mickomoo Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 EDITED and uploaded song as of today 7/9, I'm still trying to find drums that might make this song more smooth Orchestra Only version: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cree` Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 The orchestra-only version sounds much better IMO. The guitars seem to be fighting with the rest of the instruments for frequencies. Makes listening a bit difficult on the ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelCityOutlaw Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 The orchestra-only version sounds much better IMO. The guitars seem to be fighting with the rest of the instruments for frequencies. Makes listening a bit difficult on the ears. I remember this tune. I personally think it's that the distorted guitar doesn't really fit. Seems kinda....dissonant? I dunno but it seems like theres a guitar doing one thing and the other is doing something completely different and it just makes my head swirl. You could try adjusting frequencies like Cree said but I really don't think that'll fix it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickomoo Posted July 4, 2011 Author Share Posted July 4, 2011 I remember this tune.I personally think it's that the distorted guitar doesn't really fit. Seems kinda....dissonant? I dunno but it seems like theres a guitar doing one thing and the other is doing something completely different and it just makes my head swirl. You could try adjusting frequencies like Cree said but I really don't think that'll fix it. I think part of the problem was I double tracked the guitars and it already had reverb. Idk what possessed me to do that, they were already pretty thin. Out of curiosity though, what would make the guitars work? I mean there are a lot of songs that include both electric guitars and orchestras/choirs. Is it my composition, I know partially it might be? Or is it my mixing? I know it's still that cus I'm still learning >_> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelCityOutlaw Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 I think part of the problem was I double tracked the guitars and it already had reverb. Idk what possessed me to do that, they were already pretty thin.Out of curiosity though, what would make the guitars work? I mean there are a lot of songs that include both electric guitars and orchestras/choirs. Is it my composition, I know partially it might be? Or is it my mixing? I know it's still that cus I'm still learning >_> Try killing the reverb on the guitar for sure. I'm not saying it can't fit, quite the contrary actually. Listening again, the guitar on my left is considerably louder than the one on my right. It's quite distracting. It's sounds like both guitars are doing something different all the time. Often a different melody. For example, the right guitar is up an octave or so and it has this one moment of tremelo picking but the left guitar remains just a regular picked note. There's lots of other times where the one guitar plays a faster melody and the other is slower. I don't think that frequenices are the problem with guitar really. I think it's that there is too much going on in the composition and some mix issues. In my opinion, if you get rid of the reverb on the guitar and make it a bit more rythmetic (more on this in a sec) balance out the volumes and make the guitars play the same thing it'll sound alot better. Another issue here is that you don't really have a definite rhythm. Almost everything is just melody. Try using the guitar in a rhythmetic sense and let the orchestra play your leads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickomoo Posted July 4, 2011 Author Share Posted July 4, 2011 Try killing the reverb on the guitar for sure.I'm not saying it can't fit, quite the contrary actually. Listening again, the guitar on my left is considerably louder than the one on my right. It's quite distracting. It's sounds like both guitars are doing something different all the time. Often a different melody. For example, the right guitar is up an octave or so and it has this one moment of tremelo picking but the left guitar remains just a regular picked note. There's lots of other times where the one guitar plays a faster melody and the other is slower. I don't think that frequenices are the problem with guitar really. I think it's that there is too much going on in the composition and some mix issues. In my opinion, if you get rid of the reverb on the guitar and make it a bit more rythmetic (more on this in a sec) balance out the volumes and make the guitars play the same thing it'll sound alot better. Another issue here is that you don't really have a definite rhythm. Almost everything is just melody. Try using the guitar in a rhythmetic sense and let the orchestra play your leads. I'm realizing that in most symphonic rock if there are two guitars, the lead doesn't play very often... I felt committed to having the lead play constantly. In hindsight that's stupid. I'm really proud of the intro... it seems decent, it becomes extremely dissonant from thereafter. The major problem is that the bass is very hesitant it seems, also if I choose to have guitars, there should be drums to accompany the rhythm. I'm going to redo this again lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelCityOutlaw Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 I'm realizing that in most symphonic rock if there are two guitars, the lead doesn't play very often... I felt committed to having the lead play constantly. In hindsight that's stupid. I'm really proud of the intro... it seems decent, it becomes extremely dissonant from thereafter. The major problem is that the bass is very hesitant it seems, also if I choose to have guitars, there should be drums to accompany the rhythm. I'm going to redo this again lol Lookin' forward to it. You been working on this track a while. Should sound killer in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickomoo Posted July 10, 2011 Author Share Posted July 10, 2011 Idk how drastic the changes in the song were but yeah it's updated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaiaLead Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 You need to work on your writing, first and foremost, mickomoo. I think you'd benefit much more as a musician if you focused on being able to craft a decent .mid before trying to perfect your guitar tone. From the music you've written, I feel as though you're a person who doesn't want to make generic sounding music. However, before you can dive into classical insanity, you've gotta learn the basic rules that you're trying to break first. Jam with the white keys to this to build a basic sense of what a generic song is supposed to feel and sound like. Even if you won't be sticking to a simple "kick-snare-kick-snare" kind of drum beat, or simple progression, you really need to build your sense of rhythm and harmony. Like.. I had always assumed TT, in each of its revisions, was in some obscure, difficult time signature.. until I counted the beats today. It was just really unrhythmic and reeaaally slow. I'm glad you're still at it, though. I think examining some vgmusic midis will help your understanding quite a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickomoo Posted July 10, 2011 Author Share Posted July 10, 2011 Like.. I had always assumed TT, in each of its revisions, was in some obscure, difficult time signature.. until I counted the beats today. It was just really unrhythmic and reeaaally slow. I'm glad you're still at it, though. I think examining some vgmusic midis will help your understanding quite a bit. It's in 4/4, but the guitars aren't following that lol. From what I can tell and from what people are telling me, the guitars are what are driving the songs in to chaos and that the orchestral version while not perfect seems to be more defined. I'm just seriously trying to force the guitars in there because I wanted to hear them. That and I wanted to practice panning and eq-ing an arrangement of a non cohesive set of instruments. >_< If I were to say, ditch the guitars and focus my attention on the orchestral version, are the discrepancies as bad? I know the timing could be tighter, I was having latency issues and I'm going to probably switch DAWs soon. And in terms of composition, tt is interestingly enough the only song whose scales I know, but could the writing of the orchestra be improved vastly? It seemed really bland to me, which is why I added the guitars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaiaLead Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 It's not an issue with timing, eq, panning or anything else related to hardware or sample quality. It's the writing with or without the guitars. I think you should start reading about and applying chords. It'll shape your melodies around bars more properly (rhythm), and your melodies will feel like they have direction (harmony). You've just got to learn a little bit more theory, and it'll improve the quality of your music much more than panning and eq will. Trust me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ectogemia Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 It's not an issue with timing, eq, panning or anything else related to hardware or sample quality. It's the writing with or without the guitars.I think you should start reading about and applying chords. It'll shape your melodies around bars more properly (rhythm), and your melodies will feel like they have direction (harmony). You've just got to learn a little bit more theory, and it'll improve the quality of your music much more than panning and eq will. Trust me! Yup. Chords make the world go round. Once you have the harmonic structure in place, you can do just about whatever you want with the melody so long as it fits within the chords, and it'll sound "right". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickomoo Posted July 10, 2011 Author Share Posted July 10, 2011 It's not an issue with timing, eq, panning or anything else related to hardware or sample quality. It's the writing with or without the guitars.I think you should start reading about and applying chords. It'll shape your melodies around bars more properly (rhythm), and your melodies will feel like they have direction (harmony). You've just got to learn a little bit more theory, and it'll improve the quality of your music much more than panning and eq will. Trust me! So rhythm isn't just a timing issue? I know before my earlier songs lacked rhythm because I never bothered to time my songs. I'm now currently aware that I have trouble writing percussion parts, which further adds to my lack of rhythm. I am an innately nonrhythmic being >_< Sorry about all the questions and what not I'm just trying to understand a bit more specifically. I centered this song around 2 chords and had the leading voice, the choir alternate between the two cords/scales in every measure. The other instruments followed the pattern as well. I thought harmony was present as long as all the instruments play in the same scale or scales complimentary to the one being played...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelCityOutlaw Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 So rhythm isn't just a timing issue? I know before my earlier songs lacked rhythm because I never bothered to time my songs. I'm now currently aware that I have trouble writing percussion parts, which further adds to my lack of rhythm. I am an innately nonrhythmic being >_<Sorry about all the questions and what not I'm just trying to understand a bit more specifically. I centered this song around 2 chords and had the leading voice, the choir alternate between the two cords/scales in every measure. The other instruments followed the pattern as well. I thought harmony was present as long as all the instruments play in the same scale or scales complimentary to the one being played...? Technically harmony occurs whenever multiple pitches occur at the same time. What they're recommending is learning about the different kinds of chords and how you can make them from scales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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