Blazblue: Rebellion (Ragna's Theme)

[FaytxStay]

Been practicing Blazblue songs for a minute now.

Been working on learning about DB/Level and Compression.

Been learning how to get Shreddage and drums to sound as convincing as possible.

Now I have to learn five things:

How to find a suitable bass amp-

How to EQ two lead guitars and sync pinch bends/sqeuals without ripping out my hair-

What direction I want to take this song in to destroy the conservativeness-

How to recognize chord progression-

How to continuously get better-

Note: (I got as close to 0db on the Fruity Meter as possible. I then threw a Brickwall limiter on the track. Just sayin'.)

'Remix'

https://www.box.com/s/33673i2knh5umibvguhj

'Source'

Edited May 29, 2013 by FaytxStay
Updated Mix

[timaeus222]

If you want to get to 0dB, just use a soft knee limiter like TLs-Pocket Limiter and do compression on your drums.

[Sinescape]

First of all: Nice track so far! I don't know the source, but I like the progression of the track. Especially the mellow part after 1:13 sounds very good already.

Two things:

I am by no means an expert on drum patterns or those complex progressive metal rhythms, so maybe it is just me – but the off-beat metronome-like ticking and the kicks in the beginning throw me off every single time. I think you need more rhythmic clues there to give the listener a feeling of the beat before all the syncopation.

The same happens with the fill at 0:18-0:22. I lose the rhythm at 0:18 and don't find it until the snares at 0:22. I found out by force-counting that it's actually 4/4 all the way through, but the drums try their best to make me doubt myself.

As for production, try giving the bass and the kick drum a little treble boost to make them stand out more. The bass notes blend together to one long note. The second thing I think I heard is a small room reverb on the guitars that I don't hear on the drums, making them seem to sit in two different rooms.

[FaytxStay]

Re-up'd: Cranked up the bass and cut the low of my rhythm guitar.

Now my bass sounds like it's rattling, due to the treble/edge.

Is this the sound you desire?

[timaeus222]

Is it private? No access.

[FaytxStay]

There.

Fix'd.

[Cash]

Here are my thoughts while listening.

-treble on the bass is a bit much, the rattling sounds odd to me

-I also think you put too much treble on the kick

-abrupt ending, do plan on extending this remix?

-the guitar sounds convincing enough

-the snare is also convincing, the kick not so much

-the arrangement is conservative at this point, based on a couple listens to the source

I think what you have so far is sounding nice. I look forward to hearing more!

[FaytxStay]

Here are my thoughts while listening.

-treble on the bass is a bit much, the rattling sounds odd to me

-I also think you put too much treble on the kick

-abrupt ending, do plan on extending this remix?

-the guitar sounds convincing enough

-the snare is also convincing, the kick not so much

-the arrangement is conservative at this point, based on a couple listens to the source

I think what you have so far is sounding nice. I look forward to hearing more!

Thank you! And as for your answers:

I don't like the rattling bass either but other people seem to disagree.

Of course I'm going to extend and completely reshape the mix. I just wanted my instruments to sound in order before I went any further.

I'm glad everything is getting convincing sounding.

I added treble on the kick(10khz). I'll revert it back.

I'll get to arranging, right away!

[Sinescape]

Heheheh, thanks for following my advice so obediently, but the treble boost is indeed overdone. The goal of my words was to accentuate the rhythm of the bass so the notes wouldn't flow together into each other but sort of "tickaticka" at twice the speed of the hi-hats. I guess taking the lows off the guitar has already helped to achieve that, so you can dial down the treble on bass and kick. Although I don't dislike the rattling completely, it's too much.

Edit: The "sound I desire" shouldn't concern you even a bit. Instead, I was trying to give advice for you to get to the sound that I figured *you* desired. If you don't like the result, don't do things to your mix just because I (or anyone) said so. I hope I didn't come across bossy, as that was certainly not my intention at all.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Sinescape
Avoid posting twice in a row

[timaeus222]

Yeah, definitely too much treble on the bass. The kick is probably getting overpowered by the bass in particular. The kick also has a little too much decay.

Rhythm guitars need more power. You might have cut the mids and low end a bit too much. I usually put it at 86~98 on the mids scooping in Shreddage. I also wouldn't cut out the low end entirely. I would only do notch filters where the bass lies. You want the tones to meld, not the bass to be all the low end power.

[FaytxStay]

Up'ed for the last time.

I think I have it this time.

Gonna actually work on rearranging it, now.

I changed the drums, but I may them back.

Removed the lead so that you could hear the rhythm more clearly.

[timaeus222]

Thanks for temporarily removing the lead, it helps. I believe part of the weak power of the rhythm guitars has to do with the sequencing, mainly the velocities and articulations used. For example, 0:48 would be much more effective if you had riffed on the low E string rather than an actual low chord. The low E string creates a raw-sounding chug tone that is really what makes Shreddage special. I think that aspect of the tone usually shows up near 2400Hz. Of course, the real challenge is getting the lead AND that chug tone to be audible at the same time and finding a middle ground for the volumes. Oh, and I meant that my mids are usually at 45, not 90. 90 is the decay I usually put.

The bass happens to be unusually lacking the lower bass frequencies (20~150Hz), not to mention there isn't much bite in the articulations either.

Here are two demos I cooked up that you could listen to for tone-crafting practice (0:12 is the important timestamp). You can decide for yourself which kind of sound you believe is more fitting to what you want to do---clear/strong, or just insanely strong. I would personally try to go for something in the middle, but leaning towards the low end clarity of the second one. The first one is the one I just formulated, and the second one is one I've used and was satisfied with for my Gunstar Heroes remix.

Keep going on this! Once the guitar/bass tone mix is sufficient, it feels really good, knowing the rest of the song will sound the same, provided the sequencing is also up to par.

Edited June 11, 2013 by timaeus222

[FaytxStay]

Timaes, you mind re-posting that second one without the drums?

Edit: I'm not a bass player, but I watched a few videos on things that bass players like to do.

I decided to play with the articulations, "Sustain, Staccato and Slide"(Can't get modulation/portamento to work).

Didn't change much but it sounds a bit better in my opinion.

Here's the bass, separated.

https://www.box.com/s/uouspe14au53ip1vutil

Edited May 29, 2013 by FaytxStay

[timaeus222]

Timaes, you mind re-posting that second one without the drums?

Edit: I'm not a bass player, but I watched a few videos on things that bass players like to do.

I decided to play with the articulations, "Sustain, Staccato and Slide"(Can't get modulation/portamento to work).

Didn't change much but it sounds a bit better in my opinion.

Here's the bass, separated.

https://www.box.com/s/uouspe14au53ip1vutil

Alright, here's the demo with guitar only, then bass only, then guitar+bass only. I wouldn't say legato and vibrato are super necessary in a metal song, but it's good to know how to do it for realism. Overdoing it with attention to detail tends to pay off in the end. Note how the guitar is not always playing chords, and the bass is playing hard on the notes where I would want emphasis.

------

As for the separate bass, it sounds like the bassist is playing hard sustains almost all the time, but a real bassist would get really tired playing all those hard sustains so quickly and so often. I would simplify the bassline and make it something that can be played reasonably well in real life. 0:27, 0:30, and so on are places where the bass is playing way too fast but it's all hard sustains, whereas they should be notes that are less subdivided (8th notes instead of 16th notes, etc.) and more like regular sustains or soft sustains in between some hard sustains.

Edited May 30, 2013 by timaeus222