Neo-Nut Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 Hi folks I hope you can help me with this life & death problem !!! When using FM Drive to replicate the Thunderforce IV instruments for the life of me I cannot get the same tone ( intro to Metal squad for example) on FM drive it sounds like square wave with white noise - it sounds much closer on YM2612 & Genny but they are crazy buggy and don't respond to Midi CC's (mod wheel) Is there something I'm missing here or is it the limitation of emulation? If you mute all the channels on winamp except channel 1 you hear a big thick chunky FM guitar (is this possibly doubled on the same channel ?) It's that I cannot get & I have tried every TFI file I have as well as extracting my own. You hear the difference mostly on the fake palm mutes as on the actual track it sounds fat and meaty & percussive but it does not sound like this at all on FM drive? How can in_VGM replicate this easily and sound so good but 3 VST plugins cannot ? seems weird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteo Xavier Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 First off, chill out, this is not a life and death problem. I respect your exuberance, but you're focusing too highly on it and I'll tell you why. Second off, yes, it could have something to do with the limitation of emulation and just the basic simple problem of recreation from synth alone. Emulated synthesizers often only sound like the real thing at the forefront - most of us who aren't pros are satisfied with it, but people with great listening talent find they don't compare up. I'm not personally familiar with FM Drive or Genny (I do have YM2612 though), but even hardcore professional synth emulations like Arturia don't always match up to the real things they are emulating. Third off, FM synthesis is famously hard to program and it doesn't surprise me at all that you're having trouble recreating it. I'm not an FM synth guru so I don't know if YM2612 programming is as hard as that holds up to, but I think that's the summary and the real cause of your problem here. I don't have a very helpful solution for you, I'm just reassuring you that you are not really the problem there and that much of it really is just the limitations of what you're working with. Keep practicing, keep looking for tutorials and asking around synth forums and you will get closer to your goal there. Neo-Nut 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo-Nut Posted July 6, 2016 Author Share Posted July 6, 2016 Sorry metro, I was joking ! Anyway thanks for the advice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteo Xavier Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 Metro? Been a while since someone called me that, but it still confuses me... unless it's a typo, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garpocalypse Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 I use FMdrive as well. Can you post an example on soundcloud of what you have created with it? I can't believe it would be faulty emulation on FMdrive's part because it's extremely close to the original outside of some really minor differences. Metal squad was the title screen so there was no juggling of the chip's maximum polyphony of six voices outside of the song itself. I haven't analyzed thunder force's music yet (no idea why either)but assuming one voice for the other instruments (Kick, Snare, Distant Guitar in the BG, Lead Guitar) then you actually have 2 voices to get that rhythm guitar assuming no juggling for polyphony. Even though something like this would be double tracked to be stylistically correct, I don't think it was in the source to save voices. It does sound extremely narrow for a rhythm guitar. However, I'm guessing what you are hearing is actually the FM bass making up the vast majority of the impression that is that rhythm guitar. In general , the depth of the rhythm guitar is far more dependent on the bass than any metal guitarist would actually have you believe so focus on that and see if it works. I might give this recreation a shot sometime today or tomorrow and see what I can come up with as well. Neo-Nut 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo-Nut Posted July 6, 2016 Author Share Posted July 6, 2016 Hi Metal Squad is actually stage 8 , your thinking of 'Lightning strikes' which is the title screen, and the intro is just 1 channel - no bass I checked it on winamp by muting the channels I'd love to hear if you could replicate this intro (doesn't have to be perfect but the tone is the most important thing) I'm a bit bummed cause I love Aly James stuff and rally really wanted to use FM drive, it's just odd that I can import the same bank into VOPM and it's 99% perfect (YM2151 I know) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo-Nut Posted July 6, 2016 Author Share Posted July 6, 2016 Hmmm maybe it's the white noise sounding guitar TFI with the dx style (not the metallic one) bass at the same time on one channel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garpocalypse Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Messed around with FMDrive and landed on this. Didn't put a ton of focus into getting the notes articulated right but I think it's fairly close. Breakdown of what's used at the end. I was surprised that the rhythm guitar actually made up as much of the total sound as it did. A layered bass was only used as a secondary and was an octave higher than the rhythm guitar. For fun I here it is double tracked Neo-Nut 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo-Nut Posted July 7, 2016 Author Share Posted July 7, 2016 Woah ! Nice one dude What TFI pack and what instruments number? I'm using The OPM pack for VOPM Ins 3 & 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo-Nut Posted July 7, 2016 Author Share Posted July 7, 2016 Solved ! Garpocolypse you absolute genius ! It was ME in the end, user error - I was not selecting the correct combo of Guitar instruments - Solved now Thanks so much I owe you one ! Garpocalypse 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garpocalypse Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Glad it ended up working out for ya! Neo-Nut 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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