Super-Duper Sombrero Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 (edited) Double post for great justice! So this topic has been brought up more than a few times since we last discussed it, and it might be nice to put thoughts in writing without gunfire and explosions covering up everyone's ideas. Random crits. Currently they're on, as per vanilla rules of TF2. LEAVE THEM ON Leaving them on means we retain the higher weight of the autojoin master server list. This is what usually brings in the pubs, and can kickstart an empty server. TURN THEM OFF Turning them off can make gameplay less frustrating and more consistent. My thoughts - Turn that shit off, yo It's incredibly annoying to lose a fight against someone you should've bested, but lucky crits dictate otherwise (Random Bushwacka, anyone?). Not even mentioning that a well-placed natural 20 means a single heavy (or soldier, or demoman, or pyro) can clear an entire control point or payload cart (I personally did this just today, in fact), nullifying the efforts of the entire other team in an instant. Given the fact that the server is frequented and often filled entirely with regulars, pub players usually just end up getting kicked about half an hour into the night anyway. For me anyway, I couldn't give a damn about the pubbies. I have a much more enjoyable time playing with people I know I'll see again tomorrow or the next day, instead of some random player who doesn't care about the community at all. I should also note that (I'm pretty sure, at least) disabling random criticals does not actually remove us from the auto-join list. This was incorrect. Disabling random criticals does indeed remove you from the quickplay list. (Thanks Aeronaut!) Personally, I'd also love to see damage spread and bullet spread disabled as well. I prefer to know how much damage I can do at a given point in time. I firmly believe that soldiers should die after one headshot and one bodyshot, but I digress. Criticals discussion keeps popping up every night, so let's get it out of the way. Edited February 9, 2013 by Super-Duper Sombrero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Personally I believe random luck has its place. Like in DnD, or casinos. Their place however is not in a competitive multi-player game. It's frustrating when you do everything perfectly and pull off a SWEET FLANK, or nice ambush, just get poop thrown in your face and to fail due to random luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeronaut Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 (edited) I feel like random crits make the server more fun when everyone's not playing competitively and less fun when everyone is serious-businessing it up. If I'm screwing around and speccing/sniping, I really don't care if crits are on (What? I'm being honest) and will probably get a good laugh out of taking/dishing out some kind of bullshit random crit attacks that aren't scattergun-based. On the other hand, If I'm trying to be productive by playing Medic, I really dislike losing charge buildup to errant crit projectiles flying around corners. I'm personally of the opinion that we should have the "votecrits" command reinstated as a sort of mixed alternative to either extreme. If the server's full (as it has been recently), we probably don't need pub/quick-play compatibility to keep it there if half of us are making flippant comments about "random skill". EDIT: As Xero reminded me by mentioning it below, I very much like bullet spread and damage spread. Those are a fine degree of tolerable randomness to me and I think the game isn't quite as fun without them. Waffleshots suck. Edited February 9, 2013 by Aeronaut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XeroZohar Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Ah this old chestnut. I think I'll stay out of it since I'm not bothered either way. Well, ok, I do much prefer the bullet spread being on. You should not be able to be pinpoint accurate with an SMG or a shotgun. Crits and damage spread I can do without just fine. OK so I didn't stay out of it. Edit: Oh, and how about someone just fixes sourcemod and we have votecrits again? Then there's no need for a big decision Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Native Jovian Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 I'd prefer to keep them on, even though (since I mostly play jarate sniper anyway) they hurt me more than help. They're actually a pretty big part of the game balance (for example, melee crits are significantly more likely than ranged crits, so whacking someone a few times while they shoot you and hoping for a lucky crit is a viable tactic with random crits on and a fancy way to commit suicide when they're off), and a little randomness helps make the game more fluid by making things less predictable. Plus the fact that getting pubbies on the server is never a bad thing, and leaving crits on will help a lot with that. Ditto for damage and bullet spread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyrai Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Turning crits off means I won't get the thrill of reflecting a crit rocket back at it's target and killing everything in a five mile radius. LEAVE CRITS ON Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clefairy Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Oh, you were serious about this the other night? Excellent. TURN THEM OFF Yeah, the server gets more traffic with them on, but that traffic is a complete crap shoot. Some pubbies are pretty good, some are totally useless, most are just okay, but you never know which is which beforehand. More importantly, the retention rate is abysmal; once in a while somebody will decide to stay, Pika for example, but that seems to be the exception and not the rule. Don't even get me started on the teamstackers and outright trolls. And as others have said, it sucks to get the jump on your opponent and have the RNG decide you should die instead. I get that TF2 is kind of the Smash Brothers of FPS, meant to be more light-hearted and capricious, but there's a limit. As for the other bits, I like damage spread. Same idea as the crit mechanic, but not such a crazy damage spike, and no winners-win-more problems with scaling. Waffleshots I could go either way on; my inner physics nerd wails about realism, but this is a game where rocketjumping is a thing, so he doesn't have much to stand on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pika22 Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 TURN THEM OFF Random Bushwacking shouldn't be possible, anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phill Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 leave them on and give us the power to vote crits. They bring all the boys to the yard, but when the yard is full it would be nice to have the option to remove them. Personally, it's not other peoples crits that bother me, it's my own when I am trying to rocket or sticky jump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pika22 Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 (edited) Oh, you were serious about this the other night? Excellent.TURN THEM OFF More importantly, the retention rate is abysmal; once in a while somebody will decide to stay, Pika for example, but that seems to be the exception and not the rule. Actually, I was on the site for about a year before I decided to join (I'm lazy XD). Edited February 10, 2013 by Pika22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 leave them on and give us the power to vote crits. They bring all the boys to the yard, but when the yard is full it would be nice to have the option to remove them. Personally, it's not other peoples crits that bother me, it's my own when I am trying to rocket or sticky jump. Crits don't actually hurt yourself anymore than a normal rocket/sticky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamemaster1379 Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 leave them on and give us the power to vote crits. They bring all the boys to the yard, but when the yard is full it would be nice to have the option to remove them. Personally, it's not other peoples crits that bother me, it's my own when I am trying to rocket or sticky jump. I would have long since initiated vote crits if there were a viable method to do so. As I've said before, the only way to initiate a votecrits is through an exploitable plugin. The plugin was poorly coded and when exploited, effectively gives all players full admin access, which I refuse to implement. If a different plugin existed, I would initiate it to make use of votecrits no problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XeroZohar Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 I would have long since initiated vote crits if there were a viable method to do so. As I've said before, the only way to initiate a votecrits is through an exploitable plugin. The plugin was poorly coded and when exploited, effectively gives all players full admin access, which I refuse to implement. If a different plugin existed, I would initiate it to make use of votecrits no problem. I'd like a little more information on this. What plugin is explotiable? Is it specific to the votecrits command/script, or the plugin that runs said command/script? Is it a vulnerability in TF2 itself? And in any case, is the code for these available so that someone with the know-how and/or time could fix the exploit themselves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super-Duper Sombrero Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 If the votecrits plugin wasn't a problem, believe me, it would still be there. Currently though (like GM said) that's not really a viable option due to funky coding vulnerabilities though. I've already looked at a few other plugins that offer similar functionality, but they do things like automatically initiating a vote after a map starts (too intrusive for me, thanks), one that has some sort of passive vote based on user settings, and one that apparently gives admin to all the players. I really really liked the old votecrits, how it was similar to RTV in that to even initiate a vote, a certain portion of the players would have to call for it before it would even pop up. I'd like a little more information on this. What plugin is explotiable? Is it specific to the votecrits command/script, or the plugin that runs said command/script? Is it a vulnerability in TF2 itself? And in any case, is the code for these available so that someone with the know-how and/or time could fix the exploit themselves? Actually this isn't a bad idea. I (briefly) looked for the exploitable plugin to see if any progress had been made, but I didn't see it. Any links or more info would be awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phill Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 Crits don't actually hurt yourself anymore than a normal rocket/sticky. And here I am thinking they did, I must have horrible luck of taking damage just as I get that random crit. I'd like a little more information on this. What plugin is explotiable? Is it specific to the votecrits command/script, or the plugin that runs said command/script? Is it a vulnerability in TF2 itself? And in any case, is the code for these available so that someone with the know-how and/or time could fix the exploit themselves? Actually this isn't a bad idea. I (briefly) looked for the exploitable plugin to see if any progress had been made, but I didn't see it. Any links or more info would be awesome. To expand on this further and because I am now curious, what plugins are we using on OCR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super-Duper Sombrero Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 (edited) To expand on this further and because I am now curious, what plugins are we using on OCR. Here is a list of all currently running SM plugins on the OCR server. Almost everything by AlliedModders LLC comes default with SM. You can also find out by typing "sm plugins" in the console. "Vote Scramble Teams" (1.0.500) by KevLaR/Seb/Snipa "Basic Comm Control" (1.5.0-dev+3761) by AlliedModders LLC "Custom Votes" (0.5.6) by chundo "Sound Commands" (1.5.0-dev+3761) by AlliedModders LLC "[TF2] Fake Item Messages" (1.5.0) by DarthNinja "DeadChat" (2.0) by Greyscale "Basic Info Triggers" (1.5.0-dev+3761) by AlliedModders LLC "Client Preferences" (1.5.0-dev+3761) by AlliedModders LLC "SourceBans" (1.4.10) by SourceBans Development Team "Spray Tracer" (5.8a) by Nican132, CptMoore, Lebson506th "Anti-Flood" (1.5.0-dev+3761) by AlliedModders LLC "[TF2] High Five Enemies" (1.1) by FlaminSarge "Admin Menu" (1.5.0-dev+3761) by AlliedModders LLC "Basic Chat" (1.5.0-dev+3761) by AlliedModders LLC "Rock The Vote Extended" (1.9.2) by Powerlord and AlliedModders LLC "Admin File Reader" (1.5.0-dev+3761) by AlliedModders LLC "[TF2Items] Manager" (1.4.1) by Damizean & Asherkin "Map Nominations Extended" (1.9.2) by Powerlord and AlliedModders LLC "MapChooser Extended" (1.9.3) by Powerlord, Zuko, and AlliedModders LLC "SQL Admins (Prefetch)" (1.5.0-dev+3761) by AlliedModders LLC "TF Force Holidays" (1.8.1) by Powerlord "TF2 Class Restrictions" (0.6) by Tsunami "Fun Commands" (1.5.0-dev+3761) by AlliedModders LLC "SQL Admins (Threaded)" (1.5.0-dev+3761) by AlliedModders LLC "Player Commands" (1.5.0-dev+3761) by AlliedModders LLC "TF2 FF on during waiting for players" (1.1) by Ratty "SQL Admin Manager" (1.4.0-dev) by AlliedModders LLC "Remote Control Sentries" (5.1) by twistedeuphoria,CnB|Omega,Tsunami,-=|JFH|=-Naris "Fun Votes" (1.5.0-dev+3761) by AlliedModders LLC "Name Change Punisher" (1.0) by Powerlord "Reserved Slots" (1.5.0-dev+3761) by AlliedModders LLC "Basic Commands" (1.5.0-dev+3761) by AlliedModders LLC "Basic Votes" (1.5.0-dev+3761) by AlliedModders LLC "[TF2] Resize Players" (1.1.2) by 11530 "Admin Help" (1.5.0-dev+3761) by AlliedModders LLC "Nextmap" (1.5.0-dev+3761) by AlliedModders LLC "[TF2Items] Give Weapon" (3.10) by asherkin (Updated by FlaminSarge) Edited February 11, 2013 by Super-Duper Sombrero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Gun Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 And here I am thinking they did, I must have horrible luck of taking damage just as I get that random crit. I know for me, there's a perception that crit jumps do more self-damage, since you still get the usual visual/sound effects that flip the mental trigger of OSHI- CRITS! Then I look down at my health and realize I'm still alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super-Duper Sombrero Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I have prepared the valentines' day event. Primed and ready to fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XeroZohar Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 I have prepared the valentines' day event. Primed and ready to fire. I... I dare not ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brushfire Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 For those of us that have fallen in this fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darlos9D Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Well geeze, I didn't expect EVERYone to bail on Harvest. I wanted to go full demo knight! Booo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brushfire Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 I am the only person whom likes Harvest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clefairy Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Harvest is actually pretty popular on the server generally. But, when someone (usually Baha) announces they're leaving right at the end of the map, it cascades and a bunch more people leave in response. Normally it survives that first desertion for a couple of maps, but several of us wanted to do an MVM so we also left. Sorry about your luck, mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Gun Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 How long were you guys on that MvM map, anyway? I woke up from an impromptu nap too late to join the server crowd, but I happened to glance at my friends list a few times, and it seemed like it was a long slog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bahamut Posted February 23, 2013 Author Share Posted February 23, 2013 Harvest is actually pretty popular on the server generally. But, when someone (usually Baha) announces they're leaving right at the end of the map, it cascades and a bunch more people leave in response.Normally it survives that first desertion for a couple of maps, but several of us wanted to do an MVM so we also left. Sorry about your luck, mate. Actually, a bunch of people planned on leaving before me! Seeing that, I just thought it was a good time for me to sleep (plus I was tired). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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