Nonamer Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 This is just a general music composition and theory question more than a technical question. So I've had a lead melody for a remix stuck in my head for a while, and I finally managed to lay part of it down in Logic. My main issue is that I've been trying to find notes and chords that harmonize with the main lead, and I've had no success whatsoever. Does anyone have tips for creating harmonies that match your melody? In case anyone is wondering in terms of the structure of the arrangement, the final song is going to be a string instrument lead with a piano providing the background. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magellanic Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 If I understand correctly you want to try and sort out a harmonic progression? If so, the best place to start would be with the bass. Get a bassline that works with the melody. Start with whole notes perhaps, then develop it further by maybe switching some of the whole notes for 2-beat notes. Often (not always) your melody will imply a harmonic progression, so perhaps a good start would be to copy the melody line, put it down an octave or two and then start taking out some notes. Find the ones that are the root of a chord/harmony. Typically the first notes of a bar will have the strongest influence on what the chord might be. Obviously though, this depends on your melody line and how you've written it. Just as an added thought, you could be having difficulty with harmonizing it because you haven't worked out where the chord switches could potentially be. You may have to alter the melodic line if the harmony is switching too fast for your liking. Having said that though, if you can't work out a chord per bar, it could be you need to have 2. Hope that helps and that I understood your question correctly. If you want something more in-depth I'm happy to oblige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelCityOutlaw Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Well, you need to know all the intervals and chords that they create. At the very least, you should know how to make major and minor triads derived from the scale the melody is composed with. You should also understand the difference between consonance and dissonance. There is an endless number of ways to harmonize your melody. You could make each note a new chord if you wanted too. As Magellanic said, you should look for "chord tones" in the melody. For example, if the first bar of the melody primarily uses the notes A, C, and E, you could play an A minor chord beneath that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannthr Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 I think that working in a Bass line is only intuiting the harmonies you're struggling to create. Find the pulse or beat of your melody--where are the hits, how does the rhythm function. Then work with chord tones, as mentioned before. Let your melody land on a chord tone. There are 7 chords in a diatonic scale that are easily accessible to beginners, three major, three minor, and one diminished. Find your pulse and divide your melody up into pieces, then for each piece, find the one note that subsumes the entire pulse, what is the most dominant note in that section of the melody, then write down all the chords that you COULD use--explore each one, in order, to discover what combination you feel best works. This is the systematic method I teach my students when discussing how to harmonize a melody to beginners of music theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozovian Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Back when i was messing around and learning this stuff, I would add random notes above the melody, just to see how they worked. After a while, I started figuring out where they fit best, and what notes would work, and now kind'a hear it in my head before I write/play it. What I do now is pretty much what Dan said about dividing a melody into pieces and adding a note or two to each, trying to stick to intervals that form or add to chords. As great and fundamental as triads are, I now work more in 7th chords, adding a note to work with and ensuring the intervals don't get too large even when the melody lands on the 5th. Aside from 7th chords, sus chords work too, they're just more filler than closing chords. I don't have to worry about using too small intervals when I can imply that a chord isn't merely a triad or 7th. Still, it's probably best to start with triads and expand experimentally. As for the track, you don't have to change chords all the time, and you don't have to stay in the same key/mode/scale all the time either. Find something that works for a part, something that works with another, and bridge them... somehow. If it sounds stupid, try again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timaeus222 Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Something you could also do is listen to certain chords and try to identify them on a piano or something that you can play and analyze what you played. That way you know how to get that sound or feel you want, and you'll know, for example, that a good jazzy chord is an Am6 1st inv (A minor 6th first inversion), written as C-E-F-A. Basically, learn the types of chords there are and find a pattern on how to relate them. Minor/Major, Diminished/Augmented, diads, triads, tetrads (rarely are there 5 note one hand chords), and find a system that helps you organize them, regardless of whether you know music theory or not. Memorizing and identifying terms isn't too difficult, as long as you're matching real concepts with real designations. For example, a root major chord (1-3-5, like C-E-G or F-A-C) with a flatted third (the E in C-E-G or A in F-A-C) is minor, and with a flatted third and fifth (E and G in C-E-G, etc.) is diminished. A root major chord with a sharped fifth (sometimes sounds ugly) is augmented. Diads, triads, and tetrads are simply any chord with 2, 3, or 4 notes respectively. Another thing you could do is take a simple song and try to recompose certain parts of it from scratch. Maybe that could help you see what note harmonies it has since it will be in front of you in MIDI form. OR you could just mess around and see what you could come up with. One time I tried that Am6 1st inv chord and created a progression by shifting up modes (shifting every note up a whole step) and, eventually, a 1:31 song out of it (with some modifications to the chords later on once I got inspired halfway through). It was really a patch bank demo for Zebra2 so I made all the sounds used (giving me an advantage in terms of inspiring sounds), but regardless, I wouldn't have come up with that song without a chord progression written first. Not to say making a chord progression first is an uber-good way, but it worked for me just then, though that usually isn't how it works out for me. This is that track: Timaeus - After Dark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GallenWolf Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Do you know how to form the basic triads? Back when I started I only knew how to form major/minor triads (you should have seen ppl's faces when I asked what's the diff between a C7 and CMaj 7 lol), and picked chords that contained notes of my melody in it, and just gave it a test to see how it sounded. E.g. if I had a phrase C, E, C, E..... C and E could be used in the C triad (CEG) or A minor (Am) triad (ACE) - I then experiment with either of these chords on my keyboard and see which sounds better in relation to other chords around. If you'd be interested to pass me a section of your melody, I'd love to see if I can harmonize it. Been practising on inventions lately, not touched harmony in awhile. Also, I'd suggest this book if you want something to work on for basic harmony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frederic Petitpas Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Knit 3rd, 5ths and octaves ? I dunno I've never had trouble doing harmonies, counterpoints, stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timaeus222 Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Knit 3rd, 5ths and octaves ? I dunno I've never had trouble doing harmonies, counterpoints, stuff Yeah, I just like harmonizing with my voice sometimes. It's weird, but one time I randomly harmonized with the hum of the leaf blower guy's leaf blower as I was walking to my next university class. xD Seriously though, my point is that if you can hear a note and come up with one other note that creates an effective harmonic interval from the original note, you can begin to imagine chords in your head. Even if you don't know how they look, you know how they sound, and you can mess around pulling out specific notes and building the chord one note at a time until it sounds how you imagined it. zircon calls it "ear training". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frederic Petitpas Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I call it making music heh but yeah it certainly doesn't stain the ears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Jobson Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 do you have good ears? are you working with audio or midi for your lead? (older) video game music utilizes a ton of harmony... an easy way i create harmony, say for a synth lead is to copy certain midi notes (or an entire lead section) and arrange them in 3rds, 4ths, and 5ths higher than what the original notes are. You should be able to tell immediately which ones sound good or bad, then just rearrange to your liking. Does this make sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelCityOutlaw Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 do you have good ears? are you working with audio or midi for your lead? (older) video game music utilizes a ton of harmony...an easy way i create harmony, say for a synth lead is to copy certain midi notes (or an entire lead section) and arrange them in 3rds, 4ths, and 5ths higher than what the original notes are. You should be able to tell immediately which ones sound good or bad, then just rearrange to your liking. Does this make sense? That's a terrible method Really, it's not hard to learn all the different kinds of chords and how to make them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Jobson Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 That's a terrible method Well, sorry, just trying to help by offering another opinion. As far as oldschool video game lead kinda stuff goes, it works for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelCityOutlaw Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 Well, sorry, just trying to help by offering another opinion.As far as oldschool video game lead kinda stuff goes, it works for me Lol well, whatever works I guess. If it sounds good, it sounds good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nase Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 Lol well, whatever works I guess. If it sounds good, it sounds good. It just means applying trial and error principles to playing with the piano roll. If you learn from the semi-random results, It works just fine. It really is impossible to make music from the heart and not pick up skills, however you do it. First page is full of good stuff tho, too. But don't ever underestimate noobs fooling around on a note grid. That's how so many of us started out, and more often than not, we pick up some good shit along the way. Stuff that feels fresher than same ol western minor major duality theory. Ya hear me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonicThHedgog Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 That's a terrible method Really, it's not hard to learn all the different kinds of chords and how to make them. Its actually sounds like a good idea imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozovian Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 don't ever underestimate noobs fooling around on a note grid.That's how so many of us started out, and more often than not, we pick up some good shit along the way. This. 10chars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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