Sony PS3

[Gruntguy]

But that's on both the Wii and the Gamecube... and it was mostly made for the Gamecube. So really, the Wii has yet to get its first truly exclusive killer app. That's likely to change later this year though.

Please God, have Metroid Prime 3 and SSB. be good!

...and I don't mean The Coop being God unless I missed soemthing in the book of Revolation.

[The Coop]

But that's on both the Wii and the Gamecube... and it was mostly made for the Gamecube. So really, the Wii has yet to get its first truly exclusive killer app. That's likely to change later this year though.

Please God, have Metroid Prime 3 and SSB. be good!

...and I don't mean The Coop being God unless I missed soemthing in the book of Revolation.

[I-n-j-i-n]

I agree with the concept of pack-ins. While it does indeed make buying an system more expensive, it also gives customers something to look forward to when they get home and set it up. In my case, I got an SNES that also included Super Mario All-Stars + World, which is an pretty nice deal. Give a customer a good game experience for their first time playing, and you would probably have a customer come back for seconds.

That is the precise reason why pack-ins shouldn't become mandatory like they tends to be. Also, a lot of 'pack-ins' nowadays can be relegated to online downloads of old or virtual games. Xbox 360 has a bit of that and they give you Uno and some market points for just subscribing to Xbox Live. The Wii could definitely pack in maybe 2000 VC points just for starters.

And considering how expensive these consoles are already, I think the days of Sega/Nintendo style pack ins are a thing of the past. Again, game consoles literally sell themselves. All three systems have enough great games to not have a single mascot stand over all of it like in the old days. Times simply have changed. And people are buying more and more game consoles even when they're priced at $600, $400 to the Wiimote/Chucks costing $60 to some games costing $60. And yet we're still seeing record game sales.

I personally think that pack-in bundles should include an compilation game much like how my first game was, and perhaps another game that acts as the latest killer app. Future Wii packages could offer three or so Virtual Console titles that an customer could pick, and the killer app comes in the package.

That kind of reasoning is a bit faulty as I would assume that Nintendo or any other company would rather flaunt the individual game sales and the individual marketing of the games rather than push them together with the console.

The former would allow customers to experience the Virtual Console system for free, making them more inclined to use it in the future since if they like it, then they would want more from it. In my opinion, while consoles can indeed be sold by name alone, it is the games that are offered and how you get customers interested in them is key to everything. It begins and ends with games, and deviating from this goal too much will result in ruin. Make good games, make people aware of them, and offer enough at an fair price so that you will have many good customers for the lifespan of your console.

People simply aren't dumb enough nowadays to rely on pack-ins as the only way we're going to be introduced to great games. We're not kids anymore. Also, back in the days of NES and Master System, we didn't have a very good gaming press, almost no TV coverage of games at all, and no internet to speak of. The entire dynamics of game sales do not hinge with pack-ins at all. It's a nostalgic idea that used to work. Though I agree with your idea in that maybe one or two VC or other virtual downloadable games would be a great idea not only for the Wii, but for the 360 and now PS3 having their online marketplace now.

In Sony's case though, they don't have enough games or consoles on the market to really convert anyone though. That is an problem for them, and the fact that people notice the Xbox 360 and Wii far more often because of the very fact that there are more of these systems in the common household is something to take note of.

I don't think that's entirely true. Sony has garnered a monstrous number of PS1 and PS2 libraries and if they can sell them all like they plan to, then that could help with their sales too. Sony has a history now and some people don't seem to realize it. And Sony needs to drive in home the idea that they have a Bluray packed in since that is a major reason to get one for high end buyers or anyone with HDTVs really.

[The Coop]

People simply aren't dumb enough nowadays to rely on pack-ins as the only way we're going to be introduced to great games. We're not kids anymore. Also, back in the days of NES and Master System, we didn't have a very good gaming press, almost no TV coverage of games at all, and no internet to speak of. The entire dynamics of game sales do not hinge with pack-ins at all. It's a nostalgic idea that used to work.

You obviously haven't hung around game stores much, have you?

Anyway, it has nothing to do with consumer intelligence, consumer age, gaming press levels, or game sales. It was simply a way of giving the consumer something to actually use with their new system, without charging them another sixty dollars. It was pure gravy, and the pack-in was usually chosen carefully to boot so that it would be seen as a perk. It put a game in peoples' hands (one that might not be available for sale right away, if at all, which made it look like even more of a perk), showing them what the system could do with a full fledged game instead of some crummy demo, and giving them a use for that nifty new system (remember, not everyone can buy a system and five games with it... or even one game these days).

No offense to you I-n-j-i-n, or anyone else, but I'm not sure why the pack-in subject keeps bouncing around to things other than what it seems to be at its core... giving the consumer more for their money (something that hasn't been done in the game system world for a long time). If it helps, think of it along the same lines as a pre-order bonus. Is it needed for sales? Not really. Would it help sales? To at least some degree, yes. Would it be appreciated by the people buying the system? If it's chosen wisely, most likely (you can apply this to the "sales" part too).

It's an idea that used to work, and it worked on several levels. And frankly, as long as the pack-in wasn't something akin to Mortal Kombat Advance or Total Recall in quality, it would again.

I'll stop beating you guys over the head with my babbling now

[Tenucha]

I reserved the TMNT movie baised game ahead of time becasue you can get a reprint of the very first TMNT comic from GameStop. I think that was worth it.

I missed the days when you'd get a packed-in offer.

I didn't think that would ever happen again. N64 had a few going for it but it was much late rin its life.

I like more for my money rather then spending more so I can be attiquette. (sp?).

PS3 I think is trying that... however it's got FAR more then what I want.

There coping Nintendo and Microsofts achevements/Mii thing now and ripped off "Second Life" essentually and using it as there "Home" thats saposed to be a free program (however if you want to do more you gotta pay).

Now someone answer this... I havn't been keeping up to date on the specs and I dont own one.

Are the PS3 game discs blue-ray discs? Becasue I honestly dont care to own a Blue-Ray reader. I wanna buy a game console not a DVD player... I already have one of those. I THINK the PS3's games are Blue-Ray discs but I dont remember...

[I-n-j-i-n]

No offense to you I-n-j-i-n, or anyone else, but I'm not sure why the pack-in subject keeps bouncing around to things other than what it seems to be at its core... giving the consumer more for their money (something that hasn't been done in the game system world for a long time). If it helps, think of it along the same lines as a pre-order bonus. Is it needed for sales? Not really. Would it help sales? To at least some degree, yes. Would it be appreciated by the people buying the system? If it's chosen wisely, most likely (you can apply this to the "sales" part too).

It's an idea that used to work, and it worked on several levels. And frankly, as long as the pack-in wasn't something akin to Mortal Kombat Advance or Total Recall in quality, it would again.

If it's a preorder bonus, then it isn't much of a pack-in at all. Though I think the preorders are a great idea in the way the Japanese has done that even with their music CDs such as limited edition or limited print casing and small trite goodies that would be further the incentive to get it early while supplies last (as they don't last long. Music CD, DVD and Game editions sell out within days even if they're not that good).

And by the mentioning of the press in the way pack ins used to be received, I was talking more about the buzz factor back in the old days.

But ultimately, I don't think that game companies really are up to pandering to their audience like they used to. Because in the early days of gaming, people needed to have a stronger case to jump in and try out new systems. Because console gaming was new to most people, they needed to have a game in there or else it wouldn't create a good first impression. Nowadays, I just do not think there has to be that 'break in' game or an avatar of the system such as Mario or Sonic or Crash Bandicoot to put in as a service for the newcomers. Also, with most of the best games nowadays coming from the 3rd party, I don't think it makes sense for game console companies to offer excessive favoritism as they're always up to courting the 3rd parties.

I think pack ins could be a good service too, but I just don't think it's really worth much in terms of public image as a gaming company. Like with Wii Sports or Uno or some other well made but tech-demo-esque games, I think that'll further be the norm the more lucrative game business gets. Since the demand and the core knowledge of the games is so huge that they don't need to push that extra in there to 'service' the gaming customers. The only service the companies need to get is the sales. I just don't see what's in it for the game companies to go through with that.

[Evilhead]

Yes, they are blu-ray disks. People keep going on and on about how they don't need a blu-ray player, but forget that the 50+ gigs of game data these things can and do hold.

[The Coop]

Um, weren't we in another thread just a few minutes ago?

No offense to you I-n-j-i-n, or anyone else, but I'm not sure why the pack-in subject keeps bouncing around to things other than what it seems to be at its core... giving the consumer more for their money (something that hasn't been done in the game system world for a long time). If it helps, think of it along the same lines as a pre-order bonus. Is it needed for sales? Not really. Would it help sales? To at least some degree, yes. Would it be appreciated by the people buying the system? If it's chosen wisely, most likely (you can apply this to the "sales" part too).

It's an idea that used to work, and it worked on several levels. And frankly, as long as the pack-in wasn't something akin to Mortal Kombat Advance or Total Recall in quality, it would again.

If it's a preorder bonus, then it isn't much of a pack-in at all. Though I think the preorders are a great idea in the way the Japanese has done that even with their music CDs such as limited edition or limited print casing and small trite goodies that would be further the incentive to get it early while supplies last (as they don't last long. Music CD, DVD and Game editions sell out within days even if they're not that good).

I think you took that a bit too literally

I didn't mean a direct comparison to a pre-order bonus, but rather the concept behind it... getting something extra that may not be needed, but it's nice to get and adds more value and entertainment (and usefulness?) to what you bought. System pack-ins and pre-order bonuses are different by nature and how you get them, but they're at least somewhat similar in purpose. That's what I was getting at.

[I-n-j-i-n]

I agree that the overall concept of at least portraying more value to the package is one of the reasons why pack-ins worked before.

Then again, look at the consoles themselves nowadays and PS3 can play Bluray (which is a substantial factor considering that just about all major movie releases nowadays have Bluray versions), the Wii has a bevy of channel options, Mii aspect and others beyond the pack-in of Wii Sports, and 360 has the whole customizable soundtracks and entertainment center value even without factoring in the Xbox Live service.

[The Coop]

I agree that the overall concept of at least portraying more value to the package is one of the reasons why pack-ins worked before.

Then again, look at the consoles themselves nowadays and PS3 can play Bluray (which is a substantial factor considering that just about all major movie releases nowadays have Bluray versions), the Wii has a bevy of channel options, Mii aspect and others beyond the pack-in of Wii Sports, and 360 has the whole customizable soundtracks and entertainment center value even without factoring in the Xbox Live service.

With the exception of the Wii, there's not a lot to do with the system you bought unless you fork out more dough (except browse, but your PC does that already). That's probably the biggest thing I miss about pack-in games. I mean sure, Altered Beast wasn't exactly ground breaking, and neither was Sol-Feace or even Super Mario World. But they were fun, "free", and made your new game system usable before you even got it out of the box with no extra cash having to be handed over. I miss that kind of thing.

...

I'm reiterating again, aren't I? Time for bed I think.

[Evilhead]

With the exception of the Wii, there's not a lot to do with the system you bought unless you fork out more dough (except browse, but your PC does that already). That's probably the biggest thing I miss about pack-in games. I mean sure, Altered Beast wasn't exactly ground breaking, and neither was Sol-Feace or even Super Mario World. But they were fun, "free", and made your new game system usable before you even got it out of the box with no extra cash having to be handed over. I miss that kind of thing.

...

I'm reiterating again, aren't I? Time for bed I think.

Well I think we all know what you're saying. Getting a free game or two with your system is never a bad thing, but from a business perspective I can see why the companies stopped doing it. Yes, it costs them a couple bucks to print up a game, and that little burst of joy the consumer gets might be beneficial somehow, but that's a lot of lost software revenue. Who's going to shell out $300 or whatever for a new game console and not buy at least ONE game to play right away? I usually buy at least two when I get a new system. Multiply that by 2 million or however many consoles sell at launch and that's a lot of money. Considering that both Microsoft and Sony are losing money on each system they sell they have to start making that up right away. And if you include a free game, especially if it's a good one, then that's a lot of lost potential sales.

[I-n-j-i-n]

^

Aside from lost revenue even, it's not like Sony or Microsoft to push pack-ins just for the sake of doing so. Nintendo also has become somewhat lax in that regard except for the way they completely ported over Twilight Princess with the controls. Stars have to align so that great games can be made just in time for the system launch too. I just don't think most game companies would risk putting out a game that won't be as easily received as it could have in the past. Also, games nowadays with the newer consoles can never really tap into the full power of the system at launch. Games in the 8 bit and 16 bit era were more easier to develop and utilize the systems' potential. It's much harder to untap the potential of the graphics and all the perks of a system right at launch.

Also note that this is why people pay more attention to launch titles now more than ever. I don't think the very term "launch title" was even used in the Playstation era. And the game companies themselves seems to perpetrate the line of 'launch titles' so that they don't have to worry about pack-ins and other heavy endorsement of a game

[Zutnunzor]

My cousin just recently put Linux on his PS3 and its pretty sweet. Don't know about other systems, but I'm having a blast with it.

[Bahamut]

Whoa big thread merge. So nobody has thoughts on Playstation Home?

[Devyn]

Yeah, I do. The name. It should be called "Playstation Playland" or something like that. Seriously. Maybe "Playzone" or "Playground?"

[Baleshadow]

Playstation Home looks okay, but I am far more intrigued by LittleBigPlanet.

[Zutnunzor]

Playstation Home looks okay, but I am far more intrigued by LittleBigPlanet.

Game is cute. Movie and screenshots right here

[Blake]

Game is cute. Movie and screenshots right here

Wow. Awesome. Looks straight out of a disney/pixar movie. The music is great. And I love side scrolling platformers.

EDIT: I really wanna play this game. If the PS3 comes down in price in the future I might just buy one.

[sgx]

Little Big Planet. Holy shit that looks awesome. I want PS3 now.

[Soma]

I do want a ps3 now, I'm not sure why though. Home sounds like a good waste of time. It reminds me of the Clubs in Test Drive Unlimited (xbox360 though i think coming to ps3) where it's just you and your friends (or their avatars really) hanging out in a room, it was just glorified voice chat but it was amusing. Little Big Planet looks really impressive too. I want it for MGS4 and hopefully another Zone of the Enders also. But I'm still going to wait until the end of the year because i need to pay off my HDTV and some other things.

[The Unsung Plumber]

and hopefully another Zone of the Enders

I need another ZOE.

[The Damned]

So... why is it that people bitch and complain about how kiddy Nintendo games are, but fucking orgasm over LittleBigPlanet like it's some sort of lesbian orgy?

Let's see...

1. It's a game where little dolls run around.

2. It's set in a world made up of toys, blocks and stylized cartoon drawings.

3. The music is whimsical and sounds like it would fit in perfectly on an episode of Azumanga Daioh or one of those short-lived Disney cartoons you see on Family Channel.

I'm not seeing how this is any different. Where's Evilhead? He should have some interesting reasons how this is completely different and better.

[SilverStar]

So... why is it that people bitch and complain about how kiddy Nintendo games are, but fucking orgasm over LittleBigPlanet like it's some sort of lesbian orgy?

Let's see...

1. It's a game where little dolls run around.

2. It's set in a world made up of toys, blocks and stylized cartoon drawings.

3. The music is whimsical and sounds like it would fit in perfectly on an episode of Azumanga Daioh or one of those short-lived Disney cartoons you see on Family Channel.

I'm not seeing how this is any different. Where's Evilhead? He should have some interesting reasons how this is completely different and better.

Easy! Because it's high def! Everyone knows that!

And maybe because they give you a bit more control than one would expect from a game for a Nintendo system, currently. The whole loading images and data from the hard drive, and having everything look so smooth is part of the reason.

But, that's coming from someone who happens to like those kind of casual sandbox games.. though I do hate the whole Sims series, because they work too hard to force you to stick to a schedule, lest you up and die.

[sephfire]

Finally, the PS3 is starting to look appealing again.

The last time I thought "man, I must have a PS3" was back in 2005 after E3 where they first unveiled it. Ever since that gorgeous display, it's been almost nothing but disappoinment. In 2005, the PS3 had my interest over any other. But by release day, Sony had whittled my enthusiasm down to apathy.

But now, at last, the PS3 is starting to look appealing again. I think that might be some of the reason some people are fawning over Home and LittleBigPlanet. We've been wanting desperately to love the PS3, and now we might finally have a reason.

I'm loving my Wii and my Xbox360, but a small part of my heart has been aching to see the PS3 recover and bring some unique thrills of its own.

[SleazyC]

Does anyone know anything about homebrew stuff for PS3 vs 360 yet? One of the things that made the last generation so cool was all the fun stuff you could do after you modded it (or disc swapped if you were a cheap bastard like me). You know, emulators, movie players, internet browsers... operating systems... etc. Others (*coughXerolcough*) say that the PS3 is likely to be the console of choice for homebrewers, but I find this EXTREMELY unlikely thanks to the ridiculous CPU architecture of the Cell, whereas, if I'm not mistaken, the 360 is still based on PC architecture, correct?

But then again I don't know shit.

You can already run emulators, media players, web browsers, etc on a PS3 with the option to install one of the various flavors of Linux. The problem is that when running a separate OS you do not have access to the RSX so any type of video acceleration is a no go. When using a media player you have to use software-rendered full screen and playback suffers depending on your resolutions and bitrates. I was able to full screen SD Xvid encoded video files but trying to full screen h.264 or HD encoded video files resulted in choppy playback.

I was able to get Snes9x up and running with some minor sound problems as well as MAME up and running with the same sound problems. If anyone ever goes about optimizing software to use an SPE to handle things like video acceleration the PS3 could easily substitute as an HTPC. At the moment the lack of optimization and lack of access to RSX kills most of its value.