OCR01333 - Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time "Prayer"

[Dhsu]

Poorly spoken Japanese is a real pet peeve of mine, actually. But when I heard it I was surprised at how good it sounded from someone who had never been taught it formally before.

The key word being "spoken" Japanese. A lot of inflection/pitch qualities of a language are lost when singing it. Although, of course, there are still plenty of little nuances left over to make it a considerable accomplishment.

Anyways, for your information, Utada is not -really- a native Japanese speaker; she was educated mostly in the U.S. In fact, in an interview from a few years ago, she claims to write her lyrics in english first, and translates them to Japanese later.

Hm...interesting. I guess that would explain why "Simple and Clean" sounds so natural.

Get working on your next work

And be quick about it! Hyah!

[Garde]

I did not know that about Utada... I don't know what it is about pixietricks' voice and Utada's voice that is similar or how to describe it, I just know that when I listen to Prayer, it reminds me of Utada Hikaru. There's something about it, maybe the way some words are spoken, I dunno... I wish I were educated in the ways of voices to be able to describe it.

[Sporknight]

I enjoyed this mix alot. At first, it didnt seem like anything special, but if i need somethin to just chill to, this one is very relaxing and soothing.

Although its been a while since I've played OoT, this mix sounds like something that could be used in place of the original theme. Although that may annoy some people (it dosent deviate far enough from the original, etc), it dosen't stop me from liking it!

[blackmyst]

Personally, I don't care whether the language is correct. It sounds great, that's good enough for me.

You don't see the Japanese caring about anything other than the coolness factor of the English language do you? *cough*engrish.com*cough*

I must be honest and say that the "ooah's" sounded a bit strange at first, and I feel that maybe replacing only those (not the "hah's") with an instrument, would have been good. That said, after repeated listening they felt to be blending in with the rest of the music better.

[BIGBen]

I love this song VERY MUCH. I give big respect to pixietricks, cause it sounds very good and she has a cute voice. At least it is ZELDA. And thats GREAT!

ENGLISH FOR THE MOTHERLAND, MEIN FUHRER.

Are you damn crazy?! What do you mean with that crap? Mein Führer, that sounds like you are a nazi. That isn't funny, you fool.

[Souldier]

Wow I actually came to this site about the same time this song got posted!

As a largely untrained singer, I must say this song is great. I hardly noticed the "dissonence problems." That might be because I remembered them in the game or maybe I'm just stoopid.

My constructive criticism is, if you choose to do another song in a language that you aren't familiar with do some work on the accent. That was the only thing that I felt took away from the song. But you are already mentioned finding a local coach for next time.

<joins fanclub>Souldier</joins fanclub>

Eagerly awaiting your next song.

[majin_lyndon]

I thoroughly enjoy this mix. The Forest Temple is the one song I thought would NEVER get remixed. I don't know how you did it, but excellent work! I have no problems with the sound, dialect or "hoo hahs". To each their own I guess.

ENGLISH FOR THE MOTHERLAND, MEIN FUHRER.

I think he was mocking the fact that people had a problem with an English-speaking person singing in Japanese. Why the Hell not I say? Get working on your next song now! *please be NiGHTS*

[Raza Bloodfire]

The only reason I was being so adament about all the critism was because it was still being said AFTER she had explained herself.

But with all of this emotion now in the open, let's just leave it at that we all hope her next remix will be even better.

[Fashykins]

While I am often inclined to agree with this sort of thing, the Japanese was entirely justifiable in this case. This song was designed for and by Western ears (presumably the vast majority of the visitors to OCR are Western). When you listen to something in a foreign language, the mind does not attempt to realize each word and acertain its meaning. Thus, by using Japanese in this track, she made the voice layer something warm and ambient; this ambience would have been impossible with an English language track.

I didn't read the translated lyrics, nor do I care what they say. This song sounds great, and the remixer is pretty damned talented. Job well done.

I couldn't have said it better myself. I'm very happy that the lyrics were in a language that I don't understand. I can just more fully realize the soundscape. Also, I think the language sounds more beautiful. An African language might have made it even cooler, though. Still, I'm very impressed with the whole ensemble of atmosphere.

I don't remember the Minuet of Forest being in the original temple music, but then again, I was never a fan of any of the temple themes. So if that was added, kudos. It sounds very nice in the context of the ambience.

As a few others said, the dissonance around 3:30 was a little unnerving (Edit: I am referring not to the singer's pitch but rather the emphasis upon it at that point)... but on the second and third listen, I began to appreciate it more, and it grew on me. I think with time it fits and improves the total work.

As for the pronunciation of the Japanese lyrics - give me a break! Have you heard _professional_ Japanese music in English? It's a joke! A good example is "403 - Southern Cross" - an awesome song, but the lyrics are TERRIBLY pronounced. I didn't even realize it was English for about 20 listens.

Not knowing a lot about Japanese pronunciation, it doesn't really phase me much, and I prefer to just think of it as some non-understandable language with some sort of mystical meaning. When I do, I recognize it for the clear quality it has rather than someone trying to a sing in a non-native language. Anyways, judging by the style of the music, I think there should be plenty of phonetic leeway. Music so flowing should be able to have "stretches" in pronunciation. I know in English it sure does.

That oh eh stuff does get a bit irritating when you loop the mix though

I remember the original temple music being significantly annoying in that aspect (one of the reasons it's not one of my favorites), so I wouldn't necessarily blame this mix. It was faithful to the original there, and I support that. In fact, I think it may been a bit more tolerable (and even appreciable) in the redux.

... I wrote this as I was going forward through the thread, and I now see that basically everything I said has already been said (and answered). Meh.

ENGLISH FOR THE MOTHERLAND, MEIN FUHRER.

Are you damn crazy?! What do you mean with that crap? Mein Führer, that sounds like you are a nazi. That isn't funny, you fool.

ROFL. He was making fun of a certain attitude that many people shared. Most of us understood it, it's a pretty common little meme on the internet.

[djpretzel]

As for the pronunciation of the Japanese lyrics - give me a break! Have you heard _professional_ Japanese music in English? It's a joke! A good example is "403 - Southern Cross" - an awesome song, but the lyrics are TERRIBLY pronounced. I didn't even realize it was English for about 20 listens.

I think this is an excellent, excellent point that totally deflates most arguments/criticisms of the pronunciation. In almost every other J-Pop/anime closer and many video game pieces with vocals you hear attempts at English e.g. "Pick me up foxy night game" or "Never farring down" that - while still musical - don't exactly cut the elocution mustard. Those whining - and forgive me, because it comes off that way in most cases - about pronunciation here and elsewhere (Tom Cruise in Last Samurai, Uma in KB) seem to me to simply be flaunting their knowledge, however extensive or otherwise, of the language. However, the Japanese themselves clearly have no problem including poorly pronounced English in a good percentage of their own music, much of which the SAME people enjoy without a single bitch or moan. Hypocrisy? Methinks yes.

Furthermore, music has never been the place for exemplary pronunciation, even in singers' native languages, as words are often stretched to their syllabic limits in the interest of fulfilling a triplet or completing a musical phrase. And singing in a language other than one's own dates at least as far back as Mozart's time, where Italian and German were the only commonly accepted languages for operatic work. So get over yourselves and, if you wish to illustrate your keen knowledge of Japanese as learned in high school, college, or even via the more credible path of extended immersion, do so critiquing news broadcasts or Japanese-English translations, where such analysis makes more sense.

At any rate, I don't seek linguistic perfection in music. I seek musicality.

[the_mayor]

I never really cared for the original. I do however like this mix. The vocals sound great and the whole song works musically. This one's a definate must download.

[gregfrost]

I've always felt partial to the temple themes, and was sad none of them showed up on the official CD. This mix has excellent production and the singing is on. Using vocals for the intervals is especially clever.

As for the actual singing, Pixietricks has a pleasant voice which is well applied to this material. The Japanese pronunciation is good, and to me sounds comparable to that of several native Japanese singers. Bonus points for that.

Now this is impressive. I've been going through the Ocarina of Time soundtrack for a project I'm working on, and I always thought the Forest Temple music was cool, but pretty much unusable for a remix. Damn, was I wrong.

I've had a desire for some time to make something dark and smoky out of the Spirit Temple theme, but I haven't made any progress.

[Dark Monkey]

This is one of the best remixes posted in a while. It's very inspiring to play this while I'm writing.

[benevolensaurus]

It's good. I suppose I'm kind of ignorant here (monolingual, I swear sometimes it seems like I'm the only person like that in this whole state), but her voice didn't sound noticably different than any other Japanese singer's voice to me. For Japanese being a secondary language, that's pretty damn good.

Now, I can't think of a good way to say this without sounding kind of offensive, but oh well... I don't see why this piece is getting so much attention as compared to everything else that makes it on the site. I don't recall many other things getting up to 90 reviews so quickly, and there's lots of other good stuff getting submitted around here. Now, don't get me wrong, this is good... I don't know. I'm just not seeing anything particularly stellar about it. Maybe it's because my mind's grouping it with all the other Japanese music I've heard.

[Tiberiansam]

To start, all I can say is that's great stuff we have here! Not my favourite remix (sry, Mustin, Bladiator and McVaffe r still #1 in my heart! ) but good enought to say that anyone who think this remix is crap is a fool! And the voice! Oh my! How come you are not rich and famous with thoses talents of your? Celine Dion is and her voice isn't half as beautiful as yours! (I'm very serious by the way!) For the rest, I can't say anything cause I only know a few basic japanese words (such as baka, neko and (bi)-shoujo/shonnen). And for the musical part, I can't even less criticise since I can't even read music sheets! (Double ) But isn't music more about feelings than theorical?

__________________________________________

Komineko

[DarkFrog]

Great work! Definitely a great step in adding greater variety to what's available in this site's collection.

And about the eeh-oh parts, while my initial impression was a little bit negative, I grew attached to them as nostalgia took hold. The return of memories of feeling truely unsettled, after being lost in a dungeon, feeling alone in the cold early morning, were truely priceless.

Thank you. I'm looking forward to your future submissions!

-Austin Spafford

[mv]

Excellent track.

I really enjoyed the work on ambience and that recurrent percussion roll in the back is a great great touch. While the synth used for the back melody was a cheesy pick, it ended up being an adequate, lighter complement to the rest of the soundscape.

Good work with the bells and last but not least, your voice is lovely, and your approach in vocal effects was just AWESOME. While some parts were borderline (although I'm more of an "artistic preference" guy than a "anti-offtune fascist" when confronted to such), I honestly thought that the staccato vocal parts were great and fitting. I was just more or less bothered by one or two spots in the japanese-sung parts were there seemed to be unintentional deviations in your voice.

It is important to be wide opened about this, and while there are some annoying "offtune" newbie tries, the possibly "offtune" parts I found in this track were - as far as I'm concerned - interesting and adding to the surreal atmosphere the composer was going for. You techno/rock-only listeners should lend an ear or two to more ethnic or challenging ambient/experimental tracks. Ambience and oddity can be a most inspirational and interesting factor in music.

While this track is not exceptionally challenging, its execution and work on mood and different layers are quite novel and welcomed for the OCRemix audience. I'll be sure to listen to this quite a few times, I really enjoy this track's mood. Thumbs up!

[Monobrow]

While I am often inclined to agree with this sort of thing, the Japanese was entirely justifiable in this case. This song was designed for and by Western ears (presumably the vast majority of the visitors to OCR are Western). When you listen to something in a foreign language, the mind does not attempt to realize each word and acertain its meaning. Thus, by using Japanese in this track, she made the voice layer something warm and ambient; this ambience would have been impossible with an English language track.

I didn't read the translated lyrics, nor do I care what they say. This song sounds great, and the remixer is pretty damned talented. Job well done.

I couldn't have said it better myself. I'm very happy that the lyrics were in a language that I don't understand. I can just more fully realize the soundscape. Also, I think the language sounds more beautiful. An African language might have made it even cooler, though. Still, I'm very impressed with the whole ensemble of atmosphere.

I wholeheartedly agree here. I have come to appreciate songs where I cannot understand the lyrics...Sometimes I don't want to think about what someone is saying, I just want to get the jist of what they are evoking...They become a part of the song, atmospherically.

I use one of my favorite Japanese-sung songs, "The Real Folk Blues", as an example, because it has the exact same affect on me...I can't understand what is being said, but I am into the singer's voice, and the emotions she is evoking with her music accompanied by the background...I don't care how it is pronounced in "her" language, as long as it sounds good to me. Later, if I really dig the song, I will start to wonder what those lyrics really mean...the same goes with so many other songs sung in different languages. The lyrics and the music are sometimes so set apart, (especially in another language) that neither can be directly associated with each other when interpreting a song, and yet how they sound, in reference to the mood of the song, and what they make you feel, leads to the listener determining what and how those lyrics they heard, mean to them in the end. (whew)

I also have to say that I am glad this was insta-posted...I was wondering what happened to it after it was in the WIP section. And to pixietricks, I'm glad you combined the ohh ohh's with your main vocals at the end of the song...I was waiting for that.

I am sure this was a difficult piece to arrange, and I'm also sure many people who have tried to tackle it have given up, or just not made the cut, because the song is practically meant to be one big beautiful annoyance. I like how this mix was kept simple, and to the point, and I beg to differ about the climax...I feel there is one...it's right at the end of the song, where everything that's been there previously comes full circle...Not everything has to be plain as day to be "good", to me at least...I agree that is all just a matter of taste.

Anyway, if I had a hat, it would be off to you, for this inspiring and original piece, that sets itself apart from so many others on this site.

[SuperNomad]

Excellent remix, you have a great voice and I like the mood of it.

[Petara]

I always thought the original song was really weird, yet strangely satisfying as far as establishing an atmosphere. I got the same feelings for this mix mostly because she used some of the same samples and effects, but add her voice and it makes this mix pretty. Still, the prettiest OoT remix has to be RiverofTime.

[A-RoN]

This seems like an expanded version of the original, but dang! That voice has me sold! I'd love to hear more music from Jill in the future.

[Sword_Chucks]

One reason why I like this song is because the style is a lot like Martin O' Donnell, and I start adding a different percussion line everytime I hear it come up in my playlist. Then I just listen to the original lyrics that were created for this song and think how cool this would be in an actual Zelda anime. Good Job Jill andpixietricks!

[Jillian Aversa]

Good Job Jill andpixietricks!

Two names, one being. And thank you!

-Jill (a.k.a. pixietricks)

[JC83]

Personally I didn't like it. Nothing against you or your musical style, just my own tastes. I always hated the Forest Temple and the music that went with it. So I found it an odd choice all around.

At the same time good effort, it looks like plenty of people enjoyed it!

[Hachiryu]

I heard this mix early on, when it was going through make-overs on the WIP boards. I liked it then and I like it now. Great singing.