MnP Round 2: Winner Announced

[HoboKa]

Almost a week

yeah that's too long. I'll look into it tomorrow (Tuesday)

[Argle]

Well that was a bundle of fun.

[Necrox]

Well that was a bundle of fun.

I'm glad your entry is a bonus track haha.

[HoboKa]

Since I will be at work when the voting stage starts, I'm going to hit off the voting rules early.

Participants who vote get +2 to their own score

Argle's first-place vote is worth two times.

Argle's submission is a BONUS track, do not vote for it please.

There will not be any 1st place voting rules (meaning that people who didn't vote won't be superseded by those who did); yet a +2 bonus is implimented so it gives voting participants a slight advantage - just not a guaranteed first-place spot over a non-voting participant.

Same rules apply for voting etiquette. Don't vote for yourself.

Lastly, the score that you see on ThaSauce won't represent the final score that you'll see within this thread.

For Clarification

-Argle's vote = 2x and scales down respectively for the 3 places. So 1st place get's a whopping 6 points, whilst 3rd gets only 2 (but it beats 1 )

-Participant who vote get + 2 points added to their own score.

-Non-participants, including myself will just count as regular votes.

ex)

1) If I and other non-participants picked 3 people to vote for: 1st place = 3, 2nd = 2, 3rd = 1 (I think ThaSauce already tallies it this way to begin with...someone can correct me if I'm wrong though =p)

2) If the previous winner votes: 1st place = 3+3, 2nd = 2+2, 3rd = 1+1 ...basically the same as PRC (I think).

Edited November 1, 2013 by HoboKa

[Argle]

When you say my vote is worth 3 points, 3 points for who? The first place? What do +2 and +1 refer to? I find this more confusing than the olde method.

[HoboKa]

When you say my vote is worth 3 points, 3 points for who? The first place? What do +2 and +1 refer to? I find this more confusing than the olde method.

whew sorry about the massive confusion. I made some changes which will hopefully clarify things a lot more. Most notable, is that I decided to make the previous winner's vote just worth 2x and it scales down for 2nd and 3rd place.

[Bundeslang]

whew sorry about the massive confusion. I made some changes which will hopefully clarify things a lot more. Most notable, is that I decided to make the previous winner's vote just worth 2x and it scales down for 2nd and 3rd place.

To make things more clear, I think there are three possible votes (correct me if I'm wrong).

Type 1: Regular vote, vote by non-participants (everyone not stated below, for example myself or Hoboka)

1st place: 3 points

2nd place: 2 points

3rd place: 1 points

Type 2: Argle's vote, as last rounds winner.

1st place: 6 points

2nd place: 4 points

3rd place: 2 points

(Regular vote multiplied by 2)

Type 3: Vote of a participant (Trism, GrapplingHook, Necrox, DrumJ8 and possible new entrants in the upcoming hours)

1st place: 3 points

2nd place: 2 points

3rd place: 1 points

Voter may not vote for himself, but gets two points (which is less than a first place, but more than 3rd or 4th place).

I believe Hoboka will announce the final results when voting is over in this thread, so ignore the results showed on ThaSauce.

Remember that there are still a couple of hours left, so you can still submit a track and not vote yet.

[MindWanderer]

yet a +2 bonus is implimented so it gives voting participants a slight advantage - just not a guaranteed first-place spot over a non-voting participant.

I'm not sure you see that this makes voting a disadvantage.

Say there are four participants, A, B, C, and D. Before A and B vote, the scores happen to be the following:

A: 7

B: 7

C: 5

D: 5

A thinks his is the best, but he can't vote for himself. He ranks the others B, C, D.

B thinks A is also the best, but he also thinks A will get a lot of votes. He would ordinarily vote A, D, C but instead he abstains.

Final results:

A: 9

B: 10

C: 7

D: 6

B wins by merit of not voting. If B had voted (honestly), it would be:

A: 12

B: 12

C: 8

D: 8

So his not voting not only robs A of a rightful tie, but affects D's placing as well.

[Bundeslang]

I'm not sure you see that this makes voting a disadvantage.

Say there are four participants, A, B, C, and D. Before A and B vote, the scores happen to be the following:

A: 7

B: 7

C: 5

D: 5

A thinks his is the best, but he can't vote for himself. He ranks the others B, C, D.

B thinks A is also the best, but he also thinks A will get a lot of votes. He would ordinarily vote A, D, C but instead he abstains.

Final results:

A: 9

B: 10

C: 7

D: 6

B wins by merit of not voting. If B had voted (honestly), it would be:

A: 12

B: 12

C: 8

D: 8

So his not voting not only robs A of a rightful tie, but affects D's placing as well.

That's the main reason why PRC has a first place bonus for voters. Depending on what rule is decided, the voters or the not-voters have the advantage. Since I want to encourage people, and in this case remixers, to vote, I prefer to have the advantage for voters. This system is tricky, especially if two songs our much better as the others. It also gives a disadvantage when there are only 3 songs or less.

[HoboKa]

That's the main reason why PRC has a first place bonus for voters. Depending on what rule is decided, the voters or the not-voters have the advantage. Since I want to encourage people, and in this case remixers, to vote, I prefer to have the advantage for voters. This system is tricky, especially if two songs our much better as the others. It also gives a disadvantage when there are only 3 songs or less.

In last the last round, I felt that the results were unfair b/c one individual actually received more votes than the others yet still lost; it left a bad taste in my mouth and I don't wish to see a repeat of that again. Dishonest behaviour is going to happen regardless of which system you employ, so I'm sticking to my guns with this one.

To make things more clear, I think there are three possible votes (correct me if I'm wrong).

Type 1: Regular vote, vote by non-participants (everyone not stated below, for example myself or Hoboka)

1st place: 3 points

2nd place: 2 points

3rd place: 1 points

Type 2: Argle's vote, as last rounds winner.

1st place: 6 points

2nd place: 4 points

3rd place: 2 points

(Regular vote multiplied by 2)

Type 3: Vote of a participant (Trism, GrapplingHook, Necrox, DrumJ8 and possible new entrants in the upcoming hours)

1st place: 3 points

2nd place: 2 points

3rd place: 1 points

Voter may not vote for himself, but gets two points (which is less than a first place, but more than 3rd or 4th place).

I believe Hoboka will announce the final results when voting is over in this thread, so ignore the results showed on ThaSauce.

Remember that there are still a couple of hours left, so you can still submit a track and not vote yet.

This is exactly what I was trying to say, thanks Bunda for de-cluttering my messy attempt at explaining the system. I think I'll be using this one for the next coming up round.

Edited November 1, 2013 by HoboKa

[HoboKa]

I'm not sure you see that this makes voting a disadvantage.

Say there are four participants, A, B, C, and D. Before A and B vote, the scores happen to be the following:

A: 7

B: 7

C: 5

D: 5

A thinks his is the best, but he can't vote for himself. He ranks the others B, C, D.

B thinks A is also the best, but he also thinks A will get a lot of votes. He would ordinarily vote A, D, C but instead he abstains.

Final results:

A: 9

B: 10

C: 7

D: 6

B wins by merit of not voting. If B had voted (honestly), it would be:

A: 12

B: 12

C: 8

D: 8

So his not voting not only robs A of a rightful tie, but affects D's placing as well.

Yeah I see your point and that would be a pretty crappy scenario. But this one is equally crappy:

A: 16

B: 12

C: 10

D: 7

E: 3

B won b/c A forgot to vote, despite there being an obvious difference between points and perhaps even quality/effort. So apparently A wasted his time competing, despite taking the time to actually compose something. I'd feel pretty robbed personally

If it comes down to a tie, we can always have more than 1 source tune to pick from. Or we can all vote on which source tune to use next. So to me this is no real biggie. I may have a different way of thinking than some of you, but I feel that this is the best fit for MnP. Thank you for your input and participation.

[MindWanderer]

Yeah I see your point and that would be a pretty crappy scenario. But this one is equally crappy:

A: 16

B: 12

C: 10

D: 7

E: 3

B won b/c A forgot to vote, despite there being an obvious difference between points and perhaps even quality/effort.

How would that happen? In this case, even if B votes and votes for everyone but A (which is unlikely unless they're trying to game the system) and himself, A still wins (scores 16/15/13/9/4).

Sadly, with MnP01 deleted I'm not sure who "received more votes than the others yet still lost," so I couldn't say what happened there.

Sorry to not let this topic die, but right now, if there's a week in which I think I have a serious shot at winning, I won't vote, because it would only hurt.

[HoboKa]

Okay, so after seriously looking at the data and mulling over MindWanderer's and Bundeslang's input, it seems that the most logical thing to do is just re-implement PRC's voting system.

Yeah, I know, I'm being inconsistent here, but this is the only solution to ensure the future of this compo. I will also strive to be the best compo host that I can be too.

Anyways...depending on how many people vote for this round (I only have 1 vote asides from myself right now), I may or may not implement the First-place voting bonus, because I don't want to screw over the people who decided not to vote because my original system was just too dumb to work with. But I would urge you all to vote regardless, because I WILL be able to implement the First-Place voting bonus without messing things up.

Round 3 should go much smoother...

[HoboKa]

Okay...we've got 3 more votes. This means that I can impliment PRC's system. Moreover, I've properly looked into the first-person bonus points, which actually means that participants who vote get +3 added to their own score. So again, my apologies to MindWanderer for being a pig-headed oaf

[Bundeslang]

Okay...we've got 3 more votes. This means that I can impliment PRC's system. Moreover, I've properly looked into the first-person bonus points, which actually means that participants who vote get +3 added to their own score. So again, my apologies to MindWanderer for being a pig-headed oaf

I voted (just before the deadline, which is within one hour).

About the voting rules, although I prefer a first place bonus, it is your contest so you decide the rules. Remember, it only matters if 1-3 participants vote (for this round, with 4 entries excluding bonus mixes). But when too many people are complaining about it, it is important to listen to them. It might be fun to post both results (so one with a 2 point bonus and one with a 3 point bonus).

[HoboKa]

Okay, hopefully I got the math right...but it seems like the winner is...DrumJ8!! Congradurations

Winner sends me the next source tune via PM.

Here's the score rundown for the PRC voting system bonus:

DrumJ8: 8 + 3 = 11(voting bonus)

Necrox: 10

GrapplingHook: 7 + 3 = 10 (V.

Trism: 5 + 3 = 8 (V.

If we had used my other system, DrumJ8 and Necrox would've tied for first. Seems to me like PRC's first-place voting bonus is the best way to go.

EDIT

Henceforth this is how I will be tallying vote scores:

2 entries: round is awash and only non-participant votes count

This means: 1st = 3p, 2nd = 2p, 3rd = 0p

3 entries: 1st = 3p, 2nd = 2p, 3rd = 0p

4+ entries: 1st = 3p, 2nd = 2p, 3rd = 1p

Previous winner's vote:

2 entires: 1st = 6, 2nd = 4, 3rd = 0

3 entires: 1st = 6, 2nd = 4, 3rd = 2

4 entries: 1st = 6, 2nd = 4, 3rd = 2

Edited November 4, 2013 by HoboKa

[HoboKa]

Round 3 begins.

Get it here:

http://ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=45344