Chee Zeee Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 One thing that irks me, perhaps just from not studying orchestration enough in general, is using world music instruments. yasunori mitsuda did this a lot in say chrono cross. if you listen to the theme of lizard rock it has a sitar with an african marimba (dunno if it was intended to be gyil or balafon or what). or for the home telmina it has bagpipes and mandolin. Is it just me or do these clearly not mix well in real life? Especially with bass and drums. This is something of utmost concern to me, is that in real life the mix wouldn't actually be authentic. Are there any resources to help me calculate such things as throwing acoustic world instruments alongside western acoustic and/or electronics? it's obvious that the bagpipes would drown out everything in the telmina case, the one string mandolin repetitive note would not even be heard unless amped (even with the fact that mandolin's 'double' strings). the sitar may be a bit too quiet as would be liked in the lizard rock case, since he has two people on the african vibraphone, not to mention there is another vibraphone that is playing parallel harmonies that sounds kinda choral. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dissidia Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Pointless to compose as for real instruments unless you are actually really composing for instruments to record? I don't get it, is it for practice or what's the goal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moseph Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 If you mic stuff, it ceases to be an issue. In live performance for the cases you cite, I'm pretty sure there would be amplification. EDIT: IMO, the only circumstances in which "authentic" level balance is really a considerable issue are those of ensembles that are traditionally unamplified such as orchestras, string quartets, etc. and those of ad hoc ensembles in live performance situations for which amplification is not available or not desired. But the cases you cite don't fall into either of these categories. For ad hoc ensembles in recording studio or sampled situations, anything goes as long as it sounds good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PixelPanic Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Just wondering, what proof do you have that a sitar and a marimba wouldn't work? IMO, that sounds pretty kick-ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannthr Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Planning on touring around with a bagpipe, mandolin, marimba band? Because if you are, then you've got some serious thinking to do. Otherwise you need to chill out, the second you even MENTION using electronic instruments, "western" or otherwise, you're evoking an amplification (minimum) and/or mixing (more likely) process. Yes, how do they mix? Pretty much like anything else, through a mixer with consideration for levels, pan, eq, compression, etc, etc, etc, ad infinitum. But I have a feeling you're not planning on putting together a bagpipe, mandonlin, double marimba quartet, are you? So yes, it does sound like you need to work on your studying habits a bit here. Orchestration is the ORIGINAL mix. Before gear controlled levels, levels were controlled by orchestration and doubling. Do you think there's 1 tuba in an orchestra because Tuba players are rare? and 26 violins because too many kids picked violin in elementry school? No, it's because that's how many violins it takes in a concert hall to equal the power of a single tuba. ::::: The More you Know :::: ******** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omni-Psyence Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 (to Chee Zeee) I don't know man, I understand the point you're trying to make about orchestration and all that but to be 100% honest I think there's a way to make anything happen in music, and to sounds good. Perhaps this combination isn't used in real, live settings due to the reasons you mentioned but this is the 21st century and music has evolved so much... the possibilities for arrangements and instrumentation are endless. Some things that don't work well purely live can do magical things on a recording. To help you with the live situation though, you probably just need a good sound guy to balance the levels. I don't think it's impossible to achieve a good mix with those instruments but you will definitely need to work on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabeel Ansari Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 One thing that irks me, perhaps just from not studying orchestration enough in general, is using world music instruments. yasunori mitsuda did this a lot in say chrono cross. if you listen to the theme of lizard rock it has a sitar with an african marimba (dunno if it was intended to be gyil or balafon or what). or for the home telmina it has bagpipes and mandolin. Is it just me or do these clearly not mix well in real life? Especially with bass and drums.This is something of utmost concern to me, is that in real life the mix wouldn't actually be authentic. Are there any resources to help me calculate such things as throwing acoustic world instruments alongside western acoustic and/or electronics? it's obvious that the bagpipes would drown out everything in the telmina case, the one string mandolin repetitive note would not even be heard unless amped (even with the fact that mandolin's 'double' strings). the sitar may be a bit too quiet as would be liked in the lizard rock case, since he has two people on the african vibraphone, not to mention there is another vibraphone that is playing parallel harmonies that sounds kinda choral. Why does it irk you that technology lets us do wonderful things with music? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozovian Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 This is something of utmost concern to me, is that in real life the mix wouldn't actually be authentic. Are there any resources to help me calculate such things as throwing acoustic world instruments alongside western acoustic and/or electronics? Wouldn't it actually be more authentic if done for real? Seriously tho, anybody know a good resource on how loud different instruments get? Aside from electronic instruments, I mean, for reasons that should be obvious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannthr Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 http://www.noisemeters.com/news/osha-noise-meter.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moseph Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 (soft)---->(loud) kazoo---->violin---->trombone---->pipe organ---->couple o' trumpets---->rocket launch---->lots o' trumpets Please note that this list is not exhaustive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannthr Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 (soft)---->(loud)kazoo---->violin---->trombone---->pipe organ---->couple o' trumpets---->rocket launch---->lots o' trumpets Please note that this list is not exhaustive. Exactly as described in Rimsky-Korsikov's Treatise on Orchestration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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