how much I like how Elementz is doing it (i.e. more or less by himself), but from what I've seen of top level play, it's mostly accurate.

[The Derrit]

And even at that, what about champions with wildly different item paths? Do you evaluate each build seperately? Take the average? It's tremendously difficult to strain all the data and variables into "Champ A is better than Champ B at Task Y because Z." Not to mention, on a less explicitly friendly forum, it would just devolve into people bickering over who said what about whose main/favourites.

the way that it works in general is the most effective a character can be at any given matchup as an absolute, not finding the absolute setup for each character and then basing them against each other. so if one character would have one build path against one hero but another that works better against another those two builds would be applied in the 'best situation matchup' that a tier list would provide.

[Clefairy]

the way that it works in general is the most effective a character can be at any given matchup as an absolute, not finding the absolute setup for each character and then basing them against each other. so if one character would have one build path against one hero but another that works better against another those two builds would be applied in the 'best situation matchup' that a tier list would provide.

That's just theorycrafting, though. Like I said, it's difficult to process all the data; difficult, but not impossible, because it's just data. Human error, dropped connections, mind games in allchat, team drama... There's a wealth of metatextual stuff that affects the game beyond the raw numbers.

At best, a tier list is like a commander's battle plan. And a guy much smarter than me once said, "No battle plan survives contact with the enemy." So it all smacks of doing calculus for fun.

If that's your thing, well, more power to you. But I don't see the appeal.

[The Derrit]

That's just theorycrafting, though. Like I said, it's difficult to process all the data; difficult, but not impossible, because it's just data. Human error, dropped connections, mind games in allchat, team drama... There's a wealth of metatextual stuff that affects the game beyond the raw numbers.

At best, a tier list is like a commander's battle plan. And a guy much smarter than me once said, "No battle plan survives contact with the enemy." So it all smacks of doing calculus for fun.

If that's your thing, well, more power to you. But I don't see the appeal.

i mean that's how its always been smash bros. melee has a pretty defined tier list and a guy playing peach (high ish tier) and young link (mid low tier) just won the largest international tournament of the year, new metagames always emerge in games with good competitive depth

but i like your analogy

[kitty]

I hate this metagame bs because it doesn't matter for 90% of the player base.

[prophetik music]

i'd rank urgot with the A tier, as he's the best anti-carry in the game simply because he can kill just about anyone at a tower with his ult and a few well-aimed skillshots. he's also got continuous damage reduction on his target, can slow for 20% as innate with his shield, and has awesome AP by mid and late game. he's so good in so many different situations that if he wasn't such a huge hitbox for skillshots he'd be S-tier in my book.

i'd put tristana in the S tier before sololka. i prefer sona or janna any day of the week over soraka as a support character (i'm speaking as the one on the receiving end of their spells). soraka's heals are awesome, but if she gets focused she's meat almost instantl, whereas janna and sona can both hold their own for a bit without getting hosed instantly. tristana's up there as one of the best late-game DPS characters available and incredible at pushing towers because of her ridiculous attack speed.

[Tensei]

Sona goes down in a few hits too, that's really not an advantage she has over Soraka. The main difference is that Sona has AoE CC with her ult, but Soraka outheals her by so much that it's not even funny.

Soraka has a massive 1.3 AP growth on her ult which means that if you get a few AP items you can heal your entire team for like ~800 HP which is pretty much gamebreaking. I believe she provides superior lane sustainability as well because her third skill replenishes mana too, and not just HP.

You shouldn't be in the front in teamfights as any of those champions anyway, as you're probably the priority target, so you position yourself to make the enemies have to go through your entire team first before they reach you.

I gotta reiterate my love for Nocturne by the way. He's basically Sandwraith (Similar first skill and ult) but way way more focused around ganking than carrying.

Edited July 19, 2011 by Tensei

[Tensei]

http://www.leagueoflegends.com/news/new-free-champion-rotation-week-54

Free Champions for this week. Morde es #1 and Rumble in every game are going to be the end of me.

[Sir_NutS]

i'd put tristana in the S tier before sololka. i prefer sona or janna any day of the week over soraka as a support character (i'm speaking as the one on the receiving end of their spells). soraka's heals are awesome, but if she gets focused she's meat almost instantl, whereas janna and sona can both hold their own for a bit without getting hosed instantly. tristana's up there as one of the best late-game DPS characters available and incredible at pushing towers because of her ridiculous attack speed.

There are only a handful of champions that can survive being focused, and every support character in this game is squishy as hell and made to be that way. That said, unless you make a horrible mistake there's no way that you can get focused as Sona, Soraka, Janna, Lux, or Zil in a teamfight. These characters are always the last to die because you are always hanging down in the back and most champions don't have a quick way to reach you from the front lines. I always manage to build Mejals with all these characters even if my team isn't doing very well, because you will rarely die.

I'd rank soraka over Janna for the sole reason that 2 of Janna's skills are basically skill shots (her ulti requires correct positioning to distrupt the other team) and skill shots can miss no matter how good you are. On the other hand soraka's skills are all on-cast, and she has a silence that can interrupt many important ultis. She's a better defensive support than sona in lane phase as well, coupled with a mana user.

That said I prefer to play more as Sona, Janna or Lux because their skill shots make them more fun to play.