Super Smash Bros. Brawl

[friendlyHunter]

So I decided to download a Quicktime (.mov) version of the Nintendo World trailer so I could watch the fighting frame by frame (you can step to next/prev frame by pressing left/right)

... WOW! It's bind-boggling how much detail they put into every single animation and effect. It is, to say the least, beautiful. So don't worry about Brawl having bad graphics - it won't. The only flaw I noticed was the crappy physics for Samus's ponytail (it moves like a bunch of cans strung together end to end, and at one point it gets stuck straight through Samus' torso).

Plus, if you think updates aren't coming fast enough... you can see tons of new moves that are impossible to notice when the video's played at a normal speed.

- Wario does his 'turn upside-down' move at one point (and then gets hit by a Mario Kart immediately after, if I recall correctly)

- Link's B up sword spin looks absolutely insane in slow motion. And he shoots high velocity arrows pretty darn fast.

- In the shot where Wario does the potential wavedash, you can really see exactly what he's doing. He does not in fact "crouch" slightly until the exact moment that he touches the ground (I don't know enough about wavedashing to know if that's significant or not...). In this same sequence (a few seconds before Wario does it) Metaknight does some aerial moves and then lands the EXACT same way as Wario - sliding to the left, same poofy smoke and everything. Metaknight lands on flat ground, not a slope. And while Wario stays facing the same direction throughout, Meta does a neat little twirl - before continuing to do a fancy barrel roll off the edge of the platform (or through the platform?).

- The moving clouds in several stages (battlefield, the castle seige) look superb, from the fleeting seconds they are shown in the movie.

- Hell, the animation of the logo looks amazing

- I'm not 100% sure, but it looks a LOT like Snake has a grenade move. In the shot where all the platforms break in the heavenly-type stage, right at the start - there is a grenade-like object falling straight down beside Snake. Snake appears to get hit by Pit from below, and the grenade falls on Pit and explodes. You can clearly see the explosion where the grenade landed, and Pit's on fire when he flies off the stage. At the very beginning of the 'wavedash' sequence, someone is exploding directly above Snake. It would appear that Snake throws grenades directly upwards.

- Several characters clearly do a kind of 'shield-roll/dodge' type move, but without using a shield. It looks like characters, while doing this move, may not be invincible - every time it is shown, the guy is swinging behind his opponent so fast that he's already behind his opponent before the opponent attacks in the wrong direction. I'm pretty confident there are no shields, and also pretty sure that whatever Wario does is not the same as a wavedash from Melee (or at least not done the same way - Wario's and Metaknight's timing are both TOO perfect).

...we'll probably find out all that out in a few weeks anyway =P

[FuriousFure]

So I decided to download a Quicktime (.mov) version of the Nintendo World trailer so I could watch the fighting frame by frame (you can step to next/prev frame by pressing left/right)

... WOW! It's bind-boggling how much detail they put into every single animation and effect. It is, to say the least, beautiful. So don't worry about Brawl having bad graphics - it won't. The only flaw I noticed was the crappy physics for Samus's ponytail (it moves like a bunch of cans strung together end to end, and at one point it gets stuck straight through Samus' torso).

Plus, if you think updates aren't coming fast enough... you can see tons of new moves that are impossible to notice when the video's played at a normal speed.

- Wario does his 'turn upside-down' move at one point (and then gets hit by a Mario Kart immediately after, if I recall correctly)

- Link's B up sword spin looks absolutely insane in slow motion. And he shoots high velocity arrows pretty darn fast.

- In the shot where Wario does the potential wavedash, you can really see exactly what he's doing. He does not in fact "crouch" slightly until the exact moment that he touches the ground (I don't know enough about wavedashing to know if that's significant or not...). In this same sequence (a few seconds before Wario does it) Metaknight does some aerial moves and then lands the EXACT same way as Wario - sliding to the left, same poofy smoke and everything. Metaknight lands on flat ground, not a slope. And while Wario stays facing the same direction throughout, Meta does a neat little twirl - before continuing to do a fancy barrel roll off the edge of the platform (or through the platform?).

- The moving clouds in several stages (battlefield, the castle seige) look superb, from the fleeting seconds they are shown in the movie.

- Hell, the animation of the logo looks amazing

- I'm not 100% sure, but it looks a LOT like Snake has a grenade move. In the shot where all the platforms break in the heavenly-type stage, right at the start - there is a grenade-like object falling straight down beside Snake. Snake appears to get hit by Pit from below, and the grenade falls on Pit and explodes. You can clearly see the explosion where the grenade landed, and Pit's on fire when he flies off the stage. At the very beginning of the 'wavedash' sequence, someone is exploding directly above Snake. It would appear that Snake throws grenades directly upwards.

- Several characters clearly do a kind of 'shield-roll/dodge' type move, but without using a shield. It looks like characters, while doing this move, may not be invincible - every time it is shown, the guy is swinging behind his opponent so fast that he's already behind his opponent before the opponent attacks in the wrong direction. I'm pretty confident there are no shields, and also pretty sure that whatever Wario does is not the same as a wavedash from Melee (or at least not done the same way - Wario's and Metaknight's timing are both TOO perfect).

...we'll probably find out all that out in a few weeks anyway =P

dude, you are now my hero.

[AMT]

I'm totally watching this frame by frame now to see all of that. I just caught the Wario wavedash thing watching it normally.

EDIT: Some more stuff I noticed:

-In the very beginning, Mario's fist flashes like he's doing a smash attack and he hits Pikachu across the stage, except he's in midair. Looks like you can do air smashes now. You can see Snake do one too when he jumps up behind Link and does a high kick.

-At 1:55, Wario dives forward and slides across the ground on his face. Looks like it might be a smash attack, because he charges it up for a second. Then, when it cuts to Pit's stage, you see him crawl along the top, and do an attack from a crouch. It looks like characters will have unique attacks while crouched.

-Awesome call on the grenade move, that looks like that's what that is.

-OK, I'm now 99% positive that that actually is a wavedash now that you noticed Meta-Knight's; Watch him wavedash off the side there. He starts to spin in midair, then techs as soon as he hits the ground. Try wavedashing off the side of a platform in Battlefield in Melee, the exact same thing will happen. Metaknight clearly goes upside-down when he's in midair, because he's in the same "falling" state you are when you get smashed really hard and are falling down and spinning in midair. If he hadn't teched there, he would have just hit the ground like he just got attacked.

I really wish I still had Melee so I could record this exact same thing in it.

[L.T.W.]

And you don't find 5 months a long wait?

Well, not really. Considering that we have already waited a lot more than that.

so you live under a rock and dont know that halo 3 is dated for late september, the 26th im pretty sure

and I had no idea about that cuz I dont care about Halo, I've never owned a XBox and I never will own a 360.

Nintendo FTfW!

[Effector]

-OK, I'm now 99% positive that that actually is a wavedash now that you noticed Meta-Knight's; Watch him wavedash off the side there. He starts to spin in midair, then techs as soon as he hits the ground. Try wavedashing off the side of a platform in Battlefield in Melee, the exact same thing will happen. Metaknight clearly goes upside-down when he's in midair, because he's in the same "falling" state you are when you get smashed really hard and are falling down and spinning in midair. If he hadn't teched there, he would have just hit the ground like he just got attacked.

This is the best evidence that WDing is still in the game. Everything else you two found is really neat too. Nice finds.

EDIT: Ehhhh, rewatched it, hi-res original movie. Doesn't look like it does anything special moving along that platform, just running. But I agree, it does look like his tumbling down to that lower section, but I can't tell if he techs to confirm that, his landing little flash is enormous and obscures what's going on. Count me out on WDing until I get my hands on the game or Sakurai tells us directly.

[friendlyHunter]

Yeah, seems Metaknight isn't twirling on the platform after all, he's either running or crouched-running. I tried doing that in Melee for a few minutes - somehow only ONCE I got the guy to land hard as if he's been hit, the other 100 tries were normal landings. I still think it's quite possible that metaknight is going through the platform - characters flip like that when they go through platforms. Mind you, I don't know exactly what teching is (it involves pressing L and down, right?). Ahh, too much speculation, not enough proof, I'm done here =p

[Strike911]

Mind you, I don't know exactly what teching is (it involves pressing L and down, right?). Ahh, too much speculation, not enough proof, I'm done here =p

Teching is catching yourself on a surface from a previous hit. Hit one of the shielding buttons (L or R) right before you hit the surface and you'll recover and not bounce or anything. It's a life saver. Additionally, you can jump and hit the shield button and you'll do a jump from the recovery instead of just stopping.

[AMT]

TEhhhh, rewatched it, hi-res original movie. Doesn't look like it does anything special moving along that platform, just running. But I agree, it does look like his tumbling down to that lower section, but I can't tell if he techs to confirm that, his landing little flash is enormous and obscures what's going on. Count me out on WDing until I get my hands on the game or Sakurai tells us directly.

Hm, yeah, I didn't notice that it looks like he runs. Here's the teching blown up and slowed down again:

I added a delay right where the animation changes; as far as I can tell, that still looks like a tech to me, but, yeah.

[Brithor]

Can't wait for the next update just to see this boring Wavedash discussion end.

And for the new content, of course.

[Broken]

I'm trying to pick Peach up, but I just can't get her double jump cancel down. Every time I do it for an edgeguard I plummet to an embarrassing death.

Yeah, DJC is difficult to master ( I haven't mastered it myself yet) but it's great for getting arials out quickly. If I used djc for edge-gaurding (which I don't because I kill myself with it a lot, too) I'd do the nair and not the bair because the bair will slide you back just a hair and you will plummet to your death. If you use the nair, you're pretty much garunteed to fall straight down (which is where you want to fall.)

Your best bet with edge gaurding is to do a quick float cancel and then use bair or nair, and then edge gaurd. If you want to look like a bad-ass you can try djc a fair so it hits right at the edge of the stage and rejects an attempt at sweet spotting. It's not too difficult, but it's hard to line up correctly in the middle of a fight.

And, I agree Peach is difficult to master (contrary to popular belief, there's more to her than spamming down smash.) She's slow and floaty, not a good combo imo.

Oh, I just remembered, another great edge gaurd (against space animals, anyway) is to be facing towards the stage right at the edge (as if you are about to WD into ledge hog) and right as the space animal uses fire fox, upsmash, and they will get the tip of your attack which is pretty devistating. I'll look for a good video of it later.

Alright, I'm done.

[MahBoiiii]

Hm, yeah, I didn't notice that it looks like he runs. Here's the teching blown up and slowed down again:

I added a delay right where the animation changes; as far as I can tell, that still looks like a tech to me, but, yeah.

I'm 100% sure that Teching will be in Brawl and that is what it looks like. This is because teching isn't an unintended manuver, unlike wavedashing which was never intentionally put into the game. Teching was knowingly programed into the game and was intended by the creators to get used.

It is suprising how there hasn't been any evidence of shields in Brawl. I thought that shields were a staple in the game's dynamics. But hey the programmers can do whatever the hell they want, and it looks like they are creating a whole new way of playing the game (which is good!).

[AMT]

Yeah, I'm positive teching will be in too. That backs up that that was a wavedash though, because you can't just tech on a normal landing, and a wavedash off of that platform would put you into the tumbling status that you could tech out of.

Just for comparison with a normal landing. That's pretty telling that if it's not Melee style wavedashing, there's definitely some new way / move that gets the same thing accomplished.

[BigBoss]

Just for comparison with a normal landing. That's pretty telling that if it's not Melee style wavedashing, there's definitely some new way / move that gets the same thing accomplished.

Or maybe, juuust maybe, the simulated gravity is causing his fat ass to slide down the hill.

I thought that shields were a staple in the game's dynamics. But hey the programmers can do whatever the hell they want, and it looks like they are creating a whole new way of playing the game (which is good!).

You really think that just because there's been no shielding, they've removed it from the game? They aren't completely overriding the god damn gameplay, they're adding in a few tiny things like they did in Melee and that's it.

[atmuh]

and it looks like they are creating a whole new way of playing the game (which is good!).

new != good

[Strike911]

new != good

good >= new

[Jam Stunna]

Yeah, DJC is difficult to master ( I haven't mastered it myself yet) but it's great for getting arials out quickly. If I used djc for edge-gaurding (which I don't because I kill myself with it a lot, too) I'd do the nair and not the bair because the bair will slide you back just a hair and you will plummet to your death. If you use the nair, you're pretty much garunteed to fall straight down (which is where you want to fall.)

Your best bet with edge gaurding is to do a quick float cancel and then use bair or nair, and then edge gaurd. If you want to look like a bad-ass you can try djc a fair so it hits right at the edge of the stage and rejects an attempt at sweet spotting. It's not too difficult, but it's hard to line up correctly in the middle of a fight.

And, I agree Peach is difficult to master (contrary to popular belief, there's more to her than spamming down smash.) She's slow and floaty, not a good combo imo.

Oh, I just remembered, another great edge gaurd (against space animals, anyway) is to be facing towards the stage right at the edge (as if you are about to WD into ledge hog) and right as the space animal uses fire fox, upsmash, and they will get the tip of your attack which is pretty devistating. I'll look for a good video of it later.

Alright, I'm done.

Thanks for the tips. Do you play Zelda at all? I like her better actually. Similar physics, similarly awesome recovery, but no djc and no down smash spam (well, not quite as good anyway). There's just something awesome about sweet-spotting her f-air.

EDIT- Yay! First post on page 400!

[friendlyHunter]

good >= new

Good is either better than new or as good as new? In other words, new is never more good than goodness itself? Sounds about right to me =)

Rant time!

I honestly don't get why some don't like the idea of Brawl being different than Melee. Want a game that's NOT new and different? I'll give you two: they're called Super Smash Bros. Melee and Super Smash Bros.! There, go have fun, you don't even have to wait 4 months to go play them! Seriously, I can't believe I have to spell this out.... why even care about Brawl if you think it's going to play the same way as Melee? (btw I'm not talking about wavedashing at the moment... though I'd greatly prefer that if it IS in Brawl, it's not a move that's difficult to do AND gives you any kind of advantage.) That is all...

[MahBoiiii]

Yes. I really hope that Brawl has a new style of play; granted, it shouldn't stray too far from the basics of the game, like double jumping, edge grabbing, and smashing. Adding/Removing certain aspects of the game (such as shielding?) will give the game a whole new style of game play.

If you want a game that plays just like melee, then just go fucking play melee! I'm personally looking forward to learning a new style of play, along with having lots of fun with all the old/new characters.

[ILLiterate]

No shielding or a form of block would be the worst move possible in a fighting game

Fucking EPIC update, small armies possible to be made with Very High items on?

[KakTheInfected]

SAMURAI GOROH! YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES! Yay.

[atmuh]

so they took pokeymans balls and ran with them

i actually like this idea

[MahBoiiii]

Oh boy! more pokeball items!

Ya this is a pretty lame, considering it seems like they do the same thing as pokeballs do. Oh well. Nice change of pace from the usual pokemon. Will make for interesting high item battles.

[JackKieser]

That's actually really brilliant. Now, there is a virtually unlimited number of "characters" they can add to the game. All the people we thought could never make it in a Smash game... now have a chance.

Now that I think about it... to please those who have lost characters (i.e., cut clones), they could just be put into the capsules, thus making more people happy.

--Jack Kieser

P.S.: Damn, some people just can't be pleased. Yeah, they are like Pokeballs. Only, you know, Pokemon just sit there and attack. It looks like these guys will be A.I. controlled, from the looks of the jumping Hammer Bro.

[Strike911]

There's no way that no shields will ever happen. Shielding has been a giant part of Smash since the N64. CPU players also very rarely use shields in Melee, and when they do you can't see them. No doubt in my mind that they're still in. None.

Man!! Hammer BroS! Sweetness!! And Samurai Goroh!!

Very cool. It's like an infinitely cooler PokeBall! I mean, if you have to run away from invincible characters, that kills the idea of them being NPCs that fight alongside you. They must be just like Pokeballs, but that's pretty cool still.

I guess this does verify that Samurai Goroh isn't playable though... so bad times, but ... good times too. Interesting update!

ALTHOUGH, i wish they were simple, strong NPCs that would fight alongside you like a regular character. But... meh, its cool... I don't know quite how I feel about this, I know the fanboy inside of me is raging because we'll see a lot of cool interesting Nintendo characters showing up, but then again, we'll lose a few playable characters that we were trying to guess.

I wonder who's next? Ridley? Team Rocket? I would be a happy camper if Team Rocket showed up. Seriously, with the whole "Jesse-James-Meowth that's right" SHABANG! You know, this might be a good idea.

So you know, at first I thought, we were getting some sham of an item, but after I think it through, its actually a cool idea... hopefully there are a lot of little small characters from games that we love in there. I mean, little characters like the Skull Kid, Peppy or Slippy? Maybe we'll see Saasrahla hand us boots, or Zoras, gorons... Toad? the Koopa Kids? Maybe some Pikmin?

You’re probably thinking that a Nintendog is a pretty poor assistant, since it blocks your view, too.

That’s fine. He’ll help calm your mental state.

Hahahahaha.... and why isn't the Nintendog or the Hammer Bro listed as another Assist Trophy? Are they going to make another bogus update with the Nintendogs and just tell us more info that we already know. I hope not.

I'm satisfied though with this update. It's nice to see lots of new stuff like this in one nice update!

[Arek the Absolute]

EazyPInc1 (12:02:37 AM): OMG

EazyPInc1 (12:02:40 AM): out of controll

EazyPInc1 (12:02:41 AM): epic

EazyPInc1 (12:02:42 AM): brawl

EazyPInc1 (12:02:43 AM): update

Thesampsons18 (12:03:23 AM): wtf

Thesampsons18 (12:03:32 AM): Smash meets Shonen jump super stars?

EazyPInc1 (12:03:37 AM): don't care

EazyPInc1 (12:03:43 AM): think about 1v1

EazyPInc1 (12:03:46 AM): but with this on very high

EazyPInc1 (12:03:49 AM): on a huge stage

EazyPInc1 (12:03:51 AM): armies

Thesampsons18 (12:03:56 AM): It is an item right?

EazyPInc1 (12:04:01 AM): yeh

Thesampsons18 (12:04:07 AM): Ok,then it can be turned off

Thesampsons18 (12:04:09 AM): no worries

Thesampsons18 (12:04:48 AM): Wait

Thesampsons18 (12:04:49 AM): So

Thesampsons18 (12:04:51 AM): Are these just

Thesampsons18 (12:04:54 AM): Nintendo characters

Thesampsons18 (12:04:55 AM): But

EazyPInc1 (12:04:59 AM): OH MY FUCKING GOD

Thesampsons18 (12:05:02 AM): Haha

EazyPInc1 (12:05:01 AM): SCROLL DOWN LOWER

Thesampsons18 (12:05:04 AM): Ya i see it

EazyPInc1 (12:05:06 AM): SAMURAI GOHO

EazyPInc1 (12:05:07 AM): OH SHIT

EazyPInc1 (12:05:09 AM): FUCK

EazyPInc1 (12:05:13 AM): NIGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGAAAAAA

EazyPInc1 (12:05:16 AM): FUCK YOU UP

EazyPInc1 (12:05:19 AM): HELLA BAD

Thesampsons18 (12:05:19 AM): wtf though

Thesampsons18 (12:05:22 AM): So are these pokeballs

Thesampsons18 (12:05:26 AM): Basicaly?

EazyPInc1 (12:05:47 AM): BASICALLY

EazyPInc1 (12:05:51 AM): BUT

EazyPInc1 (12:05:54 AM): SAMURAI

EazyPInc1 (12:05:56 AM): GORO

Thesampsons18 (12:06:40 AM): As an assist trophy

feh