DarkeSword

Final Fantasy VII is being remade for PS4

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I hope this will be released on PC.  I really don't want to buy a PS4.

 

On a side note, I can't imagine what Steam's Workshop would do to this game...

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Why aren't those things reproducible?

 

I don't think they aren't reproducible, but I think what he's getting at is that that kind of comic relief worked better in the old text-based days. If things are fully voiced, animated, etc. things might get really awkward (especially when Cloud's in drag). It was easier to get away with stuff like that because they were just "themes", but now it's going to be actual events displayed on screen.

 

Of course, that would make for a charming, fun game (see: old Final Fantasy games) rather than the new super serious (see: Advent Children). It depends what direction Squeenix wants to take it. It's either going to be serious alternating with goofy (I don't think that's likely, judging the new FF stuff) or super serious, in which case they're gonna have to change sequences like that.

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I hope they replace that hidden flashback scene with Zack with literally all of Crisis Core

 

like you just suddenly unlock another game and you're not allowed to go back to the main game until you beat it

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Yeah I agree! What this game needs is some giant Dewback Lizards in the background and all the guns replaced with walkie talkies.... From a financial standpoint this is brilliant, but much like colorizing old B&W films it just seems misguided.

Edit: to be more specific in my caution about throwing up our hats, I remember much of FF7 but I remember it how it was at the time, brilliant. Looking for Aerith in the empty abandoned city, better graphics won't change the tension or uneasiness I felt while searching for her. However Sony and SE only respond to cash incentives, so if the FF7 remake breaks all sales records, why make something new? FF8 remake FF9 ( I might be behind that one) the point is innovation will suffer and in all honesty FF is in need of something besides its marquee value. That being said this remake isnt a bad thing, but just some points to consider.

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I hope they replace that hidden flashback scene with Zack with literally all of Crisis Core

 

like you just suddenly unlock another game and you're not allowed to go back to the main game until you beat it

 

This is actually a pretty amazing idea. It would be interesting to see how they handle Zack meeting Cloud, though, since Cloud never remembered Zack until much later in FF7.

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My name is Zack and when I played FF7 for the first time around when I was 11 years old, I named Cloud "Zack".  When I got to Gongaga and people started talking about their son Zack in SOLDIER, I was very confused.

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Possibly rhetorical question... what is the problem people have with modern Square Enix, exactly? If we define "modern" as the last 5 years and look at RPGs...

* Bravely Default is one of the very best RPGs in a LONG time. 85/100 on Metacritic.

* FF13 trilogy - divisive and not without flaws, but average Metacritic score in the 80s (Lightning Returns is at 89/100 for 360)

* Type-0 - Probably should have been on handheld, but a decent mid 70s Metacritic score

* FF14 launch was a disaster, but Realm Reborn has been received extremely well

* Multiple excellent ports/remakes like the FFX/X2 HD collection, Kingdom Hearts HD 2.5 Remix, Chrono Trigger DS, Final Fantasy III, FFT War of the Lions

* Interesting departures into other genres like Dissidia and Theatrhythm

 

etc... sure, they've released some bad games too. But I think they've done a pretty good job handling their beloved franchises and also making great games/ports.

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It's because when people think Square Enix, they think Final Fantasy.  Don't look at the review scores, look at the longevity of the entries in the series.  Many people don't care about FF11, a lot of people don't like FF12 even though it is my favorite, no one likes FF13 and people are indifferent about it's sequels.  Everyone hated FF14 until it was rereleased but even still, MMO is only part of the RPG market and a lot of people are indifferent to like it like FF11.  So to many people, Square Enix has sucked since 2001.  Even their second most popular franchise Kingdom Hearts hasn't had a console release since 2005.  Yes, I know that all the handheld titles are essential to the plot, but a lot of people aren't handheld gamers so they missed out.  That's why it was such a big deal when 1.5HD and 2.5HD came out.

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But if review scores are good and the games sold really well, what does that mean? I get that a lot of people didn't like FF13 1-3 but clearly a lot of people DID like it. That's why they made two sequels and the whole trilogy has sold over 10m copies. Even if you look at Metacritic user scores which are generally really negative for no reason... FF13 has a 7.5, compared to 7.8 for FF12. Not a big difference.

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But if review scores are good and the games sold really well, what does that mean? 

 

 

It means that the game, in it's most fundamental aspects, is good and high sales means it was marketed well.

 

Game reviews are, supposedly anyway, more just about judging the overall quality of the game than anything else. Is the gameplay solid? Replay value? Music & sound good? Are there lots of bugs? Is the level design interesting? Graphics? etc. So, I think in that aspect you'll see a lot of high review scores for something like FF-XIII trilogy because yeah...they are well made games for the most part. It's just that for long-time fans of the series, they see aspects of it that are inferior in their opinion to previous entries - these are things reviewers may be unaware of and in many ways are unnecessary to making a fair, objective-as-possible review. Like, it's a fair assumption that people who played the old turn-based FF games would probably say that it had a superior, more player-involved battle system than FF-XIII's. A good reviewer is not going to say "I thought the old battle system was better than this so therefore this game sucks." They're just going to judge whether or not the gameplay mechanics of the game work well enough within the context of that game specifically. Definitely in the case of Final Fantasy, where each game and sub-series has varied drastically from the last, comparing them against each other in a review isn't really fair.

 

As for sales, like I said, that is far from being an indicator of quality. Market something well and people will buy whatever it is on the hope that it's something great. Remember all those people who bought literal bullshit from Cards Against Humanity and were surprised to actually receive bullshit?

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Game reviews are subjective, just like any other kind of review. Even if you try to be objective, the critic's tastes and preferences will color their opinion. So if lots and lots of individual reviewers all say positive things, chances are that correlates with a game people will enjoy. 

 

It's true that game sales don't necessarily translate to quality. Granted. But the combination of high sales and excellent critical response is a strong indicator.

 

Also, marketing can't sell a bad game and it can't buy great reviews. The original Kane & Lynch was notorious for being aggressively marketed, but it was not a major success in sales or critical reception. The new Sonic Boom franchise had the complete marketing package including an animated television series, comic books, and toys, but the games were massive flops and critical failures. You do need at least a decent game to sell millions of copies.

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Final Fantasy XIII games were great and underrated. And it's very likely the success of them helped to inspire the decision to make a FF7 remake. Because I recall Square said they're not going to make a FF7 remake until they make a FF that matches the success of FF7 and I believe they did so with FF13.

 

Besides... ok, so you don't like Vanille, and you don't like the hallways. The graphics, gameplay, music, and story still knocks it out of the park... even if you don't like the game you should be able to see that in whole or part. 

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Game reviews are subjective, just like any other kind of review. Even if you try to be objective, the critic's tastes and preferences will color their opinion. So if lots and lots of individual reviewers all say positive things, chances are that correlates with a game people will enjoy. 

 

It's true that game sales don't necessarily translate to quality. Granted. But the combination of high sales and excellent critical response is a strong indicator.

 

Also, marketing can't sell a bad game and it can't buy great reviews. The original Kane & Lynch was notorious for being aggressively marketed, but it was not a major success in sales or critical reception. The new Sonic Boom franchise had the complete marketing package including an animated television series, comic books, and toys, but the games were massive flops and critical failures. You do need at least a decent game to sell millions of copies.

 

Well, yes, of course subjectivity is going to color their opinion to varying degrees, but my point is that a game that does well critically does not mean it will be well received by fans of the old games because fans of the games are likely judging the game to their own personal criteria rather than examining various aspects of the game's production like critics do - there are varying degrees of subjectivity. It's like people I've met who hate SFIV soley because "there is no parrying" or "it's too slow". These preferences can cloud their vision from seeing any reasonable arguments one could make to say the game is still good in its own way. So while I'd agree that FF-XIII was a good game, I can still see why fans of older FFs didn't like it. Unfortunately, as I'd argue was the case with DmC, popular opinion from the older fanbase can hurt your sales even if critical reception is favorable. 

 

It's also important to note that unlike films, games often have review embargoes on them or cannot be fairly reviewed until the game is already out for a considerable length of time - that happens with games like Bloodborne. I didn't see any Bloodborne reviews online for at least a couple days after the game was out. How many people, who didn't try any beta or anything bought cause it looked cool I wonder? Also, people often don't give a crap what critics think anyway. If it's something that they will enjoy and it interests them (and that mostly stems from clever marketing and hitting the right demographic) they'll buy it anyway. 

 

I don't care what critics will say about Arkham Knight. I'm going to get it because I liked the older games and yeah...the trailers and what not have got me hyped as hell.

 

So I agree that good marketing can't necessarily sell a bad game and it can't get you good reviews, it can certainly over-hype and sell lots of copies of a mediocre game before reviews even hit the presses. Looking at you, Ninja Gaiden 3.

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FF13 is a good game in the same way that DmC is a good game, which is to say that it is not

 

Care to elaborate on this or are we just to take your single line of text stating your opinion as fact as usual?

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nah not really

 

I do think that the whole "the game sold well so it must be good" thing is bullshit, and I do think that metacritic scores don't really matter

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I think a lot of people will end up disappointed. FF7 is abstract enough for people to make up this image in their head of what the game is really like. And the developers' vision is inevitably going to differ from that.

 

Another factor is how Square specifically creates their games to appeal towards a teenage demographic, and they have said as much in the past. Many fans probably grew more lukewarm over FF as they entered their 20's and start realizing that the games just aren't for them any more. It's not like, say, the more insular superhero comic book industry where the creators shifted over time to serve older readers.

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I am excited for this.  I'm at work so I couldn't read all of the previous posts, sorry if I'm repeating.  At the Distant World concerts, I want to say that Nobuo Uematsu arranged the music, but I'm not super certain on that.  I know that doesn't necessarily mean that concert arrangements would translate perfectly as game arrangements, but I'd trust Uematsu could make it work.  I hope they get him for this.  I saw a few seconds of the trailer and I'm excited for it.  I have to start saving now for a PS4 sigh.  I agree with the post about Advent Children voice actors, I thought they were amazing.  Rachael Leigh Cook is a personal favorite of mine, and Steve Burton was great as Cloud.

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Oh no.  Guys, I just had a thought.  We're going to have to see cloud dress in drag.... in HD!  We're going to have to go through the honey bee inn!  We are going to have to have a minigame for CPR.  We are going to have a dolphin launch us 50 feet into the air to the upper city!  There are just so much parts of this game that can't be faithfully reproduced in modern day.  I wonder just how much of the game is going to change.

 

Just a heads-up, but yes, we really are getting Cloud in a dress in HD.

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Possibly rhetorical question... what is the problem people have with modern Square Enix, exactly? If we define "modern" as the last 5 years and look at RPGs...

* Bravely Default is one of the very best RPGs in a LONG time. 85/100 on Metacritic.

* FF13 trilogy - divisive and not without flaws, but average Metacritic score in the 80s (Lightning Returns is at 89/100 for 360)

* Type-0 - Probably should have been on handheld, but a decent mid 70s Metacritic score

* FF14 launch was a disaster, but Realm Reborn has been received extremely well

* Multiple excellent ports/remakes like the FFX/X2 HD collection, Kingdom Hearts HD 2.5 Remix, Chrono Trigger DS, Final Fantasy III, FFT War of the Lions

* Interesting departures into other genres like Dissidia and Theatrhythm

 

etc... sure, they've released some bad games too. But I think they've done a pretty good job handling their beloved franchises and also making great games/ports.

I think it's just because us old Final Fantasy fans want more Final Fantasy. There's a reason folks get excited about their remasters. Same reason Mighty No. 9, Bloodstained, and Yooka-Laylee are getting so much positive feedback and funding.  Every Final Fantasy since X-2 has been a radical departure from what we used to love: vastly inferior music, realtime combat, and severe pacing issues for starters, and often direct control of only one party member, an unexplorable world, and excessive "fan service."  I enjoyed FFX-2 despite the crappy music, but I never finished XII or XIII, having reached parts of both games when they just started to drag.  FFXV looks more like an action game than ever.

 

I think if they'd just swapped the names around, I think they'd be in a much better place PR-wise.  If FFXI and onward had been a new IP, and Bravely Default had been called FFXI... well, we'd still be complaining about not enough new FF games, but we wouldn't be accusing Square of betraying us.

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