Home Studio Challenge

[Argitoth]

These people are professionals, and can offer advice that the amateur and hobbyist focused OCR would likely not be able to cover nearly as well.

And vice versa. I bet you anything they won't help him find good prices on software.

CHIZAM! NI Komplete for $1150: on ebay

[Compyfox]

The closet might give you an unwanted bass boost due to the "empty room". I'd put some bass traps in the corners of the room and maybe even "in" the closed to prevent that. What's your opinion on that, yoozer?

Also there's foam behind the speakers, and to the right side of them. But the door to the bathroom doesn't have that. Dunno... wouldn't that change the sound of it?

Else... well... you gotta play around with your room, try to find the places were you have trouble with frequencies flattering, etc. But a bass track for the "holes" should be some great help.

[speculative]

CPU

For a CPU, why hasn't AMD Dual Core been mentioned? Dual Core processors were created to handle lots of different programs at once (for example, many VSTs). Here's this: AMD 939 Dual Core)

For $500 you get get a 2.2GHz dual chip, or for $200 less you could get the 1.8GHz A64 3800+, which would be plenty of power for you. Until Intel gets their new architecture out the door, AMD Dual-core rules the day for now. If you check out the NI Komplete recommended system though, they only list a 1.6Ghz Athlon XP, which can probably be had used for $20. So, you could save a lot of $ on a computer depending on what you need it to do. Take a look at the requirements/recommendations of the software you plan to buy.

[zircon]

I'm skeptical of dual core processors for audio stuff, given that some manufacturers like Native Instruments specifically say you shouldn't use hyperthreading (which is essentially the same as dual core, except it's a virtual processor core).

[speculative]

I'm skeptical of dual core processors for audio stuff, given that some manufacturers like Native Instruments specifically say you shouldn't use hyperthreading (which is essentially the same as dual core, except it's a virtual processor core).

True! Like mentioned - you should always check the requirements of the specific hardware you plan to run.

I plan to use FL and a few cheap VST plug-in instruments, so I realized I really didn't need to upgrade just yet from my current configuration. People are having great luck with the X2 though in many things: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=114774&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Considering AMD is going to release quad-core technology, that will either drive the price of X2's down, or else X2's might be lost in the mix (so to speak )

[Argitoth]

I'm skeptical of dual core processors for audio stuff, given that some manufacturers like Native Instruments specifically say you shouldn't use hyperthreading (which is essentially the same as dual core, except it's a virtual processor core).

True! Like mentioned - you should always check the requirements of the specific hardware you plan to run.

I wouldn't worry. I'm sure I saw a thread on KVR with a guy saying his dual core was awesome. Hyperthreading is not the same as dual core after all. And what on earth do you mean by virtual? It has an extra L2 cache, that's not virtual!

[zircon]

I wouldn't worry. I'm sure I saw a thread on KVR with a guy saying his dual core was awesome. Hyperthreading is not the same as dual core after all. And what on earth do you mean by virtual? It has an extra L2 cache, that's not virtual!

Yes, "a guy on KVR" saying something is awesome is clearly proof of something. Native Instruments (among other developers) specifically says hyperthreading causes problems in their sampling line, including Kontakt/Kompakt players.

Let me explain something briefly. The speed advantage of hyperthreading, dual core, and dual processors comes from the processing of multiple "threads" at the same time. Hyperthreading does this by creating a 'virtual' second processor so that multiple threads to be handled. Dual core processors are like dual processors, except you just don't have two physical, separate chips; the dual 'cores' are on one chip. Thus, any application that is not compatible with hyperthreading (because of incompatibility with multiple thread processing) will have the same problems with dual core and dual processors.

[Argitoth]

Hot Dang, Zircon. Doesn't that show a lack of competence in a company to not support hyperthreading? Maybe some companies are in the process of making the move.

Edit: Oh yeah I remember. I read that this guy upgraded to dual core AMD and he said his synths used to eat up 80% of cpu, but with the same project it's now 20%. Maybe we should all build two computers. One with dual core to run synths and one computer designed for large libraries.

[zircon]

You don't need a ridiculous computer to make good music. I was just visiting a good friend of mine (a songwriter + composer) that uses a simple iMac G5 with Garageband 2. He's brilliant.

[Argitoth]

You don't need a ridiculous computer to make good music.

I need a ridiculous computer to make ridiculous music. I want people to say, "HAY! That music is ridiculous!"

So Zircon, for $500 what CPU do you suggest? What's the best CPU out there for audio that doesn't go over $500?

[OverCoat]

I guess noone has anything to say about the actual room. Yeah, forget the fuckin' room, let's focus on the COMPUTER because obviously that's the most important part

That's ok, there are books you can get that probably give you better expertise.

[zircon]

Just the CPU? Any old pentium 4 will get the job done. I always go for one step below the newest tech, since the newest stuff is typically buggy and overpriced. For instance, when 3.6ghz processors were hot, I picked a 3ghz processor for about $200. 3.2-3.6ghz processors were much more expensive. Why blow the extra cash?

[Argitoth]

Yeah, forget the fuckin' room, let's focus on the COMPUTER because obviously that's the most important part.

1. This is OCR, what do you expect?

2. The computer *is* the most important part of doing music when you're composing ON A COMPUTERRRRR...

[OverCoat]

2. The computer *is* the most important part of doing music if it's done ON A COMPUTERRRRR...

The computer is shit if the room and recording equipment sucks. It's just there to put all the tracks together and maybe use some supplemental sampling/synthesis.

[zylance]

2. The computer *is* the most important part of doing music if it's done ON A COMPUTERRRRR...

The computer is shit if the room and recording equipment sucks. It's just there to put all the tracks together and maybe use some supplemental sampling/synthesis.

Good point. I'm looking for more on the room side, cause I simply don't have much experience in it. I understand the computer well enough; Zircon gave me some good pointers I will definitely consider.

Tonight I am going to draw out a block diagram representing how the whole shabang will hook up. I see if I can post it tomorrow. Should be fun.

P.S. Thanks, compy, for your expertise on the foam. I'm going to look into the bass traps and covering up that bathroom. One thing; I don't understand the "empty room" thing you speak of. Is this the sound entering the closet through the door and being reflected? Should I put foam in there too? Also, which is better, cones or those diamond things?

Edit: I do want to do some video editing. I have a 3.0 ghz P4 "gaming" computer that I have been using for audio, video and games for the past couple years now, and it hold up pretty well with premiere. Also, I've had hyper-threading on and no problems with kompakt have occurred. Seeing the trend, though, a PC with a decent P4 and a lot of ram will be perfect for what I need.

[Compyfox]

Well I dun know nothing about sonic foam, but yoozer might help you on there. I mentionted the closed as "empty room" and "possible bass box" in this cause, cause chances are that the sound that comes from the other side of the room, will be reflected in that empty closed and then thrown back at you with a "bass boost".

BTW: Bass-traps are easy to make.

If you have some old small cabinets (those you have at the side of the best), simply stuff a pillar in it and et voila... best and cheapest bass trap you can get.

Another thing that might be interesting... Has the closet any light in it? Can somebody stand in there and do some vocal/guitar recordings? If so... and this room is used as "dedicated studio" now, why not stuff some foam/blankets/cutain onto the doors/walls of this small "extra room". Then you have an extra vocal booth too and don't have to mess with the room acoustics to get some "clean recordings" in there.

Else you can get some partitions (moveable walls) to build a "smaller area" within the room and record in there. The purpose is simple: you reduce the roomsize around the microphone and you can block humming/hissing from your PC a bit.

Depends on you, you have lots of possibilities. Stuff that I don't have.

[zylance]

Hmm, that closet thing sounds like a good idea. I don't think I can put up partitions; the room is too tall. I definitely think it will be possible to curtain off the closet, though. Thanks for your help.

[Compyfox]

Can you please give me some measures and maybe some photos on the closet, please? I wanna get to know how big this thing actually is to think about what you can possibly do out of it.

[Yoozer]

Well I dun know nothing about sonic foam, but yoozer might help you on there

Did I already mention http://forum.studiotips.com/ and http://www.studiotips.com/ ? Anyway, that's where you need to look.

There are several ways to handle this:

- Do nothing

This will allow you to use the room for other purposes if you ever move out. It's not ideal though.

- Treat as much as you can

This means setting up basstraps and damping at the critical places. This probably would be the best if you don't have a house of your own.

- Go bananas (B-A-N-A-N-A-S)

Which gives you a room-in-a-room and costs about $15K even if you do it yourself.

The people there are very experienced with the whole science behind it, but you might end up with a room that gets a completely fixed purpose - it'll be a studio only. It costs a lot to bring it back into the old state again.

Before posting there; It's not OCR at all. You are expected to do your homework as extensively as possible first. Educate yourself thoroughly on the matter, search as much as possible of what you do not understand. I'm not trying to discourage you but they take all of it very seriously so you'll have to play along. I've browsed through some of the material there and I wouldn't even feel comfortable with registering to post stuff (mainly because I'm not able to put any improvements through).

Start with the basics. You want a room with a flat response and a reduced reverb time for all frequencies. The monitor speakers you have are going to stand free - on a distance of the wall. There should be treatment everywhere the sound can reflect directly; damp the first two reflections and you've lost a lot of energy already.

Sound has a low-frequency and a high-frequency component; the highs can be damped with foams which disperse and diffuse. The lows need basstraps - essentially a membrane that acts as a buffer for the low-frequency waves.

Rectangular corners of the room are the spots you should look at, as they cause most of the problems. Putting basstraps there would solve a lot of issues already; it means you have to do less effort on the walls themselves.

There's also the issue of room "modes" - the distance between opposing walls. That is the wavelength of a certain frequency and because waves can bounce back and forth that frequency will show up as a peak. This phenomenon is essentially resonance and it should be solved with a 'tuned' bass trap; a regular one will not suppress that particular frequency.

Those are the basic things I can think of... You should keep these in mind and it depends on your budget and the will of the home owner to alter the room . You can buy some really nice Auralex stuff, but if you can make it yourself like the basstraps, you'll save yourself some money, have a better performance, and you'll be able to blend it with the current looks of the room.

[zylance]

I just finished an updated equipment list.

Here.

Made a nice spreadsheet for it.

[Argitoth]

Did you ever take into account the learning curve with all that software?

There will be a huge learning curve for all the NI stuff. Matter of fact, if you weren't going to buy NI Komplete you would probably want to buy software synths one at a slow enough rate for you to get some kind of idea how each one works.

I think it will be a huge mistake if you blindly commit your money to NI Komplete, there are many many software synthesizers that can compete with NI stuff. For example, what about YellowTools Independence instead of NI Kontakt? What about Zebra instead of Absynth? Tassman instead of Reaktor? Even though you could save money buying NI komplete in one shot, I think you will have a much bigger range of awesome synths if you buy from other companies one or two at a time all the while researching each one and getting exactly what you need and NOT buying NI komplete to get a buncha stuff you may not even like, may not want, or may not need.

But then again, NI komplete is not just synthesizers. Battery IMO is the best drum sampler, intakt is very good beat slice editor, but then Stylus RMX has features intakt will never have. I'm not sure if Stylus can edit individual slices like intakt can though.

[zircon]

Argitoth.. once again, you don't own ANY of the stuff you listed so I don't see how you can be advising Zoola on any of it.

NI Komplete is an amazing library of products. There's no debate about it, it's the best deal around today in the music software world. 25gb+ of samples, arguably the most powerful instrument sampler on the market (as well as 3 other samplers), high-quality synths, and THE most versatile musical program on earth, Reaktor. You can't go wrong.

[Tyler Heath]

to argitoth:

it could be that he's researched this more thoroughly than you give him credit for.

edit: to argitoth again:

it could also be that you don't know what you're talking about.

correct me if I'm wrong, though.

however, from what zirc has said (and from the concurring opinions I've read), komplete is an excellent choice.

[zylance]

Did you ever take into account the learning curve with all that software?

There will be a huge learning curve for all the NI stuff. Matter of fact, if you weren't going to buy NI Komplete you would probably want to buy software synths one at a slow enough rate for you to get some kind of idea how each one works.

I think it will be a huge mistake if you blindly commit your money to NI Komplete, there are many many software synthesizers that can compete with NI stuff. For example, what about YellowTools Independence instead of NI Kontakt? What about Zebra instead of Absynth? Tassman instead of Reaktor? Even though you could save money buying NI komplete in one shot, I think you will have a much bigger range of awesome synths if you buy from other companies one or two at a time all the while researching each one and getting exactly what you need and NOT buying NI komplete to get a buncha stuff you may not even like, may not want, or may not need.

But then again, NI komplete is not just synthesizers. Battery IMO is the best drum sampler, intakt is very good beat slice editor, but then Stylus RMX has features intakt will never have. I'm not sure if Stylus can edit individual slices like intakt can though.

Why? Why? What if I like NI? You are not making any compelling arguments against it. I've messed with a lot of their stuff and I found it in intuitive and powerful. Besides, the core features I want (komtakt, reaktor, FM7, intakt) would cost nearly the same as komplete if bought separately, so why bother? I like their products. Besides, how do you know so much about all of these? Did you buy NI Komplete?

I understand the learning that comes with all of this. I am setting up a studio; learning is half the job.

EDIT: Triple whammy. Well said, Zirc. I did do my research (or so I think...)

[OverCoat]