League of Legends: I finally updated the player list in the OP!

[eternal Zero]

Nah I just roll with a different crew more often than not cause you all tend to get needlessly emotional when you feed/lose and I really prefer to be more chill about this game.

Though I have played with Bardic decently regularly and I show off some new tech or just have fun. Like last time there was an abundant use of my new GG button.

[Tensei]

Really? I've been playing this game again recently and I find myself completely indifferent about the outcomes. It's still fun to harass people about not buying you a courier though.

[zircon]

I usually play a few matches a day, mostly solo or duo queue ranked with some normals mixed in if friends are on. Right now I'm working on perfecting my mechanics as ranged AD. I'm very disappointed if I get less than 70cs in 10 minutes, and shoot to have the best possible positioning in teamfights. Also have been doing a lot of research into ideal rune/mastery setups.

[eternal Zero]

Well next time I invite you, Zircon, actually be there and accept! I've been doing a lot of AD myself recently too (in all three lanes to good success) and I can share what I've learned and what really works.

[The Derrit]

Nah I just roll with a different crew more often than not cause you all tend to get needlessly emotional when you feed/lose and I really prefer to be more chill about this game.

Though I have played with Bardic decently regularly and I show off some new tech or just have fun. Like last time there was an abundant use of my new GG button.

i usually had a blast when people played as a team but i agree that did happen

i don't rage i just get sad when people trashtalk after making critical errors

[prophetik music]

i lolled a bit too derrit.

try me again sometime zero, i think you'd be surprised. i more get frustrated with blatant idiocy (like the four-AP carry team) or software failures than with being outplayed. the worst that can happen is i do bad, which doesn't happen near as often anymore =)

[Yami]

Now my colleagues have done it, they converted me, I'm now a LoL gamer as well.

Summoner Name: YamiNoKeshin

[The Derrit]

so the story of my last two weeks in this game

about 2 weeks ago now i had gone like 8-1 at around 1200 elo, was steadily rising. and then the game was like oh HELL NO and sent me on a 2-24 losing streak. during this losing streak i went negative 5 times. significant records include 23/4 as xerath, 10/3 as hecarim, and 9/5 as volibear, all occurring during crushing losses. i dropped all the way to 775 elo.

nearly EVERY GAME someone would either go afk, go 0/3-6 before 8 minutes, or blatantly feed. there were three close games that could have gone either way.

then this weekend i had a lot of spare time and the game decided it liked me again so i went on a 11-1 winning streak.

this has happened too many times for it to be coincidental. i never go one for one, or even two for one, it's always, always long streaks of wins and losses. even in winning it's kind of silly when you know you won because the other team had an ashe who would run under your towers and dance

in other news, malzahar is awesome and pretty impossible to lose lane with

[PrototypeRaptor]

I play occasionally as this is one of the few games that runs on my crap-top... still trying to come to grips with all the strategies, terms, etc... this game just seems needlessly complicated.

I do enjoy playing as veigar and nuking junglers, especially that master yi fellow

tag is PrototypeRaptor2

[relyanCe]

in other news, malzahar is awesome and pretty impossible to lose lane with

[Tensei]

How dare you break our precious metagame, we worked very hard on that.

[zircon]

Haha, I heard about that. Definitely on the border but I can understand if he was repeatedly doing stupid builds/picks that were ineffective. I doubt he would have been reported if he did well, or if he talked with his team first. I've done weird lane setups in ranked before but always talk about it with my team during champ select, and it works out (eg. double ranged AD mid/bot).

[Nabeel Ansari]

Shouldn't you be playing Normal matches if you want to experiment? I don't understand why you would do it in Ranked.

It's... well, ranked.

[Tensei]

For all you know he wasn´t experimenting but actually using uncommon builds effectively, but I digress, he probably didn´t get reported for no reason.

The issue I have is that it´s all metagame-related. The 'rules' for building a champ aren't something that's hardcoded into the game but something that emerged from the community itself. If they're really going to make it bannable to use builds that aren't commonly accepted, they might as well disable the items they deem inappropriate in ranked.

[Nabeel Ansari]

I'm sure if he used them effectively, people wouldn't have reported him for it.

They didn't suspend for unusual builds, they suspended for pissing off his team.

refusing to listen and cooperate with your team

It states right at the end they have no problem with experimenting, but you should only do it with consent of your team. That's fair, imo. Nothing's more annoying than a guy who's fooling around and dragging the team down. Edited May 29, 2012 by Neblix

[ArmadonRK]

Ranked matchmaking doesn't work, period. I've played a fair amount of League, it's a fun, well designed game, but the developer philosophy behind it is flawed. Moderating outright cheating is necessary, and fixing exploits and rebalancing the game as you see fit is fair, but penalizing players for behavior that you have coded in, have no intention of fixing on your end and therefore, strictly speaking, allow? Bull****.

Competitive gaming needs to be left in the hands of the players and the leagues and out of the hands of the developers. The blurring of those lines is not good for the development of the game and the growth of the community.

If you really want to win, want to play competitively and in a serious environment, then you find players who want to do the same and play with them. Any matchmaking system, essentially random play, should be assumed to be for casual play, and expecting anything else from it is an idiotic notion. Regulating it as such can only backfire.

I really enjoyed LoL when I played it a lot earlier this year, and late last year, but the attitude of other players in unranked matches when I was experimenting, improving, and trying to have fun was at times, but not always, appalling. If that was unranked play, I can't imagine what it's like in ranked play.

Anyway, I think developer moderation of play and the notion of ranked matchmaking are two of the dumbest things to appear in online gaming recently, and I suspect they'll die out as soon as people realize that they are ineffective and inefficient.

So endeth the rant.

[zircon]

Actually, ranked and competitive play is only getting much, much more popular... so I don't think that prediction is going to come true. As for penalizing players for behavior you've coded in, as Riot has said many times, the tribunal is to deal with people who make the game not fun for their teammates. If someone gets reported over and over for refusing to communicate, it's a safe bet that they're mostly just trolling and not taking the game seriously. Also, only a very small percentage of players get punished by the tribunal. It takes a LOT to get to that point.

[Nabeel Ansari]

Ranked matchmaking doesn't work, period. I've played a fair amount of League, it's a fun, well designed game, but the developer philosophy behind it is flawed. Moderating outright cheating is necessary, and fixing exploits and rebalancing the game as you see fit is fair, but penalizing players for behavior that you have coded in, have no intention of fixing on your end and therefore, strictly speaking, allow? Bull****.

Competitive gaming needs to be left in the hands of the players and the leagues and out of the hands of the developers. The blurring of those lines is not good for the development of the game and the growth of the community.

If you really want to win, want to play competitively and in a serious environment, then you find players who want to do the same and play with them. Any matchmaking system, essentially random play, should be assumed to be for casual play, and expecting anything else from it is an idiotic notion. Regulating it as such can only backfire.

I really enjoyed LoL when I played it a lot earlier this year, and late last year, but the attitude of other players in unranked matches when I was experimenting, improving, and trying to have fun was at times, but not always, appalling. If that was unranked play, I can't imagine what it's like in ranked play.

Anyway, I think developer moderation of play and the notion of ranked matchmaking are two of the dumbest things to appear in online gaming recently, and I suspect they'll die out as soon as people realize that they are ineffective and inefficient.

So endeth the rant.

You know tribunal cases are judged by players, right? It's not developer enforcing rules that they didn't code in. It's players going "hey, you're being a dick".

What's wrong with having a separate game mode for people who are serious about upping their skill? Do you know how annoying it is when someone messes around because "hey, it's just a game"? You can say "hey, it's just a game" for anything. Like Football.

If you really want to experiment and not make anyone mad, you shouldn't be doing randomized PvP in the first place. Make some friends on LoL and ask them to be on your team because you wanna try something new.

Or play a bot game and see how far your experiment can take you when you're fed.

Any matchmaking system, essentially random play, should be assumed to be for playing with people who are not as light-hearted as you, and expecting anything else from it is an idiotic notion.

Fixed.

I don't think you realize how big competitive gaming is.

Edited May 30, 2012 by Neblix

[eternal Zero]

I do stupid things all the time in League both in ranked and unranked. I let my team know and lead off chat with "If I don't do well you can rage at me all you want and report me." I get away with it. It's totally subjective. Some people can get away with it, sure, but the philosophy of ranked specifically is: PLAY TO WIN. That includes not taking stupid risks if they won't pay off. So unfortunately no going against the meta-game grain in ranked unless you've got the skills to back it.

Btw the statistics are that about 50% of cases that make it to the Tribunal are said to be guilty and warned. To even get to the Tribunal you need to be reported repeatedly for said actions. If you check the multiple tabs for each instance of them being reported last time I checked the average was about 8 games of really bad instances that actually got them reported and that's not including the games that they're kinda bad but not enough people ended up reporting them.

[ArmadonRK]

I don't think you realize how big competitive gaming is.

I know exactly how big competitive gaming has gotten. My brother is big into competitive Starcraft, and I myself have played competitively in everything from Counter-Strike to World of Warcraft to Team Fortress 2.

Actually, ranked and competitive play is only getting much, much more popular... so I don't think that prediction is going to come true.

I stand by my statement: competitive matchmaking is an idiotic notion. Maybe I'm wrong about it dying out, but I still don't think it's good for the community or the game. (I compare it to paid DLC in that way. Though it's gaining popularity, I believe it's detrimental to the community and industry.)

If you really want to experiment and not make anyone mad, you shouldn't be doing randomized PvP in the first place. Make some friends on LoL and ask them to be on your team because you wanna try something new.

That's totally backwards thinking. Randomized play is casual, period. When I want to play competitively, I find a group of likeminded people and play a competitive game, and I don't worry about griefing, or fooling around, or anything else. But this is the internet, and any matchmaking system is going to put you with people who are not contributing to competitive play. Ranked matchmaking is far less effective than the simple act of finding like-minded players who want to enjoy some competition in the game, such is my experience from years of light competitive gaming.

Matchmaking is useful for casual play, but I find it works less often than not for anything competitive.

Coding in a ranking system, with leaderboards and stats, is great. Those are things I think Riot has done well. But leave matchmaking out of it. I don't think matchmaking, or a tribunal system, work in the scope of an online game like LoL.

Now, I don't know much about the Tribunal system works within LoL, but I know the idea of it rubs me the wrong way. And I don't have anything against competitive play or rankings, but these things don't mix with matchmaking. These things don't work in tandem. They are useful tools separately, or in a properly moderated arena. I don't believe that the developer-side of LoL is that arena. And by that I mean, Riot has created this ranked, matchmaking system regulated by the Tribunals. Whether or not the Tribunals are in the hands of the players is irrelevant, since the system as a whole is determined and regulated by Riot. Changing the system requires that change to come from Riot. How can that work?

Competitive gaming has always been self-regulating in the past, and I believe that moving away from that is taking steps backward. (To compare, I have similar criticisms of Starcraft II. More, even.)

[Nabeel Ansari]

I've played a fair bit of matchmade games in WoW, SC2, and LoL too. I've thoroughly enjoyed them.

So tell me more about how my personal enjoyment is detrimental to the community.

Also, I find it humorous you asserted that my opinion on gaming is backwards. I wanted to say the same thing about you, except I didn't.

This is the internet, where people aren't going to be as light-hearted as you all the time. You shouldn't be expecting everyone to watch you messing around like an idiot in the item shop. That's like going to an open party and trashing it.

So no, randomized play is not "casual, period."

You may have all of these criticisms about the system, but you're not realizing that these systems are widely accepted and are successful. Whether you think it should be casual or not is irrelevant, because the FACT is (in my experience) that's not what actually happens when you enter a random match.

There's absolutely no reason for you to go to all the players and say "you're all doing it wrong, you're too serious. You're doing match made games, you should be casual and carefree." Do you understand how ridiculous that is (saying something IS something because it SHOULD be)?

Also, the competitive gaming IS self-regulated. The Tribunal is proof. The Draft mode is proof.

Edited May 30, 2012 by Neblix

[ArmadonRK]

Also, I find it humorous you asserted that my opinion on gaming is backwards. I wanted to say the same thing about you, except I didn't.

When you fire up a typical game, not LoL or SC2, and hit the "Play Now" button, does it throw you into a competitive game with a team of focused players, or does it throw you on a random server with a hodge-podge of people who want different things from the game? When you want to play competitively in such a game, is there a button for competitive play, or do you have to find like-minded players and an arena for that competition?

Let's at least accept that casual play is the default state of play outside of LoL. That casual players outnumber competitive players in most games, and that, traditionally, competitive gaming has been the niche, and has required one to go looking for it.

So from that point of view, I find the design philosophy of LoL's ranked system to be flawed, since it wants the entire playerbase of its system to be competitive. That may be a noble intention, but I don't believe it works.

This is the internet, where people aren't going to be as light-hearted as you all the time.

In my experience, the number of people taking something seriously on the internet are vastly outnumbered by those who don't.

I find it funny that you're treating me like one of the people who doesn't take my gaming seriously. I absolutely do take it seriously, but it's irrational to expect the majority to bend to my desires as a serious player. I'm trying to advocate that point.

You shouldn't be expecting everyone to watch you messing around like an idiot in the item shop. That's like going to an open party and trashing it.

The example in question is far from "messing around in the item shop". And what in my posts has indicated that? I'm talking about someone playing legitimately, albeit unconventionally, and that this is considered improper just because it's not "the way things are done". Go back and re-read that post that instigated this and tell me if that lands under your umbrella of "going to an open party and trashing it".

"So no, randomized play is not "casual, period."

As I said, casual play is the default state of play, and competitive play is the niche. When you're outnumbered 10 to 1 as a competitive player, how can you rationally expect a matchmaking system to match you with 4 (9 if you care about the fairness of the teams) like-minded players? No, I stand by my statement. If you want to play with limitations and restrictions, you're going to have to take the effort to find people willing to play the same way. Matchmaking is not conducive to this.

You may have all of these criticisms about the system, but you're not realizing that these systems are widely accepted and are successful.

I don't know what you mean by "widely accepted and successful". They are accepted and they work in a handful of games. Definitely not widely, and their success is arguable. I don't believe that their acceptance or success is necessarily indicative of it being a good idea that will work in the long run.

So tell me more about how my personal enjoyment is detrimental to the community.

It's clear that you've misread and misinterpreted me somewhere along the line, since I never said or implied anything of the sort, so I'll leave it at that. Understand that I'm arguing against the use of matchmaking in competitive play, not competitive play itself, and that I disagree with developer integration of competitive tools, not the usefulness of those tools on their own merits.

Your enjoyment is not detrimental to the community. But I believe the way some developers, such as Riot, are handling the integration of competition into their games is.

I would ask that you re-read my posts with that in mind.

[Nabeel Ansari]

All Riot has done is give players a way to find other people who are competitive, through randomized match making. You're complaining they're doing too much, but they're not really doing anything. They just say "here's a random number matcher that finds people around your rank/level"

Also, you realize it's not TRUE randomized, right? Matchmaking pairs you with people of similar skill level, not just people off the LoL player list database. If you are a high ranking player, you'll be randomly assigned to other high ranking players. If you play competitively, it WILL get to that point, because the system works in a way where you'll elevate past people who don't take it seriously.

I don't believe that their acceptance or success is necessarily indicative of it being a good idea that will work in the long run.

You keep foreshadowing that this stuff is a bad idea and will fade away. But I only see it getting way more popular. Can you give concrete examples of how the system would fail in the future but not now?

Edited May 31, 2012 by Neblix

[zircon]

I stand by my statement: competitive matchmaking is an idiotic notion. Maybe I'm wrong about it dying out, but I still don't think it's good for the community or the game. (I compare it to paid DLC in that way. Though it's gaining popularity, I believe it's detrimental to the community and industry.)

What's your alternative?

[relyanCe]

What's your alternative?

i found getting DotA games in War3's now-archaic battle.net room system to be preferable for finding like-minded players and play environments to Riot's matchmaking scheme. It's too easy for the pvp.net client to read some numbers and pair a bunch of people with vastly different play philosophies and desires into a team that simply won't have any fun.

welp, that's one alternative