Sequenced strumming

[vindkast]

Hey Remixing...

I'd be much happier musically if I could sequence strumming chords on an accoustic guitar. I use FLStudio, but I think this is more a guitar question than a software question. I don't play guitar, so I don't what notes to sequence to simulate what people actually do when they strum.

I've gone through a bunch of guitar tutorials online, so I'm not asking for info on basic chords and strumming patterns (tho if you have tips...). What I'm asking is how to translate those things to sequencing and have it sound half-way decent, or at least not so disconnected. (And yes, I know about the "strumizer" in FLStudio.)

For example, I've looked at midis to see how they do it, and noticed some quick back-to-back strums sequenced by having some of the notes of the first chord span two beats, while the notes of the second just hit very briefly. I think this is the sort of thing I should be looking for?

But any advice at all would be appreciated. Or even midis/files/screenshots demonstrating suggestions or techniques.

[SnappleMan]

Well, it aint rocket science, junior. slap the notes into your piano roll, then unclick the Snap To Grid button, and gently move each note a few clicks from the root till it sounds like you want it to. Make sure each note is progressively later than the previous, because when I strum a chord on guitar, there's no way I can hit every string at the same time.

[JamesXIIC]

There's a "Strum" tool in FL under the TOOLS menu at the top left hand corner of the "piano roll" view.

It looks like a wrench. Open the menu and go to Strum. Now you can alter the different pots to change the velocity of notes and how far apart the notes are (how quickly or slowly the notes strum basically). Remember you need to all select the notes that you want to work with before you use the Strum tool.

It's pretty handy.

[vindkast]

Thanks for both your replies. I do know about the strum tool and its use tho, as I said above. But yeah, it is handy

I guess to clarify, I was looking more for tips like how to make it more human and less CLANG CLANG CLANG. Or C-L-A-N-G if I delay the notes/use the strumzier.

For example, somebody just showed me a way to do the quieter strums between measures. (Sorry, I know none of the terminology.) That's certainly one way to make it seem more fluid.

[SnappleMan]

Velocity helps too. Not every string will be plucked with the same exact ammount of force.

[JamesXIIC]

Yeah, velocity helps but making CONVINCING strumming patterns from single shot guitar samples is difficult to say the least.

I would try and help you further but I usually use my own samples or record from my guitar for these situations. However, if you have some money and will be using a lot of guitars in your work, I suggest getting MusicLab's "Real Guitar" VST plugin.

That'd be a wise investment.

[SnappleMan]

Or get a real guitar... :\

Cmon, for $100 you can get a full pack from Guitar Center. It's easy to learn how to strum chords...

[Legion303]

http://neutronstar.org/music/guitar.it

You'll need a tracker program to actually see the notes and figure out what I did for strumming. I think the kids use Modplug these days.

Of course, this isn't going to help you at all if you don't know strumming patterns on a real guitar. I suggest looking at folk music or classical tablature that shows fingerings and stroke direction.

-steve

[JamesXIIC]

Or get a real guitar... :\

Cmon, for $100 you can get a full pack from Guitar Center. It's easy to learn how to strum chords...

Maybe so but learning to play chords fluently will take at least a month or two I'd imagine. Plus, how exactly is he going to record it? Unless he has a good mic or a sound card with low latency and noise reduction it's going to have a little background hiss that can be pretty annoying.

Still, it's a fine suggestion. If you decide this is an option I'd personally settle for a cheapo Stat copy for your first guitar. Easy to learn on, party to do with their very low action, and they sound decent for low budget.

Maybe a Squier if you are willing to spend a little more.

[RoeTaKa]

Strumming patterns is easy with practise. I just make a chord up, change the start times of the notes a little to get a single strum, if I want it more bouncy, Id place one of the middle notes just a tad before the start time and move into a single strum, which is fun . You gotta feel the rhythm, it gets tiring getting it right sometimes and getting a good rhythm, but worth it!

I usually do it for acoustic guitars, so the velocity is very loose feeling. A nice high EQ to bring the sound of the note more, and whatever bass EQ you feel comfortable with. Guitars sound better with certain reverbs, experiment with different reverbs. Delay is really nice with guitar, but make sure the intervals are in sync with the rhythm of the pattern. If you want the guitar to sound fatter and stronger, just compress it with a tight release.

Can't think of much else to say, just experiment though, different patterns have done lots of cool things for me before.

[Sleepy Emp]

http://neutronstar.org/music/guitar.it

You'll need a tracker program to actually see the notes and figure out what I did for strumming. I think the kids use Modplug these days.

Of course, this isn't going to help you at all if you don't know strumming patterns on a real guitar. I suggest looking at folk music or classical tablature that shows fingerings and stroke direction.

-steve

Thanks!

Modplug_skill +1

[OverCoat]

Ztar, biatch

[Theowne]

I tried to do this once but I could never get it over horrible quality, so I ended up buying Steinberg Virtual Guitarist. Very handy. Far less work, far better sound. But pretty expensive.

[Arcana]

Do you guys actually map out the notes of the strings, as if you had plucked them, and then put them in a strum-like pattern? I don't know what notes each individual string makes, so even though I'd be able to look up a C chord, I wouldn't know how the C chord fingering mutates the rest of the strings.

Or is it really more simple than that?

[Compyfox]

There was a thread once describing all that stuff... now it's gone.

[/silent hill]

[SnappleMan]

Do you guys actually map out the notes of the strings, as if you had plucked them, and then put them in a strum-like pattern? I don't know what notes each individual string makes, so even though I'd be able to look up a C chord, I wouldn't know how the C chord fingering mutates the rest of the strings.

Or is it really more simple than that?

Fingering has nothing to do with the progression of a chord. While the left hand fretting motions are not sequential (meaning your fingers dont fret the notes in the natural order of your fingers) you always strum straight down or straight up. So either line up the notes from the lowest to the highest or visa versa.

[Arcana]

Well, I'm thinking more of what notes you would actually put in a strum. I know almost nothing about guitar, which is why I'm curious.

Let's say I have a piano roll, then, and I'm trying to sequence some chord that the player is strumming. As far as I know, the natural tuning is something like EADGBE? If I want to strum that chord (I don't even know what it is), would I use only those notes in my sequencer?

Let's say that I want to do a C chord instead. You have to put your fingers on some fret, and that mutates the sound of a string and makes it higher or something. I'd have to know each of the notes that the individual string plays, and then put them together in a time sequence that simulates a down-stroke?

For example, on the piano, I can play a C chord with a C, E, G. Would I simply put the C, E, G on the sequencer with a guitar soundfont, line the notes up, and then call it a strum?

As I said, I don't play guitar, so I really don't know what I'm talking about (perhaps I should learn?) and would appreciate it if someone with some patience can fill me in on some of the technical details, or perhaps point me to a good resource that I can read from.

[Compyfox]

Okay, I digged a bit in my archives and my CD backups to find the old tutorial I once wrote after I did some guitar recordings from my electric guitar. This might perhaps clear a couple of things for you. The only problem is, it is in german (and full of typos... I wrote that in the middle of the night and was on a timer - sorry about that).

But that's no problem. Important are the snapshots and a translation which you can read further down. The only thing important for you of this PDF is the text on page 4 and 5. Please don't ask me about the samples.

You can get the PDF File here:

Virtual Electric Guitar - Recording and Simulation Report

Here is the translation from pages 4 and 5 into english:

MAPPING IN THE SAMPLER

Even though the single strings sound good already, it's unfortunately not done in the whole. A proper mapping in the sampler and a bit basic knowledge how a guitar is set up and/or how it is played, is an important foundation.

Setup of a guitar compared to a Keyboard

If you compare a guitar with a keyboard you'll realise that the stringed instrument only has 6 core strings, but the keyed instrument has 7. However if you're only fond of one instrument (for example the keyboard), it can lead to irritations real quick.

Enclosed is a comparition of both of the instruments:

[illustrations]

How can you port the core notes to keyboard now?

The main octave of a guitar usually consists of EADGBE (Octave 1), a piano octave consists of CDEFGABC. Let us now use the low E of the stringed instrument as example.

If C2 on the keyboard is the standard octave and we port that E from the guitar, then the low E (guitar) is in fact E1 on the keyboard. If you continue that for all other core notes of the guitar (i.e. A of the guitar to A1 on the keyboard), then you realise that the mapping on the piano uses up three octaves. Even four if you count in the second octave of the stringed instrument. This is an important foundation for the simulation of strumming and picking via the use of a sequencer.

Simulation of the guitar

An other aspect of simulating a guitar is the way of how you play that instrument. While a Dur (Major) and/or Moll (Minor) accords consists of three keys on a keyboard it can look totally different on a guitar. As example a D-Maj (D-Dur) chord:

[illustration]

While on the keyboard the chord D, F#, A is played (three notes effective), the very same chord on the guitar is played with the strings D, A, D, F# (four notes effective).

If we use the A7 chord as example, then it looks like this on the keyed instrument: A, C#, E, G. On our stringed instrument however: A, E, G, C#, E. In other words four keys compared to five played strings.

[illustration]

If you keep those rules in mind, the reconstruction of a guitar is fairly simple. Only the strumming needs a bit intuitive feeling. So are for example the strings not quantised to the same beat, but minimal shifted. Also important is that the struck strings don't have the same volume - moreover the guitarist doesn't play everything the same way. Depending on the type of playing the volume of the strings can variate and/or are certain nuances stresses or completely left out. So if you program by hand the most complex part is the afterediting of the notes to give them "life".

Here're are a couple of examples of what I could accomplish with the recordings I made and some added effects (thanks to analoq for giving me his tabs for his Stunt Race FX remix):

Several tests how to simulate a guitar

I could have done a bit better with automated tremolo and slight pitching (which is easy with Kontakt scripts now), but I used Halion and that time and I was too lazy to program anything. Still you can get out decent results while mixed into an arrangement.

Else you have the opportunity to use:

- a real guitar

- Musiclab RealGuitar

- Steinberg Virtual Guitarist (guitar chord player/groove module)

For bass there's:

- Spectrasonics Trilogy

- IK Multimedia SampleTank L (Bass Pack)

- B0rnemark Broomstick Bass

- Steinberg Virtual Bassist (bass chord player/groove module)

I guess that sums it up.

[Legion303]

I know almost nothing about guitar, which is why I'm curious.

And this is the problem. Strumming involves many different factors; it's not as simple as it seems. Usually the first chord of each bar is the loudest, but not always. Other chords vary in velocity rhythmically throughout the strumming, down to the individual string. Not all notes will ring out clearly with every hit, either due to rythmic semi-muting with the fretting hand (i.e., the guitarist lifts the fingers slightly on purpose for effect), rhythmic intentional missing of notes with the picking hand, or because of sloppiness or finger fatigue. Individual notes can change within a chord with no picking motion (i.e., hammer-on or pull-off of individual notes within a chord).

When you figure out what strumming patterns you want to use (bearing in mind that for the most part, downstrokes are the accented and louder notes), then you have to shift individual notes accordingly. On downstrokes the lowest note in the chord is the one that sounds first, followed by the others in succession up the scale. In upstrokes, the highest note is the furst struck. If all your notes are the same distance apart from each other your piece will sound robotic, but if you vary them too much it just sounds unrealistic.

I can pick up my guitar and strum out a complex pattern of chords in a few seconds. It would take me the better part of a day to simulate the same thing accurately with a computer. I should know--I've done it.

-steve

[Compyfox]

or use the proper tools, Steve.

[JamesXIIC]

To learn how to sequence basic open and barre chords shouldn't be too hard.

For example take the chord of open C major in standard tuning.

It is:

String Fret

E - 0 (open)

B - 1

G - 0 (open)

D - 2

A - 3 (bass note)

E - x (not played)

So if sequencing a strum you'd use the notes C, E, G, C, E in order of asending pitch. The bass note is always the root note in basic open chords. In open C you'll notice the last note is a major 3rd giving the open C major a very well...major sound.

By looking up all the open chords from a guitar chord book you can sequence the notes in the right order.

For example the 4 string open D major chord does not follow a 1st, 3rd, 5th pattern of the scale (e.g. D1, F#1, A1, D2) - it instead follows the pattern dictated by the guitarist's fingering. In this case 1st, 5th, 1st, 3rd (e.g. D1, A1, D2, F#2).

String Fret

E - 2

B - 3

G - 2

D - 0 (bass note)

A - x (not played)

E - x (not played)

Understanding that the shape of the fingers on the fretboard are directly related to the order of the notes contained in the chord is essential for making sequenced guitar parts sound more realistic.

Using different velocity values for notes, altering note lengths and the positions of note starts can help you make it sound more natural. It's still pretty difficult to get it sound totally convincing but it can still improve the feel of the piece dramatically.

Hope this helps a little.