BioShock Infinite

[Tensei]

My beef is that is IS a modern FPS. It wasn't supposed to be. There are ton of Open World / RPG style games out there, and before that "MetroidVania" or "MGS" style games where you can go to any place in the entire game. Again pointing to BioShock 1 and System Shock 2 as games made by the same team that have far more openness then this one. I don't really play many modern FPS games because they do nothing for me, so I couldn't tell you if a game is more or less open than Infinite. But I know Infinite is SIGNIFICANTLY less open then BS1/SS2 and many other games that it was supposed to be like, and far less open then it was advertised.

It may have more openness then COD/Halo style games that are a dime a dozen. But is that really an achievement? It is a step backwards IMO compared to its history

For a modern FPS, I would have to say it is doing well for itself. Maybe its pushing modern FPS forward a tiny bit. It just could of, and should of, been more than a modern FPS in the first place

I don't recall saying the combat was better in the original. The original wasn't a combat focused game so why would it? It was even more focused on story telling (though much more indirectly, the recordings were actually useful for expanding the story), had a much slower pace, combined the games creepy and atmospheric setting. The game has challenging enemies you had to kinda solve like puzzles or just sneak passed because you were outclassed, along with actually having some small puzzles. The Plasmids were pretty powerful and useful in the game where I feel like im wasting my time using them in Infinite because the game just wants me to constantly move and shoot and the enemies rarily ever fall for the traps. There was far less ammo to boot making a small amount of resource management / survival horror going on.

Every single enemy in infinite is just plowing down with the most powerful weapons (which are laying ALL OVER THE PLACE in the multiple battlefields you come accross) you can find while hiding under chest high walls and enemies ducking and covering "realistically"

Well there's also the fact that being able to backtrack to any place locks you into a particular narrative where all of the levels you pass through have to remain unchanged. Things like the statue getting partially destroyed, or permanently passing through tears to alternate realities don't gel with that.

Also, implying that the recordings in this game aren't useful for expanding the story is just ridiculous. You won't even know half of what's going on if you don't listen to the recordings, and they touch upon some major plot points. The world building and the characters are generally much denser and thought-out than the original.

I'll give you the lack of optional Big Daddies (even though Handimen are very similar). 90% of the enemies in the original, however, were leadhead splicers (shoot at you from a distance) or thuggish splicers (run at you with a melee weapon). There was a small amount of special enemies such as Houdini or spider splicers, but nowhere near the variation presented by firemen, patriots, crows, boys of silence and all the different variations on the standard vox/policemen enemies.

Maybe you're playing the game wrong or you lack the imagination to use the vigors creatively if you're playing it as an actual military shooter? I used most of my vigors throughout the game, and I don't actually see how you can finish the game on Hard difficulty without doing so. Bucking Bronco, Possession, Charge, Crows, the bullet reflector and the water tentacles all were lots of fun and offered a lot of options. In fact, Bucking Bronco is a vigor that specifically counters the whole "hide behind cover and shoot" aspect of the game. Devils Kiss and Lightning Jockey were kinda generic but needed for a lot of fights as well. I don't understand why you would limit yourself from using half of your arsenal and then claim that the game is bland.

Edited March 29, 2013 by Tensei

[Raziellink]

I loved the original Bioshock, even though i was late on the bandwagon. I wasn't sure if this game could match it, so i still haven't bought it and waited for reviews and/or opinions to see if it's any good.

And from what i hear....it's not as good as Bioshock 1?

[Crowbar Man]

I guess that is subjective as to what you want from the game. If you are wanting a good story/characters, prettier graphics, better combat mechanics, etc it is technically far better than BS1 in those aspects.

However, all other gameplay mechanics have been simplified down (or simply removed), and new annoying things added are in to make it a modern day shooter. Don't expect much but lots and lots of combat out of its gameplay offerings, and definitely don't expect any sort of Open World type gameplay.

Its still a very good game despite not really playing much like the original, so as long as you go in NOT expecting it to be like BS1 (or even anything they showed off during development) you will probably enjoy it.

Tons of people are giving it perfect scores, so its doing something right. Just didn't do much for me, but I'm a weirdo apparently so don't listen to me.

Tensei:

Well there's also the fact that being able to backtrack to any place locks you into a particular narrative where all of the levels you pass through have to remain unchanged. Things like the statue getting partially destroyed, or permanently passing through tears to alternate realities don't gel with that.

That is some unimaginative thinking if they can't solve that problem. The places don't have to remain unchanged either.

Also, implying that the recordings in this game aren't useful for expanding the story is just ridiculous. You won't even know half of what's going on if you don't listen to the recordings, and they touch upon some major plot points. The world building and the characters are generally much denser and thought-out than the original.

In BS1/SS2 they were pretty necessary to continue through the game, solve puzzles, or get to certain areas, etc and told major portions of the story. They were also a little harder to find sometimes, and a lot more of them existed. In this game, a lot of them are just short clips of longer conversations that you have to go find the other parts to complete. Its completely optional to even listen to them, and there is maybe one or two that give info on a side mission. Pretty big difference.

I have to play it like a military shooter. The game PLAYS like a military shooter. There is not much of a choice in the matter. You cant just use vigors to do the job. Most of them simply slow down the enemy for a second and then back to shooting. Either that or instantly kill them by throwing them off the edge of things if you are out in an area over sky, but then you miss out on anything they were carrying.

I just use Shock Jockey (machines/people i got the chain effect) and Murder of Crows (people) 90% of the game since its the only things that seem effective. The Charge (brings you closer) and Tentacle (brings them closer) seem useless on larger enemies because YOU DON'T WANT THEM TO BE CLOSE. In the end, I'm pretty much slowing enemies down and machine gunning them 90% of the game while ducking behind chest high walls. Every once in a while they offer a sky rail for a change of pace, but then I just feel like a sitting duck or I can't see any enemies AND your vigors do not work on a rail so. I did start using the Water Tentacles push ability to instant kill during the scene when you were jumping from airship to airship because I just stopped caring about the combat at that point and wanted it over.

Handymen are also rather disappointing, they just run at you constantly and beat on you and you cant escape or really sneak past them or anything. They also have no big impact on story and just show up from time to time. The one recording explaining one of them was sad, but beyond that it just seems like there was supposed to be more to them and it was probably removed. Same with Songbird, the game makes so many references to him and he was shown off in all the trailers. He isn't even in 80%+ of the game and I have yet to fight him (though I did not get a chance to play last night, maybe hes a final boss, I hopefully will find out today). but its pretty lame they showed both these off as kinda new Big Daddy type enemies and neither one turned out to be anything special to gameplay. The only one CLOSE to Big Daddy so far was those searchlight head guys who look like Big Daddy in the Sanitarium (a cool part of the game) but then upsetting him just leads to the area becoming a battlefield with tons of melee goons and he disappears :/

Edited March 29, 2013 by Crowbar Man

[Melbu Frahma]

I think probably the best part about this game in my eyes was the fact that it doesn't give a fuck. It explored subjects that most developers would absolutely cringe at including into their game because of potential backlash; Most prominently, the racism aspect. I think it's awesome seeing developers taking a huge risk like that and seeing it become so successful.

This. I can forgive any of the design flaws I may (or may not) see in the game for the stoning lottery at the beginning alone. It's good to see a game stepping up to the plate to help foster discussion regarding social issues.

[lazygecko]

I'm glad this game is at least sparking some healthy debates on gameplay and how we can bring the medium forward from a mechanics & design perspective. This seems like a culmination from games like Uncharted where they are ambitious in plot and scope but the actual game design feels hopelessly stunted in comparison.

While I'm not a fan of David Cage's games and how they play, at least his heart is in the right place on this matter which is more than can be said for most mainstream game designers.

[Brandon Strader]

It seemed like a good evolution from BioShock 1, it felt the same but had many improvements

[Tensei]

http://www.gamespot.com/bioshock-infinite/forum/this-game-is-anti-american-and-as-such-we-should-not-endorse-it-59916583/

This post would've made me buy this game if I hadn't gotten it already.

[Bleck]

so this is already my goty

sorry other games, there's always next year

[Brandon Strader]

[Tensei]

Found this excellent analysis of the games themes and how they tie into the overall plot: http://peripsuche.blogspot.nl/2013/03/bioshock-infinite-thematic-analysis.html

Obviously full of spoilers.

[RoeTaKa]

I loved the game and couldn't get enough of it. I've just been reading and piecing thoughts about the story and ending etc and although it's quite ambitious I enjoyed it to the end and came away pleased.

If I had any criticisms I'd say that yeah in a lot of ways the game is pretty linear. Compared to the E3 demos I'd say that the way it is now is great...it's just sort of like a more refined version. In the 2011 E3 demo you can hear some of the same recorded dialogue and animations that went into parts of the game, so I'd like to think that demo was a way of showing as much as possible without giving too much away. The combat was fine...kinda expected some battle areas to be much bigger but wasn't that bothered by that, the vox guns felt a bit pointless too but some people like that diversity.

Now into SPOILER territory.I'd almost forgotten but that YES/NO board at the start was a cool little thing to signify how many times Booker has done this. I had little theories as I played the game like maybe Booker was the song bird, there was a room with schematics about its design and how it's both man and machine combined along with a recording. Without any info at all in the game, I'm starting to think that person is important. Also I friggin' loved the scene where you're in Rapture, gave me chills. I also thought as I played that maybe Columbia fell into the ocean and that was the basis of Rapture but the ending kinda shot that out of the window. By and large though I think the dualities in this game were wonderfully handled.

[Brandon Strader]

[DarkeSword]

I totally jumped for joy when they ended up in Rapture. So awesome.

Really loved the ending, and the overall theme, especially in the context of the biggest criticism of the original Bioshock ("You said the choices would matter! They didn't actually matter!"). It's almost like this game was designed as a direct response to that.

[Brandon Strader]

Elizabeth is Gob from Arrested Development

[Brithor]

I really don't understand all the praise this game is getting. It is good, but some people are selling it as the second coming of Christ.

The only noteworthy parts are the beginning (the ascent to Columbia was awesome) and the end (yay! Rapture!), the middle is just meh. It's an "enter a room, kill everyone, enter the next one, kill everyone there" (the Good Time Club "trial" is a perfect example, completely unnecessary) loop broken by Lizzie's angsty moments.

I played in Hard difficulty and found Vigors to be quite underwhelming. Like Crowbar Man, I used only Murder of Crows (for people) and Shock Jockey (for Patriots/Turrets) 95% of the time as they were the most effective ones. Same goes for the weapons, I tried all of them as I found them but winded up using the Carbine/Sniper Rifle combo for the great majority of the game.

Handymen seem to be some kind of afterthought to me, no real reason for their existence and fighting them was nothing special. They just go around Hulk-smashing everything until you Crow them and unload a clip of sniper rounds/missiles on their chest. I liked Patriots much more.

All in all, it's a very pretty, very well produced game. I loved all the musical references in it and the voice acting was top notch, but I really feel it's lacking in the gameplay area.

[Brandon Strader]

[Theory of N]

Oh. I completely forgot I got the season pass. Yeah, where's the DLC?

[relyanCe]

so this is already my goty

sorry other games, there's always next year

this basically

[Soul Splint]

The debt is officially wiped: http://games.yahoo.com/blogs/plugged-in/bioshock-infinite-heads-rapture-upcoming-dlc-180341138.html

[Ethan Rex]

The debt is officially wiped: http://games.yahoo.com/blogs/plugged-in/bioshock-infinite-heads-rapture-upcoming-dlc-180341138.html

Whoa, was not expecting that.

All I see is Xbox Live though. Any news on a PS3 date?

[Brandon Strader]

Some kind of horde mode DLC? ugh major booooooo, booooooooo

And the other DLC is a return to rapture.... well I dunno, seems silly but it might be good. I guess it's worth getting the season pass at some point assuming it includes all of these.

EDIT: Ok, I want the Season Pass so hopefully it goes on sale again

I'm disappointed with the DLC, however. A horde mode, and a return to rapture that doesn't seem to tie into the story as far as I can tell. It seems like an unrelated story, and don't give me none of that bullshit about different lighthouses.

Edited July 31, 2013 by Brandon Strader

[relyanCe]

I'm disappointed with the DLC, however. A horde mode, and a return to rapture that doesn't seem to tie into the story as far as I can tell. It seems like an unrelated story, and don't give me none of that bullshit about different lighthouses.

or you could y'know wait to play it and find out

weren't people JUST complaining about how much trailers spoil plots

[Mirby]

Apparently that story DLC in Rapture is two parts; in the second part you play as Elizabeth, which leads to more of a survival-horror feel.

The reason? Her part takes place on the very night that Rapture falls, and she has to escape from the now-doomed city.

[DarkeSword]

I'm disappointed with the DLC, however. A horde mode, and a return to rapture that doesn't seem to tie into the story as far as I can tell. It seems like an unrelated story, and don't give me none of that bullshit about different lighthouses.

You don't know the story to Burial at Sea. All you saw was a trailer.

And the "bullshit about different lighthouses" is literally the entire point of Bioshock Infinite.

[Brandon Strader]

You're right (on both counts) but let's assume Burial at Sea is an unrelated story that just features the same characters and the explanation is "lighthouses"

That seems too obvious, maybe even lazy to me. I know it would be hard to link back to the original story, considering how that ended, and that there weren't any moments where you could be like "hey, let's interject a segment here" but meh. I'll probably love the DLC anyway, seeing Rapture before it went poot will be amazing, I've been hoping for something like that for a good while now, but I never realized it would be part of Infinite DLC.

I hope they hint at the next game.