Rayman 1 Band Lands Hip Hop remix

[Dino Kid]

Hey guys, long time lurker but I thought I'd come to you with this track thats almost done, a few of the synths I'm a little torn between and the mastering is a work in progress, but its ready for some critique

EDIT: Alright after spending around a week on the mix/master I'm ready to move on, thanks for the help, hope you like it!

Heres the link:

https://soundcloud.com/dinokidofficial/band-ghetto-band-lands-music

Don't be afraid to give me some mixing tips just because this song is done

Edited July 16, 2013 by Dino Kid

[jnWake]

The first synth is a bit too loud. It sounds quite dull too, you can add some reverb/delay to it.

The low synth that enters at 0:26 is very unfitting. Everything is super relaxed and it kind of ruins the mood with the distortion. It's also too loud.

The lead that enters near 0:53 is a bit low, but I like the sample used.

I love the section that begins at 1:22! I'm not entirely convinced by the transition that leads to it though.

It'd be cool if you had a violin playing the low lead at 2:00, to mix it up a bit

The 2:27 section needs some bass, it sounds a bit empty.

Overall it sounds very nice! I love the style that you picked for the remix, it fits the original song. I would mainly fix some volume issues and change some synth samples.

[Dino Kid]

Thanks a lot for your input, thats covered pretty much all the issues I was going to point out.

I've automated a filter on that distorted/bassy synth so that its not as intrusive at certain points, in fact its hard to pick out in the mix now but its probably better like that. Still unsure about those transitions in to the main sections though, tried adding a reverse sample to the first one to create some tension.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Dino Kid

[Argle]

Excellent choice of source! The original Rayman is such a fertile ground for remixes, I'm surprised more people don't do it. In fact this inspires me.

[Flexstyle]

Oh man, I'm posting here just so that I don't forget to come check this later. Bug me if you need to--Rayman was my first real video game, and as such it (and its spectacular soundtrack) have a huge soft spot in my heart. Haven't listened yet, but I intend to do so when I get home from work.

[Dino Kid]

Ah sweet Flexstyle, I look forward to hearing what you thhink of it. Rayman is one of the first games I can remmber playing myself rather than just watching my parents play, I played it on so many different versions but 'm pretty sure I never beat it because the damn thing is so hard. Still, the sound effects and music in the game still stick with me (hence why they are sampled in the track.)

[SonicThHedgog]

Was gonna remix this later... well I will delay it haha.

I like what you did here but I agree with jnWake with some of the points he said

[Chimpazilla]

Ok so I love the writing here, all the way through. Really nice arrangement, very detailed and emotive. However... there are issues. The intro string pad sounds noticeably fake in the articulations. It sounds just real enough to require some smoothing and realistic swells. The synths are almost entirely too loud, with no dynamic range at all, and they are very plain and vanilla, no expressiveness on anything (no vibrato or modulation of anything). Everything is dry as a bone. You'll need to start by balancing the instruments so not everything is the same volume. What things should be in front? What is supportive and should be pushed back with lower volume and more reverb? Then you'll need to do some eq work, to get each thing playing in its optimal range without overlapping the other instruments playing. For example, if the lead is strong at 2k Hz, make a dip in your pad and other instrumentation at 2k Hz to accommodate the lead. The bass is really muddy and lacking definition and whoa too loud. I'd recommend a high pass at at least 50Hz and then experiment with removing some frequencies around 250Hz to clear some mud. Your snare has way too many lows, as does your tom. You could do tons of improvement to this track also, using strategic stereo separation. So, still some work to do here, but what a lovely arrangement!

[Dino Kid]

I wouldn't say there is "no dynamic range" there's a little, especially with stuff the arp and the string pad in the main section, but yes its pretty flat. I don't really go for much expressiveness when I use chiptune synths, I like quite a harsh sounds but I can see what you mean, the EQing and relative mixing is fairly limited on this track and I think I'll have another go at the mix at a later date, maybe even submit it afterwards...

As for the the low end on the snare thats just a habit I've picked up from starting out on DnB I guess haha, I still feel like I'm treading new waters with Hip Hop, one of the main things I struggle with is where to put the bass, there needs to be something around 200-300hz but it feels like it does better with a big subby presence below 150hz.

Thanks for the advice and the kind words

[Chimpazilla]

Well I really do like your arrangement and writing, quite a lot. I listened to this four times in a row yesterday. And I didn't mean to be insulting, I realize some mixing decisions are personal taste (selection of chippy synths). But I must say this would probably get a "resub" vote on OCR just due to the mixing. Most of your instruments are fighting each other for space. Too many things are playing in the lower ranges, clashing with the bass. (personally, I HP every single thing in my mix, and I make sure NOTHING is playing in the same low frequencies as my bass, except my kick, and I eq those surgically so they don't clash, and I usually sidechain kick to bass also, to help with this issue). The bass itself is way too loud and needs eq and compression, as some of the bass notes were so loud that they nearly popped my speaker cones out. So, I suggest starting with balancing the instruments much better, first, then attacking each thing with eq so each instrument plays in its optimal range without doubling the frequencies of other things. You'll be amazed how much cleaner your mix is after you do this process, and you'll be able to get it louder overall too, as a result. Then, time to play with reverb to get some more feeling into the mix and also tell the listener how close or far away the instruments are. Also, please look into stereo separation, the mix will come alive with a few things placed wider in the stereo field. After all that, we can talk about special effects! Good luck! I'm looking forward to hearing this one again!

Edited July 17, 2013 by Chimpazilla

[Argle]

The mixing is ok. Bass is kind of boomy, cut the right frequency on it and the whole mix will clear up. The main thing that would get you rejected is the sounds, which are all pretty bland. You could give them more movement, maybe some vibrato on the leads. Think about some reverse cymbals or something else to create buildup and release between sections.

Also, would be cool to filter and saturate the strings at the beginning to make them sound old and scratchy like a mellotron. Then the noticeably fake articulations as Chimpzilla pointed out wouldn't be a problem.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Argle

[Dino Kid]

Alright nice one, thanks for the detailed response guys, always good to have some kick me into gear with my somewhat lazy attention to detail on mixing.

[Chimpazilla]

Argle says the mixing is ok. I say there are issues. And even if it was "ok" it could certainly be better. I can hear this song in my head with the issues fixed and improvements made and it sounds amazing. I'm being tough on this one because I really do like the writing.

[Flexstyle]

I'll check on this one a bit later after you've implemented some of Chimp's suggestions, etc. Sounds like you've gotten a lot of good advice already, and I think it'd be useless for me to pile on. I like where you're going, and I look forward to the next iteration.

[timaeus222]

Sorry Flex.

Likes:

0:48 saw lead is great, just gotta bring up the volume a little bit.

1:23 square lead is interesting, and is on the right track to expressiveness. It just needs more attention to detail on the sequencing to give it a reasonable phrasing. For example, the third note could be longer with vibrato.

3:32 is okay and has a percolating soft arp. It does show some detailed texture. It sounds like the simple lead is sort of trading notes with the clavinet-esque instrument, though the disparate octaves makes it awkward.

Actual important feedback:

Intro strings are somewhat okay, but they would be better with a longer release or just being replaced outright with synthesized pads. The noticeable gaps in between sustains disjoint a potentially smooth flow in the phrasing. You could still BS bad strings samples with effective sequencing. It's been done before.

0:23 saw lead is static and not very expressive. If I were to write that part, I would sequence it such that the second and third notes, as well as the fourth and fifth notes overlap, for example, and use a legato voice mode. That applies to the rest of that melody in that section too. I'd also add an envelope to increase the cutoff frequency on a low pass filter quickly and then let it drop slowly (no Attack, lots of Decay, very little Sustain, and default Release). Right now it's sticking out too much.

0:26 bass plays two notes that appear to be random. It never played that high earlier. Then it makes some sense that it's a new section, and it didn't sound like a new section was introduced. Generally, a bass should be playing in its common range unless it's a Jaco Fretless Bass. That's really one of the only exceptions. You're better off using some other instrument to play those notes that aren't originally meant to be for a bass.

At 0:42, I figured out that it's just a synthetic organ. That's not a bass, nor is it suited to act as one.

1:14 organ harmonies are muddled as closed chords, and would be much more texturally sophisticated if you distributed the lowest note to an actual bass and the third lowest note to a harmony synth. Right now it sounds dissonant because of the natural perfect fifth relationship in every single organ note of this particular timbre (every note has one soft note exactly 7 half steps up from it), which means organ players tend to stick to simple harmonies.

1:23 is extremely loud and overly pushed with the bass in particular. It's very boosted near 60Hz it seems, and should definitely be tamed some more. I'm surprised the snare is actually at a good volume, so good job on that.

The first half of 1:23 sounds nearly exactly alike as the second half. I would have considered putting in a sense of progression with the lead notes and/or a sensible harmonic progression. In other words, there's very little variation on the musical notes. One of the most simple methods of rearrangement is to change the harmonies. It could be as easy as changing a C chord to a Cadd2 chord, just by adding in a D into a C-E-G triad. It just depends on what song it is. Eventually you'll get a feel for what chords make sense in what order.

Nitpicks:

0:11 is one spot where congas show up. They're slightly too loud and don't benefit the mix by being in the center. If they were wider, it would be more effective.

The 0:36 harmonizing sustaining simple synths could have a shorter decay, almost no sustain, and more release for a more percussive tone.

. I want you to watch that from 11:57 until 13:22 and see what you can learn from that. It's essentially what I just said right here.

0:56 snare has a bit too much reverb. If you can lower the wet mix by about 5~10%, that would improve it.

After reaching 1:23, 0:55 sounds like it should be quieter and less energetic, and you could have done that by high passing the drums through automation in your DAW. If you can, just automate the frequency of a high passing band token in your EQ up enough, then when it's time, bring it back down. I wouldn't necessarily high pass every single thing in your mix other than your bass, though. If I were you, I'd only high pass a few things, and if I have some sounds that would mesh and layer nicely with the bass to create a fuller sound, I would just dip down clashing frequencies. For example, a generic bass layered with a clavinet would create a neat buzzy bass.

1:41 just sounds like a mistake to me, as if you accidentally sliced a drum pattern out to clone it and didn't put it back, or wanted to drop out the drums without remembering to put a way to lead the listener back into the song.

2:00 would be nicer with a connecting sound, like a cymbal, noise crash, filter sweep, etc. 2:02 is a troublesome section. You're using strings as a lead that seem to be from a free sound source, and that limits the realism of it.

2:19 saw lead is too loud and too simple. It may be weird to say it sounds mechanical, but it does. If you had that melody in your head all ready to go, it would take about 8 seconds to click it in with your mouse, so it needs more attention to phrasing detail.

2:27 is overloaded with bass like before at 1:23, but it sounds lo-fi now. It's as if you low passed your drums, or just your hi hats. I can also notice the two leads fighting for attention, which is probably what Kristina noticed too.

2:45 is very sparse, especially because now I can hear an intentional low pass, coupled with drums and a very upfront lead. I know it's supposed to be a drop, but it doesn't prepare me for it. People don't listen to songs on soundcloud all the time and people don't see waveforms while listening to songs on their computer or MP3 player (that would be a very cool and expensive MP3 player...) all the time, so you've got to assume that everything you do needs to connect smoothly so you can lead people through your song, like a flight attendant in a plane or a butler in a mansion.

2:55 is a bit louder than 1:23, mainly because of that bass like before. 3:14, believe it or not, gets even louder and even hurts my ears with that resonant bass frequency near 60Hz.

Weird sound effect ending. ...What?

Edited July 18, 2013 by timaeus222

[Dino Kid]

Wow thanks for the huge list of feedback timaeus, I appreciate the attention to detail! Looks like theres still plenty for me to do, but I think it's going to boost my production standard

As for the weird sound effect at the end, thats the end of level sound in Rayman, I put it in there for fun but I'll probably take it out if and when I submit it. I'll get to work on it after a week so I can take a break from the melody, as wonderful as it is I'm a little sick of it