18m video on the Amen Break

[zircon]

This mini-documentary speaks for itself. I don't agree 100% with the angle the author of the video takes, but it's certainly interesting.

[Compyfox]

And I say the same as I said at the KVR Boards yesterday. As interesting as it is, it doesn't really clear "How" the Amen Break was created. If it was made in end of the 70ies, there wasn't really that much in terms of electronic instruments, and I don't think you can tune your acoustic drumset like that.

Else it's pretty much basic history which degrades the Amen Break to a "standard loop" that everybody uses. In the DnB scene however, people learned how to slice that material up and mix it with other breaks. Making more out of it (example: Hardstep) than what you heard in the video from Aphex Twin, who was obviously on drugs while writing that song. I won't say that the break is not overused, but the examples could have been better, though.

The thing with the copyrights was interesting though, and kinda totally messed up what some firms say in terms of "license" and "owning rights".

[zircon]

I don't think any particular technique was used when "making" the break. If you listen to the original Amen, Brother you can hear that the drumkit throughout the whole song sounds like that. When you go back to the 50s and 60s, recording techniques were significantly different than they are now, so you had lots of drum breaks that sounded very weird compared to what we have now. Modern recording techniques just try to capture the most accurate sound, but back then, it was all about character. That's why Motown recordings all had a very distinctive flavor.. you won't find any recordings that sound like those today.

[klm09]

WTF, zircon, did your post used to say "better" instead of "significantly different"?! Because I saw that and was going to make this long post dissecting that statement and arguing that they weren't better, in fact they were, from a technical viewpoint, mostly worse but led to a distinctive sound that you no longer hear today. But I guess I won't.

[Compyfox]

That original "Amen" sure sounded way too overprocessed. And I don't think this was "that possible" with an acoustic drumkit alone. So something was done at that time. Like I said, it's a pity that we don't know that.

Then again, else thousands of wannabe producers would make their "own" samples, and not buy sample CDs anymore. However, no musicians gives out their "holy secrets", especially not the trance producers (haha - very funny, hundreds of hours of trial&error and I still can't reproduce your shitty trance kicks! Maybe you use sample CDs by yousef!)

Ah yeah, and "Motown" only got popular due to their "compression/mix/recompress/remix" technique they used over and over and over to get that pumping sound. It's thanks to them, that a lot of material is overcompressed nowadays, cause it was created by so called "high end engineers". There's nothing "good" behind that.

[Chavous]

I don't think you can tune your acoustic drumset like that.

I have to disagree. The recording quality, type of mics, temperature and brand of drum kit all effect the tone of a drum kit, so it is possible to obtain that tone, just unlikely.

The video was boring. The thing is, if the Winston brothers don't care, why should everybody else? It is a high-energy infectious beat, so who cares? If your arguement is "BUT OH EM GEE WAHT IF TEHY DO TAHT 2 U?!?!?". The answer is, I'll sue them.

I'll let you know if one of my funk beats becomes a new underground electronic phenomenen

[Navi]

this is pretty old but still a good listen. the amen was instrumental in the advancement of hiphop.

hell, i use it in some of my originals.

[Compyfox]

I don't think you can tune your acoustic drumset like that.

I have to disagree. The recording quality, type of mics, temperature and brand of drum kit all effect the tone of a drum kit, so it is possible to obtain that tone, just unlikely.

Not at this pitch however. The secret is unlocked if you pitch down the loop, like Israfel did in "Soul Blazer - Tears for a Moonlit Knight". I guess this solves the riddle.

Record it at a lower speed, then play it at 45 instead of 33 and bam... first DnB loop ever.

[Hale-Bopp]

It is indeed possible to record an acoustic drum kit with that sound. There's nothing unusual about it. Like what's been mentioned, different equipment and recording techniques at the time probably gave it the kind of character that it currently has. If anything, the drums were probably just heavily compressed.

Interesting documentary anyways (minus the video).

[Compyfox]

I still say, that there was also some pitching/speedup involved. But oh well... I guess only the Winston brothers could clear this riddle.

For the time being, I use my collected samples and/or loops so I don't need to work hours on sounddesign just to realise, that I'm still far from the sound I wanted.

[zircon]

Dude, it was 1969. They weren't using any special techniques, just listen to the original song. All of their drum tracks sounded like that. Once again, old recording techniques made some WEIRD sounds.

[suzumebachi]

uhh i dunno what y'all are smoking. there is quite obviously pitching involved.

[Compyfox]

Why do I even write if nobody is listening to me.

[Less Ashamed Of Self]

Nifty video... but... it didn't need to be a video at all. Very visually un-stimulating.

[SnappleMan]

You people don't know shit.

[SnappleMan]

On top of not knowing shit, you don't even take into consideration the fact that drum construction was dramatically different back in those days. Drums just sounded different than they do now. They were usually tighter, less resonant and sounded alot like that stupid break.

The main thing that contributes to the sound of that amen break is the drumkit itself, the playing, and the natural compression that would be the result of the microphones and recording equipment at the time.

Anyone who has used vintage recording consoles and mics can tell you that they sound very different from the stuff we use today. They roll off naturally compress certain key frequencies that result in that (now) much sought after "vintage" sound.

So yeah, that drum section is not processed any differently than a natural drum section is processed today.

[Chavous]

^ Hey dumbass, that's what I said.

[JamesXIIC]

Erm.....why the hell wouldn't it be a drum kit? That wasn't exactly the dark ages. Hell look at the synth solo in Edgar Winter Groups "Frankenstein"! That was before the MiniMoog but is still as powerful and expressive in this day and age as it was.

Let's see, the mics were different and the mixers were different, the monitoring equipment was different...it's entirely possible for the sample to have been "played".

Aside from that, I thought the video it was really cool and made a good point. But really how far can one go to enfore these laws? I just hope to god "Rhianna" or whatever her name is had to shell out to blatantly rip-off Soft Cell's "Tainted Love".

Oh but what happens if you RECREATE the sample not using samples? Like say you programmed an analogue drumkit to play the breakbeat? Because you are not using the raw audio as is then it's technically not copywright infringement, is it?